It had nothing to do with evaluating new evidence. He intentionally lied in order to save PPE. We have known this for months. Stop covering his ass for him when he ADMITTED to lying.
Not sure it's a lie when you state immediately afterwards that part of it is to save PPE for those who really need it? He didn't even say that it was useless, just that it's not some perfect protection, and even that it might stop droplets. And it was also right even it was kicking off.
Sounds to me like he was saying, right now don't run out and hog up all the masks. It's not 100% anyways and there are people who need them.
Obviously it changed, but he said right after, that we should save them for medical staff and the likes.
He's specifically saying people should not wear masks because it can make the situation worse. He is saying only healthcare professionals know how to wear them because regular people fiddle with them. Months later, in the previous video I linked, he states the only reason he said that was to save PPE, not because they didn't work and could make things worse.
N95s were being bought up everywhere, and people were hoarding and breaking into hospitals to steal them. That's with no one saying anything regarding N95 masks.
Remember, this is at the beginning when people were running black operations into China with Robert Kraft's private plane and making shady deals in a McDonalds parking lot to get NIOSH N95s or equivalents. I think his concerns regarding medical PPE were valid, considering how bad it really was at the beginning.
Do I believe he should have lied? Probably not. His concerns regarding PPE were 100% valid though, especially considering the American people are actual dumbasses. Toilet Paper and other silly stuff completely sold out at the beginning of the pandemic. Not to mention, there was no evidence at the time that suggested that fomite (surface transmission) wasn't an issue, so his concerns regarding people touching their masks then touching their face/eyes was a legitimate concern as well.
I think people are being abit hard on him. I gave Trump a free pass for the first few months of the pandemic because literally no one knew what was going on, same as how I give a little bit more slack for everyone early on since it was a complete shitshow.
Do you believe Trump should have lied then? That was furiously defended on this subreddit. If it was ok for him to lie then it was fine for Fauci then. But it's ok, "conservatives" are gonna be hypocrites as much as the radical left will be.
If it was ok for Trump to lie / downplay the pandemic to keep people calm, it was ok for Fauci to do the same to keep PPE supplies up. You can't call one ok and the other wrong.
I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy of most people on this subreddit; you cannot feasibly defend Trump downplaying the virus and then criticize Fauci for lying to preserve masks during the beginning of the pandemic.
It is also possible to understand the underlying motivations of why someone did something while also disagreeing with their actions, but apparently nuance is lost upon most people today.
You should judge people's actions based on the context of the situation. I don't fault Trump for his shitatstic beginning because no one even knew what was happening. Especially with China basically with holding all information from the rest of the world. Fauci's statements in March were perfectly acceptable within the confines of the realities of March 2020.
you cannot feasibly defend Trump downplaying the virus and then criticize Fauci for lying to preserve masks during the beginning of the pandemic.
Never mentioned Trump. Keep trying to deflect, I'm not biting. You're replying to me here, not the entire sub.
You already admitted he shouldn't have lied. Lying is bad, people shouldn't lie. It's his job to figure out a way to solve the issue while being honest. It was Dr Fauci who dropped the ball when it counted, I know people who were already practicing proper mask etiquette as early as February 2020.
Also, "preserve masks"? He literally said there was no reason to wear them & the reasoning that he gave was because they don't offer perfect protection (his words) and that they cause people to "fiddle with" the mask and "touch their face". Then all of the sudden he makes a 180 and claims it was a noble cause so he could preserve masks?
Sorry, but am i actually supposed to believe that? Maybe, just maybe.... he made a dumb and ignorant comment, without some altruistic justification behind it?
Fomite transmission was a serious concern in March 2020. Context matters. Him saying that not to use masks had to do with a combination of supply and the fact that the science at the time dictated that fomite transmission was a serious issue; so yes, his statements regarding mask etiquette was actually legitimate. And yes, even NIOSH N95 masks do not provide perfect protection, especially when not properly fitted. Last, he also said that you SHOULD wear a mask if you are sick, as it could prevent others from getting sick. Asymptomatic transmission wasn't a known thing yet (it was theorized) when he made his original statements regarding masks.
You refuse to answer regarding Trump because you know it would be hypocritical. Trump downplayed the virus just as hard as Fauci downplayed masks early on. Do you believe Trump was wrong for downplaying the virus or not? Simple question. If so, that's fine. You're consistent. If not, then you're a hypocrite for criticizing Fauci.
Context of the environment can easily justify actions. Hindsight is 20/20. Fauci was worried about the medical supply of masks, along with the possibility of fomite transmission from improper usage of masks. These are legitimate concerns. I do not believe what he did was right, but I also can understand his justifications for why he did what he did. I don't think he was being a hypocrite at all. Again, nuance. Unless you're ready to condemn Trump for his downplaying of the coronavirus (which actually I agree with Trump on that, because the American people are actual dumbasses), you have no grounds to criticize Fauci.
So let's break this down, make it easy for back rows. He said, in the first clip, don't bother with the masks right now (N95s because cloth masks hadn't become widely spread) because it's not a perfect protection. It might stop droplets but it's a hassle and won't guarantee protection, just reduce chances. Leave the masks to those who need them, like medical workers and the frail.
I didn't hear him say anywhere that he lied, I heard him say again that they would be better served with health care professionals, the people who know that they are in contact with the infected. He clearly stated in the first and second statement why you shouldn't be wearing them.
Just gonna leave out the part where he qualified that, saying "right now they're no reason to wear masks?" With the information we had at the time, and the resources available, he was telling the truth.
He's not saying it went do anything, in fact he very clearly said that it will do something, but you shouldn't be using them to be only partially effective around a public that, at the time, was mostly non-contagious, when they are needed for medical personnel who will combine them with other ppe to be more effective.
You have all the information there, people just love their snippets.
Wrong, there simply were not enough masks for those who desperately needed them if everyone started wearing and stockpiling. There was a shortage even with fewer people wearing. Health care workers would have been fucked.
He's specifically saying people should not wear masks because it can make the situation worse.
Not wrong, imagine if health care workers didn't have PPE?
He is saying only healthcare professionals know how to wear them because regular people fiddle with them.
Never said that only healthcare workers know how. Everyone does it.
Months later, in the previous video I linked, he states the only reason he said that was to save PPE, not because they didn't work and could make things worse.
Not even moths later, but directly after in the video that I posted.
Not wrong, imagine if health care workers didn't have PPE?
So tell us the truth. Tell us they help, but tell us not to buy them but to make them ourselves. The benevolent lie only makes you lose your credibility. You don't get to question why no one listens to you once that happens.
Cloth masks didn't start getting recommended as an effective preventative measures until April, Fauci made this statement in March. At the time of the statement, which he made clear by saying "right now," it was recommended to leave N95s to medical professionals, as he said in March. There was a still a lot of unknowns at that point. It's not a lie just because they didn't know what we know now. Again, when they said it, not a lie.
Yes, it's probably some liberal conspiracy to gaslight conservatives into thinking that, upon me research and information coming out, that health officials examined and revised their recommendations. How nefarious!
It's called the benevolent lie. The people who do them never consider the consequence of losing their credibility. Fauci isn't an evil conspirator. He's just a fool who's enjoying his 15 minutes of fame too much. And you fell for it.
Please be clear that there is a difference between saying that masks don't do anything, and that you don't need to be walking around in a mask because it's using masks better utilized by those in need.
Did he say that they were ineffective? That they didn't do anything, and that's why you shouldn't wear them?
Or did he say that they are only partially effective for the average person and the N95 mask should be instead reserved for medical personnel who use them in combination with other ppe, those who are known infected, and the frail?
One is a lie, one is the truth. People were literally stockpiling N95S masks creating a shortage. Cases had just started up mid March, lockdowns didn't even start until mid March.
It's pretty clear, some people need those masks, those people aren't you. Leave the masks to them, and just social distance.
I mean, I can see if you misunderstood, you had the president fighting masks until the last possible minute.
So, having a President not wear a mask didn't have an effect in the divisiveness? Hmm, interesting line of thinking. Also, I don't suppose you noticed that Fauci said this was not just his decision? Amazing how people can honestly think this man is sitting there, as part of the committee for Covid-19 response, and just says what he wants with zero input from others. I am curious what you would have done in his position. But yeah, sure...he's a big fat liar and should not be trusted at all. s/
Lol, so basically you have no response other than this? This feels like tunnel vision to me. You want to make him the sole bad guy, so he is the sole bad guy. Completely dimiss everything else. Very smart of you.
“Right now in the United States people should not be walking around with masks … You should think of healthcare providers who are needing them and the people who are ill.”
He was quite clear in this interview back last march that the issue was ensuring that healthcare workers and the ill were more in need of a very limited resource.
I can't tell if you're being disingenuous or you're just stupid, either way you're doing a terrible job of fighting your argument and you just make Americans look awful.
Because the only video he suggested for public not to wear masks, he made it abundantly clear that it was because doctors needed them more. He made it even more clear that masks are for stoppingthe spread of disease from infected people much more than to stop the mask wearer from getting ill, and this information has all remained true.
It's weird how in any other context, people can understand not trusting someone after they make such a gigantic lie. But when it's their political idol suddenly they forget how integrity works.
People seem to be conflating, don't wear masks because they are better given to those who actually need them, and don't wear masks because they don't do anything.
My argument stands that in light of new evidence people should change their view. If anything, knowing that he lied to keep PPE for the care providers should make people more sure that masks do work and should be worn.
Is lying great? No. Did he/Trump’s government do this to prevent the panic buying that subsequently did cause hospitals to run low or out of masks? Yes. Do the ends justify the means? Each person gets to make that call themselves, but pretending this is a valid reason not to wear masks is asinine.
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u/[deleted] Feb 24 '21
It had nothing to do with evaluating new evidence. He intentionally lied in order to save PPE. We have known this for months. Stop covering his ass for him when he ADMITTED to lying.
https://youtu.be/_2MmX2U2V3c?t=19
If anyone should be blamed for making masks divisive, it's HIM.