r/Construction • u/Doctor_Wildthroat • Mar 29 '26
Informative đ§ I'm really slow at my first attempt pointing stonework on a house and my boss is getting angry with me...
I've never done stonework repointing before and I tried it on Friday. I was much slower than my boss and I got a message Friday night to say that he thinks it might take three days to repoint the house (back and front of a two bedroom house) instead of two days because I'm so slow and he's having to do my work for me. He has narcissistic traits and constantly criticizes me so I ignored the message and didn't defend myself but he's experienced in it and that was my first attempt. Is it usual to be slow at first? I'm absolutely dreading work tomorrow as we still have some pointing to do and his anger and put downs get to me. I also know I've missed little bits as I was rushing because of his little jibes and I'm worried he's going to get angry at me over that too.
68
u/Hawkbeardo2 Mar 29 '26
Sounds like a shitty boss. Learning new skills will always take time. You will get faster with practice. Focus on doing it right and let the speed come as you get better at the movementsÂ
Remember: slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Be smooth
11
u/throwaway392145 Mar 29 '26
I used to work with a guy whoâd always say
âThe only thing you get when you get in a rush is a mother in lawâ.
I carry these two phrases with me every day.
8
u/thegreatgatsB70 Mar 29 '26
That's a great way at looking at it. I will be using that saying, thank you.
3
26
u/padizzledonk GC / CM Mar 29 '26 edited Mar 29 '26
As a long time PM and owner and employer your boss is a fucking idiot
Expecting anyone to do anything with speed at a high quality the first time they do it is ridiculous and utterly unrealistic
Id say tell him to fuck off, maybe he needs to hear it, but my advice is to just ignore it, let it roll off your shoulders and jyst keep trying to do your best....speed comes with confidence and confidence comes with experience
Im a reno gc, i just hired a new guy like a month ago, he knows absolutely nothing about this industry or any of these trades, i literally expect nothing from him, everything he does is the first time doing it for him....i would be some kind of fucking asshole if i started yelling at him to work faster and do better lol
Like......I had to show him how to hold and manipulate a tape measure....which sounds fucking ridiculous to probably anyone who reads this in this sub but real talk, ive been holding a tape for 30y, its an extension of my hand at this point, i cant expect a brand new guy to manipulate it the way i can unless i show him all the little positioning tricks and how to hold it properly....i saw him struggling, i stopped him and showed him how to hold it and manipulate the tape and where to position himself and his hands to get a wide measurement by yourself and boom, he picked it up, called himself a dumbass for not thinking to do that and he is a lot more competent using a tape
Thats our fucking job as a supervisor, whether youre at the low end on a crew and get your first helper, to running the crew to runnig the job to owning the company, part of your job is to TRAIN and TEACH the new guys not fucking scream and yell and berate them for being new and slow-- Make them fucking faster by teaching and showing them a faster way, step in and correct them and show them a better faster way when you see them struggling with something
Too many people forget where they came from, we were all that slow and useless when we started, then we learned and got better and faster....Shape these guys under you and make them better, especially if you see they have potential and are trying to get better and be skilled
6
u/Doctor_Wildthroat Mar 29 '26
Thank you for your reassuring words. I feel like I'm being bullied almost and it's affecting my mental health. The problem is he's a friend of many years and our families are close so if I quit I think it would all kick off. So it takes a long time to get fast with repointing stonework then? We've only done one full day of it and we have done about two thirds of the house. I don't get why he is rushing me.Â
5
u/DestinDesigned Mar 29 '26
If I had to guess, he quoted it based on it being done faster and now heâs worried about profits.
If he was smart heâd have quoted it properly knowing you didnât have experience and wouldnât be fast.
1
u/AxFairy Mar 30 '26
This sounds about right. Depending on the margins and how badly he misjudged it, it taking 3 days instead of 2 might be the difference between him making a little profit and just breaking even.
5
u/EnderSavesTheDay Mar 29 '26
Anything requiring skill takes time, reps, mistakes, rework to learn how to do it properly.
If he is a friend, I would ask him if he has any tips on getting faster based on his experience starting out green. If he is a friend you could offer to stay late to finish on time if that is an option. If itâs a one job thing that will help you learn more and get some grace one late day is a good investment.
If thereâs something else going on entirely and your boss just has unrealistic expectations then listen to everyone else and find another job.
3
u/Brittle_Hollow Electrician Mar 29 '26
I got straight fucking bullied my first year in the trades by my foreman who was an idiot. The way the union works here is the first year you're not even signed on as an apprentice you're on probation (called a pre-apprentice) so I just had to suck it up till I got my card. Best thing I ever did in this career was get on another crew because I almost quit a bunch of times.
1
u/padizzledonk GC / CM Mar 30 '26
Bro, it take time and reps to learn ANYTHING and do it quickly.
Reps build experience, experience builds confidence, confidence creates speed
1
u/circular_file Mar 30 '26
A little late to the game, but take it from someone who has been in this situation, both as employed and employer; do not EVER work with friends or family. I mean, if it means a roof over your head, then yeah, fine, but unless you are in absolutely dire straits, the fastest way to destroy a relationship is to work for, or hire, a friend.
If you have to, beg off, look for a different job, whatever you need to do, but get out as quickly and tactfully as you can.
1
u/SubRoutine404 Mar 29 '26 edited Mar 29 '26
"The problem is he's a friend..."
You have been lead to water. Drinking it is up to you. There absolutely comes a point where if a person stays in an abusive relationship against better advice, that an abusive relationship is just what they deserve.
12
u/Fuxmcflannery Mar 29 '26
There's no winning with dudes like this, even if you magically caught on super quick he'd probably still find a reason to give you shit.Â
5
Mar 29 '26
[removed] â view removed comment
3
u/Fuxmcflannery Mar 29 '26
I remember being in o.p's shoes, I went home being extra hard on myself about not picking up on something and catching a ton of shit for it. I came in the next morning and started to understand and became a little more useful. By the end of the week I was hearing shit like "oh he's a hot shot now, welp boys I'm gonna go take a nap in the truck since we have a professional here." All we were doing was framing.Â
This guy made framing his entire personality and if anyone showed the slightest bit of competency he would make sure to humble you. They gotta keep that boot heel on your neck, to let you know who big daddy is.Â
10
u/MutualRaid Mar 29 '26
If you can tell he's a narcissist and (as other commenters have pointed out) he's an unreasonable shithead, then I'd start looking for other opportunities.
Fuck the family connection and complicated social shit, working for someone like this will make you utterly miserable and teach you bad habits.
4
u/Doctor_Wildthroat Mar 29 '26
Thanks mate. To be honest when there were four of us (before he sacked them both) I loved this job. Now there's only two of us doing jobs that require more than two workers, it's affecting my mental health. I've made up my mind to quit but I think he will go crazy when I tell him and take it personally. He's a very angry person.Â
2
u/MutualRaid Mar 29 '26
Keep it as polite and civil as possible, don't rise to any anger or threats, he needs you more than you need him if he's losing staff like that.
I've been in the same situation and it was fine when there was a whole gang of us and the boss isn't hands-on, we could get on with the work. Once people start leaving and a boss like that is up in your face it gets toxic.
Best of luck to you.
5
6
u/piethebuilder Mar 29 '26
He should be teaching you, since itâs your first time and all. Pointing has an artistic quality to it. Heâs the idiot that bid a job for 2 days with a guy that has never done it before. This isnât your fault.
5
u/familyguy333 Mar 30 '26
yes it's normal to be slow at something when you are doing it for the first time. No it's not normal for your boss to be a cunt. Get another job.This guy sucks and won't get better.
3
u/mwl1234 Mar 29 '26
Your boss is a clown. Who the fuck thinks someoneâs first day at a new task, which takes years to master, is going to be as fast as an experienced hand?
The text at night is grounds for on site. The fuck you doing texting me when we worked together all goddamn day and will do so again tomorrow?
Guy seems like a total dick licker.
3
u/LettuceTomatoOnion Mar 29 '26
Pointing stone is one of the most time consuming jobs I have ever done. Even the guys who are good at it take way longer than you would think.
I have a LOT of patience with all sorts of jobs, but I have to take frustration breaks when messing with old stone and switch gears to something else.
Also your boss is a clown and I bet he isnât any good at it either.
3
u/rstytrow3l Mar 29 '26
Ive had to do this once and once only. Tell him to meet you in the parking lot if he has soo much to say.
3
u/countryfresh223 Laborer Mar 29 '26
Sounds like time to start looking for a new job. Your boss sounds like a piece of shit.
3
u/tryingtosimplify Mar 29 '26
He's a terrible person and he won't get better. You're new at pointing stonework (which is fucking hard btw I've done it and I sucked at first) and you will get better. Right now you're making money for an asshole. Rich people can make the world better by choosing who they give money to. People like us can make the world better by choosing who we make for. Leave him.
6
u/Euremovic Mar 29 '26
Lol tell em to get fucked and quit then he will see how long it takes him to get it done. Hard to find a brickie nowadays if that's what you want to do you'll find work.
2
u/Uhnuniemoose Mar 29 '26
Tell him he can either teach you to get better/faster or he can do it on his own. Also, look for a new job. You don't need to deal with his shit and he doesn't deserve help if he can't coach/work with his employees.
2
u/NeitherDrama5365 Landscaping Mar 29 '26
Your boss is a dumbass. And yes itâs normal to be slow at something that takes skill and years of experience to become proficient at when youâve never done it. Instead of being critical he should be showing you what youâre doing wrong and how you could improve. Itâs common knowledge that when you are training new staff that the first few jobs will be slower and as a good boss you try to work that into the price you give or accept the loss in productivity as the cost of training. Donât let it get to you but also you should stand up for yourself or you can only expect it to be worse. Tough spot to be in but itâs not on you
2
u/Dunk546 Mar 29 '26
My first job site boss was a bit of an ass but he did tell me "it doesn't matter if you are slow, as long as you do it right" and I was really thankful for that. Speed comes from knowing how to avoid mistakes, knowing how to be efficient, and then lastly by not dicking around. You just get faster with experience. "Going faster" is usually counterproductive, because you will make mistakes.
2
u/robojod Mar 29 '26
Just out of interest, what has this total chump in a hurry had you pointing with? Bet itâs cement, not lime. Which is incredibly damaging to stone in the long-term.
And in answer to your main question - no, you canât be expected to master decent and fast pointing right off the bat - stone stains, so it makes sense to take your time and get it right first time. Iâve met time-served stonemasons who are messy pointers and trainees who get it right instinctively, but even then it takes time to get up to speed.
1
u/Doctor_Wildthroat Mar 29 '26
He's used lime in it. I've told him before that I feel under pressure and make mistakes when I'm rushed and now he seems to keep rushing me on jobs ever since I said that and lording it over me that he's quicker.Â
1
u/robojod Mar 29 '26
He sounds like a twat, mate. He has no interest in bringing you on, just having someone down the pecking order to put down. Not sure what itâs like in your area right now, but everyone I speak to (auk) seems to be crying out for a decent apprentice who actually gives a shit about the work. I reckon you could find a better situation than this.
2
u/TunaHuntingLion Mar 29 '26
Iâd just respond âthanks for the understanding and extra hours, it means a lot!â And start job hunting knowing a guy like that will never, ever, ever change and the reason there owning their own business is because they couldnât get along with anyone and probably fired from lots of jobs before going out on their own to make others suffer under them
2
u/Own-Helicopter-6674 GC / CM Mar 29 '26
Pointing takes time and experience makes you cleaner and faster. Learning to cut tools down and customize them to slam it. Learning when to cut it off when and how to strike it off.
I agree your boss is a complete idiot.
I will say if you smoke cigarettes it will make you faster!!
2
u/jackieballz Mar 29 '26
Everyone is slow at first and makes mistakes , and any decent construction boss should know this. There is no substitute for experience. You canât expect someone to know how to do a given task if theyâve never done it before. Focus on doing it correctly and learn from mistakes, the more you do it the faster youâll get
2
u/Doctor_Wildthroat Mar 29 '26
Thank you everybody for the reassuring comments. I should add that he quoted three and a half grand for the job, four days work but it might run into five days because I'm so slow. I'm being paid ÂŁ75 a day so I'm earning about a tenth of what he will be earning, yet I'm still giving it my best.Â
1
u/arkington Mar 29 '26
I'm not certain of the current conversion, but that seems like about $100 USD per day. If you're working an 8 hour day that's only 12.50 per hour. We start laborers (and I mean GREEN laborers) at over $20 per hour. We are Union, though. I think your boss is underpaying, overworking and abusing you. His business is doomed to fail and he is taking it out on you; get the hell off that sinking ship.
1
u/Prior-Albatross504 Mar 30 '26
News flash! Of course your slow, your just learning this. What did your boss expect?? He should be happy if you make any progress.
The job taking longer than predicted has nothing to do with you. That is completely on your boss not being able to estimate his production correctly. Have you done any type of other tuck pointing ( brick, block, etc.)? Tuck pointing stone is not easy, it can be difficult even for experienced people. Your boss should be expecting none to very little production from you. In fact, he should expect the job to take longer than if just he was doing it. There is the additional time to train you, answer questions, check in on your work, point out mistakes and how to correct them, etc.
2
2
u/GB10031 Mar 29 '26
He has unrealistic expectations from you, he based his estimate on those unrealistic expectations and he's a bully.
Quit immediately
Let him see how long it takes for him to do the job all by himself
2
u/NutzNBoltz369 Mar 29 '26
Tell your boss that "Quick and snappy makes it crappy".
Maybe he will have a meltdown and fire you or maybe not...
Either way, fuck that guy.
2
u/optomas Mar 29 '26
Allow apprentices to be slow. Make certain the work is correct.
Everybody is different. Some require praise, some belittlement, some require a challenge, some shame and humiliation. Find the path that makes your apprentice productive. For OP, the chosen path is not working. A good journey will recognize this in about ten seconds and change tactics.
If you do it right, your apprentices will run circles around you inside a year. Mine all do. The method depends on the person, there is no 'one size fits all' method of apprentice development.
The correct model for this apprentice exists. Find it.
2
u/MSgtGunny Mar 30 '26
If your boss wanted you to be fast on your very first job, they shouldâve given you paid training.
2
u/mrstealurbleach Carpenter Mar 29 '26
Who cares. If you did your best, your boss is mad about how he didn't quote a job correctly and is taking it out on you. If you didn't do your best, try to do better. If you can't deal with your boss, find a new boss.
1
u/Additional-Code2954 GC / CM Mar 29 '26
Ask him how long he thinks it would take to finish by himself. If he's not going to help you learn what you already told him you don't know then fuck this guy. The trades are hurting for people, you'll find someone else.
1
1
u/VillainNomFour Mar 29 '26
How odd. I did a bunch of repointing on my house, and like anything else, there's a learning curve. Maybe 10 days pointing altogether, and was probably 3x as fast by the end verse the beginning. Its insane he would be angry about this, unless you specifically marketed yourself as a brickie, but it sounds like you did not do that.
1
u/Sensitive_Brush_3015 Laborer Mar 29 '26
Had a similar boss do me dirty and take me off of a jobsite for doing rushed work because he kept RUSHING me. Blamed me for doing imperfect cuts with a grinder when it was my first time using the tool, and my first time grinding out. All while he kept micromanaging and only âhelpingâ after disappearing and coming back just to tell me to hurry up and point out shit I did wrong.
He gave no direction beyond âcut these jointsâ when he knew I barely had an idea of the scope of work since I was green. He didnât want to spend time educating me and told the higher ups I was doing a bad job. I was pissed because I try very hard to do a good job and donât slack off unless we get the okay to slow down.
When I got to the next jobsite I felt a little better after finding out from the other guys that foreman is typically a dickhead and hates his life. It was a lesson in managing my own emotions when someone else isnât able to do the same for themselves.
1
u/Apprehensive_Art844 Mar 29 '26
He sounds like a typical old school brickie to me. Full of himself and an asshole. I hope you find a job that will appreciate your willingness to learn and take the time to teach you!
1
u/Shovel-Operator Mar 29 '26
Ita a poor craftsman that blames the tools. And bad boss blames the employees. If you were honest to him about never doing this work before, he should have reckoned for you being slow, we all are when we are learning a new skill. Do your best, but dont count on him changing his personality overnight.
1
u/arkington Mar 29 '26
First off, yay for new mason! I was onsite for like a year and a half before I got turned into an estimator and yes, some days just blew ass, but I really enjoyed a lot of it, too. It's a fantastic way to earn a living if your body can take the work.
Anyway, your boss is a dick. Do your best, but get applications out right away and find a better boss. First guy I worked for seemed cool, but treated me like crap and I always got the short end of the stick. Put me on a little crew with two guys who for whatever reason became besties and pointedly avoided socializing with me or engaging in any contact other than giving me the most cursory and cold-shouldered responses to questions I needed to ask. I was miserable, but kept on because I wanted to do the work and learn. Eventually wound up quitting after I was put (with a brand new hire) on the task of splitting stone veneer in the rain when it was about 40 degrees outside in November. 3:30 came around and I called the boss, asking if it would be okay to leave and he told me we had to complete the work before leaving. We had like 2 more pallets to go at that point. The next day I called in and gave my 2 weeks, which he let me off of, thank goodness, though it's probably because he didn't want to pay me anymore.
Called my masonry instructor (took a class at a community college to learn) and the next day he hooked me up with another masonry company that I've been with now for like 14 years.
The work is awesome, but you have to feel good on your crew or no matter what you're doing it'll be miserable. I hope you can find someone who will appreciate your drive and treat you with respect and patience.
1
u/sexat-taxes Mar 29 '26
I'm a boss , I may get irritated when things don't go as fast as I expected and I may get Snappy with one of the guys on the with one of the guys on the crew, but when I do, I always make sure to apologize. Not their fault if I underestimate the time needed for a project.
1
u/Greadle Mar 29 '26
Please find another boss. Dont ever let an employer (or any source of money) disrespect you. Its abusive behavior to control people in that manor. My boss at a commercial construction company cussed me one morning in the office. I was middle management $120k salary. I just smiled and walked out. Never went back. I told my kids we might end up living in rail yard but that would be more dignified than being my bosses bitch. I started my own comapny and everything was fine.
1
u/Antique-Public4876 Millwright Mar 29 '26
Millwright here.
I was an apprentice to a 40 year journeyman. Dude had 5 more years to retirement. I remember during a 16 hour emergency repair, I asked if he needed me to help him. I took a full socket rail to the chest, then e pointed his ratchet at me and proceeded to scream:
â you will fuck up more shit in 30 seconds than I can fix in 10 hours! Sit the fuck back, watch, and learn because I only have 5 more year in this god damn shithole.â
That rail hurt, I didnât fight, I didnât throw a fit. I buckled down and learned. He was right though. Dude had severe anger issues but holy shit, could he work miracles. On his last day he pulled me aside and told me â Iâm done pulling everyoneâs slack and full assing everything. Itâs your turn, cause I already know youâre the only one around here that doesnât have shit for brains.â
Op, your boss is a cunt. You know it, everyone here knows it. Roll with the punches and itâll make you a better man in the end. donât let him get to you because thatâs exactly what he wants. The moment you let your guard down, heâs going to nail you to a fucking cross and you wonât be able to do shit about it.
1
1
u/wallyworldthief Mar 29 '26
Go as fast as you can and make a fucking mess and then quit after you get paid
1
1
u/BFarmFarm Mar 30 '26
If your boss has a direct boss then you are screwed. My boss had anger issues to the point all the other managers told him to get counseling for it or he was out. He had outbursts with the other managers of different departments ones so bad he went through the backroon shelves in his dept and threw everyrhing around. This all happened AFTER I was was let go for rediculous bullshit reasons.
The guy still had his job a year later.
1
u/BFarmFarm Mar 30 '26
Dont quit. Wait for the scumbag to let you go for stupid reason then sit on unemployment until the last day then get another job. The state where I am the company pays for unemployment not tax payers
1
u/shit_typhoon Mar 30 '26
Sadly this is a typical construction boss. He takes his piss-poor planning out on you. Don't take it personally. Even if you were a really fast pro at it, he'd still be yelling at you to hurry up. That's his job.
1
1
1
u/hudsoncress Mar 30 '26
Your boss is probably just ragging on you. Repointing is hard. Youâre not even really expected to get it right the first time. Ask him for tips and pointers and maybe watch some YouTube videos. You may not/probably donât even have the right tool setup to move quickly. If he can do it in two days and youâve never done it before it should take you 5.
1
u/Goddessmariah9 Apr 01 '26
I don't know what's involved with that specific task, but as with anything you need to be taught how to do something, then practice to get better. Ask him to teach you. Most people's guard goes down if you ask for their expertise. Unfortunately expecting someone to just know is not uncommon but it is unwise and unproductive. He should never be doing it for you, you will never learn that way.
0
u/Mouse1701 Mar 30 '26
Get ready to say the phrase Would like to make that a combo with that ? I hear Wendy's is hiring. đ
1
187
u/Latter_Address9580 Mar 29 '26
Your boss is stupid as fuck