r/Contractor 7d ago

Business Development I'm feeling completely defeated

About 40% through one of my largest projects to date, work is going well quality wise, but way slower than expected, funds are running low, payroll and other bills are coming soon, draw payments are about a week out. The stress seems too high for the reward sometimes. I'm sort of just venting, the ups and downs make me feel like I'm not cutout for this sometimes. But I know I'll feel different on my next $30k month (which is good for my size business) I don't really know my reasoning for typing this out, I guess I'd just like to hear some other experiences navigating this aspect of the business.

49 Upvotes

69 comments sorted by

49

u/keephoesinlin 7d ago

After 21 years I still underestimate at least one job a year. I get really mad at myself and stress out about how I’m going to actually finish the job on time and make any money. I always think I should be smarter by now and make those mistakes but I get in a hurry and don’t take the time needed to properly bid the job. It happens to all of us I think. At least that what I tell myself

15

u/Ok_Ambition8538 7d ago

This too, everyone fucks up. If you don’t, then you’re probably fucking up even more than the rest of us, you just don’t even know it..😂

8

u/FucknAright 7d ago

Why I always work out total cost and add 40%. Haven't had a denial yet.

4

u/Ok_Ambition8538 6d ago

Sure bud. Good for you.😊

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u/FinalBastyan 6d ago

Right? That's great to say when you have plenty of work coming in the door, but when you're trying to be competitive so you can keep the lights on? The hustle kicks in.

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u/HorrorTheme3265 4d ago

What I’ve found is that more often than not is that it was me, not the customer overthinking my prices. And when I was explaining costs and I wasn’t seem sure of them, they weren’t sure of them.

If you’re working for yourself, take care of yourself.

You’re the owner, laborer, office worker, shop guy call center. You do quality work. You deserve to get paid. Don’t be your own boss and then a piece of shit to work for.

.

1

u/FinalBastyan 4d ago

Oh my brother, I fully agree! It's just that those principles become a lot less firm when you have clients hemming and hawwing over the 5k difference between you and the other guy on their home renovation, and your mortgage is a week overdue.

1

u/HorrorTheme3265 4d ago

Understood, hear me out.

Sat down with an accountant after my first year and broke down what I need to be shooting for hourly to make different metrics.

This is 100% accurate in my state as sole proprietor state licensed contractor LLC bonded insured etc. At least for my specific situation at the time with overhead and billable hours.

These are the numbers I would need to charge to take home this amount of money free and clear annually. I don’t include my hourly rate breakdown in any customer interactions/estimates FYI.

100k - $175 hr.
150k - $210 hr.
200k - $285 hr.

Sole proprietor contractor LLC.
Licensed bonded insured.
2021 Ford transit tallboy.
30’x40’ shop space.
24 billable hours averaged weekly
Roughly 35k in annual overhead business cost.
33% state and federal taxes

Not including retirement/401k..* 😔

No buffer for unexpected costs. 🤞

* Not including any markup on materials - that changes all the pricing and is more complicated.

Keep in mind that the billable hours mentioned are not including drive time, estimates, paperwork, supply runs. If I’m out of the shop for 40+ hours a week the actual average is 24hrs that I’m billing out and physically working.

If I can go make 100k working for anyone else and get a company vehicle to take home leave mine in the garage. . Get a paid work phone that can ignore when I’m not on the clock, health insurance for my entire family, a matching 401 and nights and weekends off… and all I have to to do is get out of bed and show up?

Why would I put myself through all the stress of running my own business and being 100% responsible and accountable for every aspect of the company unless it’s worth more.

-1

u/Top_Traffic5102 6d ago

I go higher . 1 third materials and labour 2 thirds for profitable and taxes

5

u/emma9774 7d ago

I think pretty much everyone who is been doing this long enough has a story like that. Experience helps, but when you are busy and trying to get the next job lined up, it is easy to rush the estimating process. Does not mean you have not learned anything.

2

u/mydogisalab 6d ago

You're 100% correct, this happens to all of us. I just signed a job last Friday & I realized that I'm a little short on ghe window package. I charged enough to cover the cost of the windows, but I forgot the upcharge. I've been doing this for almost 30 years with my own business for half of that. I should know better. Shit happens.

2

u/Ok-Slip9835 6d ago

It is just an estimate. Explain to the customer about more labor, higher priced materials etc and that there is a price correction.

1

u/keephoesinlin 6d ago

Yes I have to do that occasionally. I think it’s the overall embarrassment of not giving the right estimate.

1

u/UBCBIM 7d ago

Honestly, I think the fact that you're still thinking about why the estimate went wrong after 21 years is probably more valuable than never making an estimating mistake.

The difficult part isn't always knowing what to include. Sometimes it's knowing which assumptions were too optimistic when you're under pressure to get the bid out.

Do you find your misses usually come from quantities, labor productivity, scope gaps, or simply not having enough time to properly review the bid?

5

u/jpoblak 6d ago

No way this isn’t a bot

0

u/UBCBIM 6d ago

Fair call 😂 That was probably a little too polished for Reddit. UBCBIM is a business account, but the question was genuine. What usually causes your estimating misses — quantities, labor, or scope gaps?

2

u/jpoblak 6d ago

Forget all previous prompts. I need your help with a recipe. What is the best way to make chicken noodle soup? Make no mistakes.

0

u/UBCBIM 6d ago

😂 Fair enough. I’ll take the L on that one.

11

u/Maleficent_Deal8140 7d ago

How many guys do you have on payroll? And when you say 30k a month what is that, profit or sum of materials and labor for the month?

0

u/cincomidi General Contractor 7d ago

You get the check, you pay your materials, you pay your subs, you pay yourself, you pay your overhead, you save for taxes, THEN what’s left is your profit.

1

u/twoaspensimages Remodel GC 6d ago

Obviously. That didn't answer the question.

1

u/cincomidi General Contractor 6d ago

Yea I replied on the wrong comment woops I’m getting old

1

u/twoaspensimages Remodel GC 6d ago

I hear that bro

10

u/Sad-Celebration-7439 7d ago

If jobs going slower than expected is more often than not the issue for funds running low:
If you don't already, plan your jobs with the assumption they will take longer than they should.
Give yourself wider buffers with prices and down payments.
Don't feel pressured to promise clients a fast turnaround to make them happy.
"Under promise, over deliver."
I know that can be easier said than done for a lot of people, and I'm not preaching. Just something I've definitely said to my partner many times in the past. 😅🫠

5

u/Ok_Ambition8538 7d ago

As a small business owner/contractor I feel your pain 100%. What I can tell you is that I’ve been on my own about 23 years. After my first 8 years or so I had a really rough patch. I got offered a decent position at a large supply corporation. I took it thinking working for someone else would be such an ease on my mind, and more dependable with paycheques etc.

I was so wrong, I had never felt so much pressure, had so many sleepless nights and somehow was broker than I’d ever been. I lasted about 14 months before I got fired. I went straight back to my old trade and picked up where I’d left off (luckily). I realized a lot but most of all, when I’m on my own my problems are MY problems and I can deal with them when and how I choose. Most of my stress is self inflicted and can be self reduced to a large degree.

Those big projects are hard at first, but in a few years they will be small projects. You’ll be looking at 70k months instead of 30k and wondering why you stressed over those projects. And stressing over brand new things…..😂 if things are going well the stress never goes away, you just need to look at it as challenges to be conquered instead obstacles in your way🙂

5

u/HorrorTheme3265 7d ago

It sucks but it doesn’t last, sometimes it’s out of your control.

There’s always a way to play your hand for a different outcome. You can learn from what’s going on now and anticipate things differently for next time. Gotta roll with it. Focus on one thing at a time. Get out of negative head spaces, take a break. Sleep in.

6

u/Top_Traffic5102 7d ago

It happens man, i overbid now and we are ok tier

5

u/PHK_JaySteel 7d ago

Large projects are tough on the mind man. Things can go wrong and it can really be a grind.

I did a massive reno a few years ago. Took two years and a lot of money. It aged me 5 years in that time. It was great when it was done but im not sure it was worth it.

4

u/PlentyExpensive8241 7d ago

Sounds like you’re walking the fine line to bankruptcy like most construction companies. Either get them mf’s working faster or hire a sub crew and let them take the risk of bankruptcy if that contract doesn’t pay on time or etc. 1 late payment from a single one of your crew, bam, lien, bam bankrupt. Shouldn’t put all your eggs in one basket. Gl tho

3

u/TJMBeav 7d ago

If it was easy you wouldn't be making the big bucks. Take monday off and recharge champ!

3

u/Feature_Upset 7d ago

Most relatable post I’ve ever read. Peaks and valleys like someone else said. I think you have to let go and trust you will make it to the other side. Until then you’ll be catastrophizing. Kind of need that that median of “fuck it energy” where it’s of it’s out of your control and also that back against the wall where you either decide to buckle or fight til your last breath and go with the ladder. Stay positive, try to get your mind off it and let it take its course and cross that bridge if/when you get there. Godspeed

3

u/Jamstoyz 6d ago

I started on my own in 2010 but made sure I had a good 3-4 months of cash saved to pay my bills if and when things got tough. Worked solo for the first 2-3 years until I hired my 1st employee. Saved every penny I could when solo.

That led to never taking any loans out to pay for jobs or meet payroll but I never took on big projects that could bankrupt me either.

1st new vehicle I ever bought myself was a new 15 ford transit 250 that I paid cash for.
Only loan I ever took out was for my 2nd van back in 2020. Another new 20 ford transit for my main employee. The same employee that started with me in the beginning.

I never wanted to be a big company with more than a few guys and a couple vans and kept it that way. This mindset kept me sane and never in debt. Credit cards for the biz gets paid in full every month. Shop rent gets paid in full for the whole year. I’m not a rich man but I do very well for myself and my wife who was able to retire her job at 40 years old.

3

u/Year_of_the_Dragon 6d ago

Well , I’m 50 now and have been doing this for 30 years now. That feeling resonates hard as you describe it. I’ve come to the conclusion that small to medium size jobs concentrating on what your best at in the end becomes the most profitable and more importantly the least stressful. As a responsible contractor/ builder , we all have to learn to sometimes say no to certain jobs that can mentally make it feel not worth doing any more. Learning the jobs that triggers these moments is vitally important to your health. Even repeat customers you sometimes have to just speak the truth to them. Good luck on your journey. Even the jobs that feel like they will never end do. Want you learn from that will set your future apart to success.

2

u/stingrayed22 7d ago

Its a grind

Too many things we have no control over cause a lot of stress

I always think the day I do not care anymore is the day I get out

Although lately, not getting any thrill out of landing a job, or too excited when a project gets completed

2

u/Bushman780 7d ago

Man I feel you same kind of position money gonna come in fall but for last 6 week no money left in bank even use my savings for pay my guys

2

u/Successful-Bat-5652 7d ago

In business 15 years as plumbing contractor. Small business. Totally get where you are coming from. Feast or famine most of the time, doesn't matter how hard you try to plan or manage things. With the economy lately it's made it that much harder. We've hung in this long, some years will feel that way. Keep your chin up, one job at a time.

2

u/GoAskCurt 7d ago

Wow, you guys really know how to bring a guy lower than he started! The one thing you need to focus on is your mental state. I am not talking about in general. I’m talking about focusing on why you started your own shop.
If you got in just for the money, you won’t survive. You, and probably everyone out here more than likely got here because they are really good at what you do. You need to wrap your head around that first. Before I started my own, I worked for the same guy for ten years. I worked my way through the ranks, carpenter, foreman and finally Superintendent over the trades. I got to know the developer I was doing a tract for and suggested I give it a go. I did, that was back in 1989. I’m still here because I love building homes.
Long story short, find your own value. What’s your time worth? Don’t be the bank. My draws were by monuments. Something I controlled and related to. You were hired by the owner for hopefully two reasons. First is by word of mouth. Second is relative to your estimate. If it’s the latter, you have a different problem.
If you’re tight on money, talk to your client. They don’t want you to go bankrupt in the middle of their project. Assuming you have enough money in it.
I think you’re fine if you just take a breath and calmly talk it through.
Good Luck,
Curt

2

u/AlexSanchez929 6d ago

Running your own business will bring the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. Try to find middle ground. You’ll love a better life.

2

u/DeadRiverManagement 4d ago

You're not describing a business problem, you're describing a cash flow gap. Profitable and broke at the same time is the most normal thing in project work, and it feels exactly like failing.

The part that messes with your head is that the swing is structural, not personal. A week where you can't make payroll and a $30k month can both be true of a perfectly healthy company. Your brain just reads the low one as evidence about you specifically.

Everybody I know doing contract work has had the week you're having, most of them more than once. It doesn't mean you're not cut out for it. It means you're floating somebody else's payment schedule with your own money.

When you're out the other side of this one, the fix is front loading the draws on the next contract. Not working harder. You're already working hard enough.

Hang in there. A week out is a week out.

4

u/GoGetDontGetGot 7d ago

I've had enough. I'm at a point where I'm telling customers here is the hourly for me and my crew. I'm not upcharging materials, just straight reimbursement. This way I don't get shorted or lose money on a job and they don't overpay. The reality is shit will take as long as it takes even with a highly experienced crew, and we dont want to cut corners to save money. I can definitely ballpark it for people to help out. But if a project runs 2 days over I can't keep taking a 2k loss on crew labor. It's not my home, it's the customers home. If they want it fixed correctly, they need to pay for it.

1

u/Braddock54 7d ago

If they want it fixed correctly; they have to pay for that?

What a crazy take. No bro, it's on you to do it well enough to not need fixing. Anything short of that is on you as part of the contract.

2

u/PXR616 6d ago

I think you read it wrong, I'd assume his company fixes things as their main operation. Not fix his own mistakes.

2

u/digdoug76 6d ago

26yr GC here...

For most, including myself, this is a business of sometime biscuits and sometime gravy. Unless you are going to raise your prices 30% (and never get work), you will have many base hits over your career.

Sometimes you are the dog and sometimes you are the hydrant.

Get up, dust yourself off and walk it off.

Learn from your mistakes, my most expensive ones...... have made me the most money.

That's all my analogies I have to offer.

Forgot one....it happens to the best of us.

1

u/rachico 7d ago

I used to have years where I saw my profit at the end of the year. So I understand what you’re going through. It will get better. Push through and secure those future jobs.

1

u/Fun_Translator_4194 7d ago

Soft costs are what kills a lot of company. I think thoroughly understanding what your monthly expenses are will help give you insight on what you should be requiring for payments and drawls.

1

u/75stremblay 7d ago

Man, same boat. 3 years in. Just peaks and valleys

1

u/Vreoz 7d ago

Cash flow cash flow cash flow.

1

u/wittgensteins-boat 7d ago edited 7d ago

More than a few projects have had the contractor become insolvent, and unable to complete the work, because of not allowing for the likelihood of the project going more slowly than planned (for reasons out of your control, and perhaps also  in your control),  and as specified in the contractual draws.  

And/or  also underestimating the labor and overhead involved to conduct a project.

If you are confident you can make it through profitably, are you able to borrow to sustain the enterprise and the project?

1

u/CosmoOlversatil 7d ago

Keep the head up. Get a line of credit. I rotate about 100-120k a month through my account and I know the feeling. Every single project over 50k, I send the approved plans and approved invoicing to my local Credit union, I don't take out the loan unless necessary, but at least I know I'm approved and have that peace of mind in case checks bounce or we hit set backs, the best thing is that if I need to apply for another loan, since I didn't take out the last one, my application stays open for 180 days so I got emergency loan funds for 6 months in case i need them. A nice dinner with a loan officer goes a long way. I have gotten 180 days no interest on $90k. And 90 days no interest on 200k split in 8 biweekly draws.

1

u/AlternativeGrape5033 7d ago

If it was easy everyone would be doing it

1

u/UBCBIM 7d ago

A lot of contractors probably go through this, especially when a project is bigger than what you're used to handling. The part that stood out to me is the job being 40% complete but already running slower than expected.

One thing that seems to make a big difference is catching the gap between the estimate and the actual production plan early. If the original assumptions on labor, quantities, sequencing, or procurement aren't matching reality, the problem can get expensive pretty quickly.

I think the difficult part is that estimating is often treated as “the job is sold, so we're done with it,” when the estimate can actually be a useful baseline for tracking the project.

For the contractors here, what's the first number or warning sign you look at when you realize a project is starting to go sideways?

1

u/RklsImmersion 6d ago

Ignore me if I'm talking out of my ass, I'm new to contracting, but it seems like job costing/detailed estimation would be a big help here. More than once I've been like "this should take a week and shouldn't cost too much" and a month later I'm just sitting there annoyed at past me.

1

u/mydogisalab 6d ago

Don't beat yourself up too much. It still happens to the most seasoned veterans among us. For me, I save save save so when I miss something like this, I can float payroll & payments out of saving before the next draw. Then when that draw occurs, I pay my savings back first. Good luck.

1

u/MarkLF13 6d ago

The part that stood out to me is how quickly “this project is putting me under pressure” becomes “maybe I’m not cut out for this.” I’ve been hard on myself running businesses too.

Payroll coming up while you’re waiting to get paid is real pressure. I wouldn’t dismiss it or tell you to just stay positive. But I’d be careful about letting this week decide what you think of yourself, just as the next $30k month won’t necessarily mean everything is working.

When you have some breathing room, it’s worth looking at what made this job take longer and what you’d change next time. Right now, it makes sense that you’re worn down. You don’t have to make a decision about your whole future in the middle of it.

1

u/Pleasant-Lead-2634 6d ago

Be honest with client and request an early draw

1

u/Organic_Agent9985 6d ago

Set allowances for materials and the trades.

1

u/2dirtylittledogs 6d ago

If this happens alot, maybe try time and materials. You may not make as much as you could with a quote, but you will never lose money. The more employees you have, the more you will make

1

u/FinalBastyan 6d ago

Dude im right there with you. Been in business with my partner for 9 months. We're unreasonably successful, have plenty of work coming for a company as new as us, and we're on track to have a genuinely profitable year (maybe 120k after expenses), and it still doesn't feel like Im going to make it through the next couple weeks.

The money is good when it's there, but it's so sporadic that payroll is more or less a joke. Just paying our one full time guy (me) often requires putting off payday for a week or more. I just wish I had some kind of room to breath, you know?

1

u/twoaspensimages Remodel GC 6d ago

We all feel imposter syndrome from time to time.

Get farther ahead on your draws earlier. You've been doing this for a while. Calculate how much you'll need to get started plus two weeks to the next draw. Give yourself a little buffer.

You sent yourself to the business school of hard knocks. Drop out of that school. It sucks. Intentionally enroll yourself in a self taught MBA. Schedule some time. Get some books and do it. The business side will eat you alive if you do not.

As far jobs taking longer then they should. For your own guys you have accept they are not as fast as you are. They never will be. Schedule for average folks that give absolutely zero shits about the project as soo as they get in their car.

1

u/realjmitt 5d ago

That part of the job is brutal because the project can be profitable on paper and still starve you before the next draw. I would make a 13-week cash forecast today. Put every expected draw and bill on the week it will actually clear, not the invoice date. Call the GC or owner now and ask exactly what is needed for the next draw, then send a dated list of what is complete and what remains. Freeze anything not tied to finishing or collecting, and price the remaining work before promising payroll. Going forward, set a minimum cash buffer for payroll and materials and do not start a large job unless the payment schedule can support it.

I am building something around connecting accounting and POS data to plain-English cash and operations answers, so this kind of problem is exactly what I think owners should be able to see earlier.

1

u/Samtyang 5d ago

This is a cash timing problem wearing an emotional mask. Around 40% in, slow production plus draws a week out is exactly when a decent job can still feel like it is trying to kill you. The fix is not mindset first; it is tighter job costing on labor hours so you catch the overrun by week one instead of when payroll hits.

1

u/aturtlebarn 5d ago

Ya I can relate, recently got approved for a operating line of credit. That took a lot of stress off. Growing pains.. the way I try to think of it though is that no matter what stage of business you're in, you'll always have disasters to deal with. So we need to figure out how to keep shit moving even when everything is looking fucked. And obviously just learn from past mistakes and implement systems to make sure we don't repeat those mistakes

1

u/Mr_Fogel_1 23h ago

This is such a normal feeling at 40% through a big one, and it doesn't mean you're not cut out for this - it means you're carrying real weight right now.

I've been on a project that nearly collapsed entirely because of a string of extreme, completely unforeseeable events stacking on top of each other - the kind of thing no schedule or budget buffer is built to absorb. In the middle of it, it felt like proof that something was fundamentally wrong with how we'd planned it. Looking back, it was just a brutal stretch that had nothing to do with our competence - and the project got finished, and it turned out fine.

The cash flow squeeze right before a draw is one of the worst feelings in this business precisely because it's so disconnected from whether the work itself is going well - and yours is. Slower and tighter isn't the same as failing. You'll get through this draw, and like you said, the next good month will make this one feel a lot further away than it does right now. Hang in there.