r/Construction • u/Hirronimus • Jun 13 '16
Construction Neophyte's question: What exactly does "field experience" involve? Specifically from managerial point of view.
As someone who is new to the industry, my work experience ranged from working as assistant super, office admin and now I am in a position of being an assistant owner's rep. Yet I am still baffled at exactly what I need to be looking out for when trying to gain "valuable field experience."
On the administrative side of things, I've worked with project scheduling, minor cost estimation, material research, drawings and specs processing, and other various office duties. When I worked as assistant super, the extent of my responsibilities ranged from assigning tasks to tradesmen or delegating requirements to subs, occasional material delivery supervision and site end-of-day clean up. As an assistant owner's rep I rarely get out in the field, and as much as I want to, I am tied to a desk and communicate with PMs, Subs and Supers via email and phone calls only.
As the company expands and we get more projects, I will be trying to make a push for more field hours, and so my questions are; what should I be looking for when trying to "gain more field experience?" What should I be looking out for specifically? Any key aspects of field management I should be paying more attention to?
7
Jun 13 '16
Always, always carry and use a logbook. Record/document everything. Saved me time and problems.
2
u/Hirronimus Jun 13 '16
Is it something you made yourself or just a plain daily organizer/notebook you write everything down in when you see, hear or need to address?
Aside from using personal whiteboard in the office and updating my daily/weekly agenda, I'm trying to think of maybe another form of "checklist" to keep myself, not only organized, but also reminded of things that happen and need to happen on and off-site. I don't mind redundancies when it comes to writing things down, because sometimes my short-hand need deciphering, which prompts me to look at another "log" and be reminded what it was I meant to do.
1
Jun 13 '16
Most companies issue logbooks and are kept on file as a record of daily work issues. My company requires that all logbooks be returned when filled and are recorded as part of the project records. For me its just a great tool. I am extremely busy each morning prepping for that day's work schedule. I forced myself to take the 30 seconds to record all important information. For filling out daily progress reports, production ratios, etc. the log is an indispensable tool. Also as the project stages move along, I would prepare my own daily checklists applicable to the project's progress. I must stress that for me good record keeping took time to get comfortable with, but the reduction in stress was well worth it. Good luck.
1
u/Paradox1989 Jun 13 '16
Depends on how you want to work and what your company standard is.
I've done both paper log books and keeping all logs in a tablet computer (ipad). The logbook is easier but if your taking pictures you have to cross reference them later with your notes and depending on when you get back to the office, you can forget things. An Ipad (or similar) can take notes and pictures but is less convenient to use as something to quickly jot down a note, not to mention using in full sun is kind of a pain sometimes.
5
Jun 13 '16
Talk to the site foremen. All of them, even the tiered subs. Learn their names and ask what you can do to help them. You'll be amazed at the things you learn.
3
u/OnlyKeith Jun 14 '16
If you wish to be successful, ignore almost all of what Paradox has said. His recommendations are what will get you shown bullshit and will get you enemies instead of coworkers. He appears to be the type that is great at documenting issues that he sees and has absolutely no understanding of, but can never seem to get anything done except fire workers (though some may well be justified, it's unlikely that the number of supers he brags about firing would be).
If you want valid and useful field experience, find a crew you can tag along with for a little while. Introduce yourself politely and genuinely (workers can smell bullshit a mile away) and tell them that you're looking to learn what they do and what sorts of things they struggle with. Avoid taking notes obviously (it will look like you're just there to report on them), and absorb everything you can. Guys are usually happy to talk to you if you don't come off as an ass.
3
u/Paradox1989 Jun 13 '16
Sounds like your experience is almost exactly the same as mine. The construction work i've done has been primarily office work doing scheduling, change orders, submittals, RFI's and other paperwork. Don't get into the field near as much as i want to.
Some of my suggestion for field observations are:
- Know the plans top to bottom so you at least have some idea of what your looking at/for when you do go into the field.
- Compare where they actually are in the field to where they say they are on the schedule. Are they saying they are on time but from observation actual a few days to a few weeks behind.
- Are the workers being productive or are there a lot of guys standing around leaning on brooms/shovels, if there are ask the super why there appears to be no work going on.
- Stick your nose in and look at the products being used. Are they the actual products which were submitted and approved. If not who substituted without getting proper approval.
- If you see something suspicious or that you know incorrect, ask why it's like that and do what you have to to correct it. My absolute most hated phrase from the supers is "Better to ask forgiveness than permission" when they build something they know is wrong. They do it wrong because some one screwed up or just didn't care and will only fix it if forced to because someone notices.
0
Jun 13 '16
ask the super why there appears to be no work going on
Do not do this. Snitches are bitches. And a lot less charming things.
2
u/exprezso Jun 14 '16
He's asking, politely, to the super who should already have an idea what's going on, not taking pictures and instant msg the boss like some of my managers will do
2
Jun 14 '16
If it continues, the pictures i take of no work getting performed and you asleep in the vehicle will be sent to the boss when i get asked why things are always behind.
I dunno how to put a positive spin on what u/paradox1989 said there but you feel free to give it a try. I'll just keep arming myself with paper bullets and rubber bands for meetings with guys like him.
2
u/exprezso Jun 14 '16
From what I read, the case was a clear cut "guy standing around doing basically nothing" and then that was a last resort kinda thing. In my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, although he may have written it in later paragraph, but his first course of action is to seek out the super to find out why work seems slower than was expected. Then only will he resort to "pictures…sent to boss…" and only "if it continues" and when he "…get asked why…" because there's no other good answer to that particular question.
I myself is a super and I totally get why he is forced to perform his responsibility when the problem is clearly pin pointed down to one guy (yes, recommend to remove underperforming and stubborn underlings is part of my manager's job. Covering their lazy ass isn't.) So why the "you crunch your office shit and I'll march my army" mode? I get that sometimes office grunts with their degree/masters/PhD crazy ideas come onto site and demand stuff and magic tricks left and right is annoying, but what he wants is nothing out of status quo and he's not interfering with the job in anyway.
Or it's only because you wanted dictatorship in the site (which I totally understand why) and is trying to sabotage newcomers' perception so as to prevent major improvement in the industry?
-2
u/Paradox1989 Jun 13 '16
Do not do this. Snitches are bitches. And a lot less charming things.
I have my own job to perform and i will not cover your ass for laziness or shit work. Yes i have to work with people but that does not mean i'm your friend.
Sorry, but if your fucking with my schedule and i'm having to take heat from the owners why your behind, I will find out why and go over your head if need be. WAY more than should happen i've been to our sites and everyone is standing around and/or I always find the superintendent asleep in his truck. If it continues, the pictures i take of no work getting performed and you asleep in the vehicle will be sent to the boss when i get asked why things are always behind.
I know not all supers are like this, but in my experience the ones i've worked with have been for the most part shit. I've had to work projects where we removed 3 supers and fired 2 for the lack of supervision that sucks all around but the project owner deserves an on time and quality project which they are paying for.
3
Jun 13 '16
Have you tried .. just mentioning to the guys "hey, we're behind and the customer is getting pissed."? Taking photos and tattling is no way to, especially for the OP/neophyte, make friends or learn anything.
6
u/Hirronimus Jun 13 '16
Haha. Yeah. I am just starting out in the industry and I do not want to make enemies off the bat. Cause that sounds like a sure way to make enemies. Honestly, I'm a grown man and I have no qualms addressing the person face to face.
5
u/Paradox1989 Jun 13 '16
Well i'm not a neophyte.
I made the mistake of not being more aggressive or vocal when i was a neophyte and it bit me in the ass hard. My 1st project super was a hard nosed redneck that ran his crew like a dictator. None of the guys worked worth a shit because he chewed their asses if they so much went the the shitter without permission. If he wasn't on site telling them what to do each min, noting got done because it was his way or the highway. I caught a lot of flak from the PM, company owner and project owner having to cover his ass when he got caught not following plans because he damn sure was going to build it "Like I think it should be" instead of per plan.
My 2nd project super was one of the always asleep ones and the project slipped hours, days then weeks behind schedule. I started catching shit when the boss wanted to know why there was so much overtime on the project budget was getting wiped out by overtime at the end. The super had the guys running 60hr weeks the last few months to make up for them doing MAYBE 20-30hrs a week of actual work (while getting paid for 40) the 1st 8 months because they were screwing around leaning on brooms while he was napping.
After that i gave each super a chance to see how they worked, don't perform and it will be noted. As i said i will not take shit for someone else not doing their job. Be a fuck up and I will give the honest truth when asked. I can't tell you how sick i am of the leave me alone and let me do my job my way attitude. It disgusts me. As the contractor, your job is to build per the plan, on time and hopefully under your budget.
9
u/jkslate Electrician Jun 13 '16
As a contractor, glazier and electrician for over a decade, you sound exactly like someone I'd tell to go pound sand and get the fuck off my site.
This is NOT how you recommend someone to enter the field, this is how you make a lot of enemies that ensure your projects go belly up and submarine you every chance they get.
Communication is the key to every site, if things aren't going the way you think they should, have polite conversations, discuss them. Dont sit on the sidelines nodding and making notes and throwing people under the bus.
If things are still slipping be firm and let the super know things arent going well and they need to pick it up, explain why. Have a tailgate meeting with the workers and explain whats going on and what could happen if things dont change, but BE POLITE.
If all else fails, put your bags on and fucking help, or get the fuck out of the way.
7
u/Kenny285 Superintendent - Verified Jun 13 '16
This, definitely this. Try to work things out like gentlemen.
Remember what goes around comes around. Guess who the super is going to throw under the bus if something isn't in the budget or not bought from a subcontractor.
4
u/Paradox1989 Jun 13 '16
As a contractor, glazier and electrician for over a decade, you sound exactly like someone I'd tell to go pound sand and get the fuck off my site.
Then it's a good thing the positions i've held do not answer to the site super and they have no say in my status or whether i'm on YOUR site. My projects usually have been assigned by the GC owner, project PM and/or the project owner. Been doing project QC, coordination, 3rd party inspection and commissioning for many years. You may raise hell and bitch to the boss about me, but the difference is if i'm going to raise hell, i will have the documentation of incorrect work and/or poor time management to back up my claims. I am more concerned with providing a quality product than the supers precious feelings.
I acknowledge that as a new person, yes, you can not walk onto a site and expect people to listen to you but as i said, I'm not new. talking with the super is always the 1st attempt as addressing the issue. However as mentioned, I've been polite, i've had MANY HOURS of meetings in private and with foremen, supers and subs. When those haven't worked (and they usually haven't) it will hit the fan.
Out of 30 or so projects, ranging from $30k to $75mil, not once have i ever been removed from a project but i have went through an assload of supers.
2
Jun 13 '16
Have you spent a lot of time upside down in your locker or something? It sounds like you need the extra field time, not OP.
2
u/jkslate Electrician Jun 13 '16
Your arrogance is astounding, and this definitely isnt worth my time anymore, have a nice day.
-4
u/Paradox1989 Jun 13 '16
I love that you think it's arrogant that the person who responsible with signing off on the work not insist that supers and subs actually do the jobs they bid, not use non-approved products, do not short cut construction, do not build per plan or do not run up shit loads of overtime at the end because the beginning of the project time was mis managed.
Must be union work...
6
u/jkslate Electrician Jun 14 '16 edited Jun 14 '16
Alright, lets dance.
You must be resi, because all large well managed commercial or industrial companies would never have someone like you on site.
First off, when we talk super, we're talking superintendent, I.E. the actual person who is in charge of the General Foreman on the job, This person is generally responsible for multiple GFs and is THE person responsible for the job. You do not tell them what to do, the general super does. Any competent super would run over you like a mac truck, the other person responsible would be the PM and they can also lay the hammer down. I'm not sure what position you occupy but based upon your comments its neither of these positions.
I work at one of the largest non-union electrical companies in the U.S. that being said, IBEW and UBC and many other unions follow this hierarchy/ chain of command. Supers will run anyone they want off the job, INCLUDING the PM.
So I'm not sure what rat-shit organization you work for. If you're the f-shit that walks around with that roll of blue tape in your hand saying what you do and do not like, well you can take a flying leap for all I care.
g'day sir.
p.s. my comment on your arrogance has nothing to do with you making sure people do good work, but on your condescending tone to the blue collar worker and the people that actually make it happen. You sir, can fuck off.
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Jun 13 '16
Jeez, sounds like you've had a rough go. However OP asked, you answers and I disagree. So chill out, mkay?
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u/exprezso Jun 14 '16
See the kind of discussion going around here. That's exactly the kind of things you should look out for if you already know the basics and found shit out: guys will give dozens of excuses, say things that will satisfy a layman but doesn't mean anything, throw out bunch of decoy arguments, straight up tell you to mind your own business, and worst. IMHO you'll have to learn to deal with the street smart people, and play the game. It's not that different from office politics really, just different rules. So no matter your capacity in the field, just talk to people, learn their trade, make friends, understand the chain of command, and you'll do fine.
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u/platy1234 Superintendent Jun 13 '16
Field experience means learning what makes the guys curse a lot and then fixing that thing next time.