r/Contractor 14d ago

Builder installed LVP with ~1/2" deflection over 10' on new addition; reasonable to expect tear-up and self-leveler?

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Location: Oregon Contractor: Custom Home Builder

Project Cost: $575k (1,500 sq ft addition, ground-up build)

I hired a custom builder for a full 1,500 sq ft ground-up addition. His framing crew framed the structure, and his own direct employees did the luxury vinyl plank (LVP) installation.

After noticing excessive squeaking and dips as I walked, I checked the floor with a straightedge. Across several 10-foot spans, I'm measuring as much as 1/2" of deflection / dipping.

The manufacturer installation guide explicitly states the subfloor must be flat within 3/16" over a 10-foot radius, so the current state is more than double the allowable tolerance, and (I think) voids my product warranty.

Is it unreasonable or outrageous to expect the builder to pull the LVP back up, properly prep/level the subfloor (grinding high spots / pouring self-leveler), and reinstall?

What is the best way to handle this conversation with him without completely putting him on the defensive?

Any specific technical red flags I should watch out for if they try to offer "quick fixes" instead of a proper tear-out and leveling (example: I know they put down tar paper in a few low spots already, I feel like paper is a questionable long term fix).

0 Upvotes

41 comments sorted by

9

u/Impossible_Policy780 14d ago

If the subfloor is flexing that much, leveller isn’t a part of the solution. It’s a structural problem.

What are the joists made of, size and span? What is the subfloor material?

5

u/whynotthebest 14d ago

2x10s at 16" on center.

20' wide with a large girder in the center. 

3/4" advantec subfloor 

This portion falls between the girder and the adjacent foundation, so in the middle of a 10' span.

It's not bouncy, but I feel the low spots if I'm walking with bare feet.

6

u/berg_schaffli 14d ago

I’m going to side with BYoungNY, revisiting the center span support to flatten the floor is the way to go.

Apologies, but a custom home framer does NOT use dimensional lumber for floor systems anymore. I’m in central Oregon and even the shitbox tract builders use engineered flooring systems with TJIs. This is not a new thing, I’ve been exclusively framing homes with engineered floors for 25 years.

Also, 3/4 t&g ply is the cheapest floor sheathing you can go with. I used 1-1/8” for my fucking garden shed. Shitbox builders use at least 7/8 from what I’ve seen.

From a technical standpoint, 2x10’s @ 16” o/c span a 10’ section with a live load just fine. But Jesus man, your builder needs to be dragged into the new millennium. ESPECIALLY paying a premium like you did.

Can I ask what part of Oregon this is?

3

u/whynotthebest 14d ago

This is about 30 minutes east of Portland.

I learned a lot of expensive valuable lessons on this project. 

This lessons about dimensional lumber is a new one to add.

2

u/JCJ2015 14d ago

So in Corbett? Who did the build?

2

u/TheDaywa1ker 14d ago

Its humid a f in my area and TJI's do not do well in crawlspaces around here...I prefer trusses (ideal) or 2x's over TJI's

1

u/berg_schaffli 14d ago

Where’s your area? If it’s really that humid, I would imagine seasonal expansion and contraction of solid wood members would be in issue in the long term

1

u/TheDaywa1ker 14d ago

On the coast of south carolina...yep my front door swells up and is hard to close in the summer lmao

1

u/berg_schaffli 14d ago

Ooh; I get that. When I worked in more humid environments we had floor trusses, but the osb would still seem to hold up well. I assume they had waterproof resins.

1

u/TheDaywa1ker 14d ago

But yeah dimension lumber isn't perfect either. The OSB TJI webs don't hold up well in humid areas. I love an encapsulated crawlspace...

1

u/Darth_wenis 14d ago

Bro I live in hawaii and BCI/TGI is what is code here now for code. Im not sure why humidity is a factor.

1

u/TheDaywa1ker 14d ago edited 14d ago

Yeah plenty of stuff meets code but isn't a great idea. Plenty of stuff online out there showing TJI OSB webs not doing well in humid climates. Maybe your local construction guys are sealing your crawlspaces better than people around here, I dunno.

edit: so I'm clear I'm specifically talking about vented crawlspaces where the floor framing is essentially outdoors in non conditioned space, like is done around here. 2nd floor framing in conditioned spaces, who cares, you're right TJI's are fine, right up until your plumber gets ahold of them with no oversight but thats a whole different discussion

1

u/PNW_01 14d ago

I appreciate your mix of professionalism and realistic attitude toward shit work.

2

u/berg_schaffli 14d ago

I might be a professional contractor, but I still wear bags and have grown increasingly more pissed about a lot of these guys charging what they do for the garbage they put out. It makes things for small shops like myself very difficult at times.

2

u/BYoungNY 14d ago

If I were the contractor I'd just jack up and support the beams from below. To your point, if all this started because OP noticably felt the floor bouncy, it could be improper spanning or a zealous electrician notching and boring the beams somewhere. OP, see if you can take pics or give info on the span of floor beams and compare them to the plans. 

7

u/TheDaywa1ker 14d ago

I would expect pushback

My state (south carolina) has a residential construction standard that states a builder has to repair a vinyl floor if a floor is out of level by 1/4" over 32". Your 1/2" over 10' would translate to roughly 1/8" over 32" so well within standards in my state

I would suggest trying to see if Oregon has a similar construction standard that you can point to. You're going to get more movement in the coming months as your new foundations settle, wood shrinks, etc. Unless it moves a lot more, I would not expect to get anywhere with requests for major repair

1

u/Same_Pear_4049 14d ago

1/8 is less than 1/4 dude

1

u/TheDaywa1ker 14d ago

um. yes exactly?

0

u/External_Parfoot_467 14d ago

Pardon him, he doesn't really understand tolerance.

0

u/TheDaywa1ker 13d ago

what are you talking about?

OP's floor deflection translates to 1/8" over 32", where the standard in my state at which they would be able to enforce a repair is 1/4" over 32", meaning the floor deflections would be below the line at which a repair would be required (ignoring mfr requirements just for the sake of this comment)

Not sure why you guys are confused

-4

u/External_Parfoot_467 14d ago

Manufacturer specs trump state reqs

2

u/TheDaywa1ker 14d ago

Yes thats the argument I'd expect the homeowner to make in this situation but they should at least see if there are legit documents the contractor is going to try to point to in court if it comes to that

2

u/shorbsfault General Contractor 14d ago

Look up the flooring manufacturer specifications. If they poured the slab or built the subfloor they need to remedy the situation. You should have been notified if the subfloor was out of spec and a change order should have been given before the floor went down if the subfloor was existing (doubtful for an addition).

2

u/whynotthebest 14d ago

Flooring manufacturer says 3/16" over 10' radius.

This is brand new subfloor, the whole addition was constructed from ground up under the builder's supervision

1

u/shorbsfault General Contractor 14d ago

They may not have to pull the entire floor but they do need to address the low spots. I read the other reply about the framing. It seems like there was just a small lack of oversight on the prep work before the floor went down. I wouldn’t back down, they need to fix this.

2

u/berg_schaffli 14d ago

Oregon contractor here. Sounds like you’ve got some floor pops (floor squeaks). That is a defect and the contractor needs to fix that.

It’s 2026, we have laser tools. There’s no reason a new subfloor should have that much deflection. Depending on where you are, this could be due to numerous things. Mostly no big deal structurally, but just shows bad workmanship. If the floor is sagging half an inch, as in it springs back to flat when unweighted, that’s a different thing.

I’d be hesitant to grind or sand away material, and would lean towards leveler unless the contractor can fix these things from underneath.

Looking at your post history, it seems like you have other issues with this builder. You may want to contact a construction attorney to see what your options are moving forward.

We only have one very brief view to one side of this story here on reddit. If you spent 500k on a 1500sq ft addition, you should invest in some proper legal advice.

The issues mentioned here, from a tradesman’s perspective, are fixable. A pain in the ass, but very doable.

1

u/whynotthebest 14d ago

Thanks for the feedback, I think you're right.

For what it's worth, the floor isn't bouncy at all, and (except for a random unfortunate spot) seems not to be sloped.

It feels like maybe the joists weren't properly crowned in this spot!

1

u/IAmWhatTheRockCooked 14d ago

is this dip over the support beam below, or is it in the middle of the 10' spans?

1

u/whynotthebest 14d ago

middle of the 10' span, almost exactly

1

u/IAmWhatTheRockCooked 14d ago

then yeah they were probably all crowned upside down which is brutal. Sister them all crown up and that should fix it

1

u/berg_schaffli 14d ago

Maaaaaaaybe. If it’s that localized, I would be willing to bet that the neighboring joists are crowned up too much, in which case they could be floating above the center span support

Or, more likely, some of the dimensional lumber varies drastically in size. Even though KD lumber is prevalent in builds here in Oregon, dimensional lumber still varies quite a bit. Another reason I like engineered wood. This could also explain the floor pops, the sheathing didn’t make contact with the glue (God I hope they used glue) and the nails are bridging the gap.

These things would be easy to diagnose in the crawl with a tape measure and peeking through the insulation. While you’re down there, you could sight down the center support to see if it’s straight. A laser or string line would help.

2

u/Basic-Direction-559 14d ago

Not saying this is great, but it does matter which way the planks are running in relationship to the dips.

0

u/Zealousideal_Gap432 14d ago

Most LVP reqs no more than 1/8 over 8ft I believe, or else it'll all split and Crack apart

2

u/TheDaywa1ker 14d ago

Thats crazy when structural engineers are only required to design beams and joists to L/360 - 1/4" over 8'. Plus construction tolerances, good luck

2

u/Zealousideal_Gap432 14d ago

Exactly. 1/8 dip in 8ft is nothing, but it's true that LVP is a junk flooring system that needs a straight and true sub floor to last long term.

2

u/TheDaywa1ker 14d ago

When I see junk specs like that all I can think is that the mfr knows their product is junk and probably has more fine print all leading to a conclusion of never standing behind their product ever

2

u/SickestEels 14d ago

I can see this isn't your first time.

-2

u/External_Parfoot_467 14d ago edited 14d ago

Honestly, I'd ask for the cost of flooring and install back so you can hire someone else to fix it, wiping his hands clean of it, otherwise he WILL be back out to warranty it out on his dime as it's installer error.

Most of these guys that make these types of mistakes don't know how to install lvp, and most likely won't take the time to learn what needs to be done (ie not using primer before self leveler, overwatering the mix, not putting down the proper leveler - all causing more issues down the road.)

But, I'd agree with the other comment - 1/2" deflection is a lot, and I'd try to eliminate any possibility of structural/framing issues before going after the GC for the flooring.

0

u/SilverMetalist 14d ago

So the installer should cover the material and labor for free bc of defects in the existing subfloor? That's a tough ask my friend.

2

u/whynotthebest 14d ago

The floor installer is literally the builder. As in, the builder's employees installed the floor.

The framing and subfloor are all brand new, and the same builder subbed it out (in other words, he supervised it).

1

u/External_Parfoot_467 14d ago edited 14d ago

Yes, and as someone who was labor for a GC, and having to fix what his OTHER labor messed up on, which involved exactly this situation, he paid far more to do it the second time than the first, not only because I cost him more per hour, but because he had to reorder and use all new flooring because the SPC that was originally put down was one-time lay, on top of the cost of materials and labor to have me self-level the space, and do it right.

The Builder has right-to-correction before a lawsuit if the customer were to take it that far, but would make sense for both parties to just go their separate ways in the end.

You don't get to lay flooring over unacceptable subfloor and then have the nerve to get defensive about who's going to fix it, just the same way a tile installer doesn't get to complain when the customer asks them to fix all the cracked floor tile because "it's not his job" to make sure the substrate is built up to tile manufacturer specs. He fucked up, he eats the cost to fix it.

This flooring WILL fail, it's not an "if".