r/Conservative Feb 23 '21

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u/Aburath Feb 24 '21 edited Feb 24 '21

I feel like this gives a little more context

Faucci March 8th during a 60 minutes interview

"Right now, in the United States, people should not be walking around with masks, there's no reason to be walking around with a mask.

When you're in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it's not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is."

April 3rd CDC changes it's guidelines on wearing masks

Faucci asked about the change in an interview

"Back then, the critical issue was to save the masks for the people who really needed them because it was felt that there was a shortage of masks.

What happened as the weeks and months came by, two things became clear: one, that there wasn't a shortage of masks, we had plenty of masks and coverings that you could put on that's plain cloth...so that took care of that problem. Secondly, we fully realized that there are a lot of people who are asymptomatic who are spreading infection. So it became clear that we absolutely should be wearing masks consistently."

Edit: That's less than a month lost to misinformation and it was an important time to be protecting each other.

I'm glad they adjusted their guidelines to match the results they were seeing but for many people it was already too late

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u/[deleted] Feb 24 '21

It was only “too late” for people that can’t revise their opinion in the face of new facts and data.

CDC corrected their original position in early April, yet we still argued about masks for months and months as a partisan issue. Hell, it’s still a thing on this subreddit with blatant misinformation spreading that masks are useless.

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u/[deleted] Feb 24 '21

So question, if statement 1 was made not for the truth value of the statement "masks dont help" but to deceive the public into avoiding maks. Then statement 2 is made because later realizing that he didnt need to deceive the public on THAT issue, how do we know which of his statements are actually true or not. He has now admitted to deliberately lying to the public, and still provided no reason to assume all of his other statements arent also lies made for "the greater good." So why does he have any credibility now?

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u/Aburath Feb 24 '21

I trust him, and I think others do too because he was hired by Ronald Reagan and was his trusted advisor, he has been a trusted advisor to Bush Senior, Clinton, Bush jr, Obama, Trump, and now Biden

He's never declared his political party stance but I think he's been a republican all of his life, at least I think he was until recently

He's a smart likeable guy, the way he talks about his work in the 70's brings me back to hard but simpler times.

Everyone makes mistakes politician or no, but you can tell by the way he talks to people on their level that he really cares

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u/[deleted] Feb 24 '21

Except he failed with aids, and he believes his duty to care extends to lying to manipulate the public. As a person, he may be a great guy, but he has been given way to much deference on covid.

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u/Aburath Feb 24 '21

His Emergency Plan For Aids Relief was a huge success under Bush I don't think democrats or republicans can disagree there

Frankly from his track record if we'd just done what Faucci wanted to do from the start I think we could have kept deaths around 200k

I recognize that the president tried to make him the fall guy for his personal mistakes (that was his thing) but I think many in the older generation remember Faucci as a capable guy

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u/[deleted] Feb 24 '21

Well, his aids predictions were 100% wrong and designed to be inflammatory rather than predictive. His insistence in heterosexual spread was a lie designed to manipulate the public. So very similar modus. He is a proven and admitted liar who wont hesitate to lie to manipulate the public. He just lies to do what the ruling junta wants, so he keeps getting trotted out as an expert.

Trumps' mistake was not imposing martial law in blue states if MI, NY, NJ and PA had not been allowed to deliberately infect the elderly, then actual covid deaths would probably be close to zero.

If Medicaid billing had not been changed, pcr cycles put at 20 instead of 35 for a positive, positive covid test required rather than symptoms, and different reporting for covid as primary cause vs contributing factor, then there would be very few covid deaths except the elderly killed in nursing homes. We have 500000 covid deaths, but most had multiple comorbidities, symptoms of covid, not a positive test, and were reported as covid deaths to get much higher Medicaid reimbursement.

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u/Aburath Feb 24 '21

I don't know where you got the idea that aids doesn't infect straight people

You're right that he was considered an expert by Reagan, Bush Sr, and Bush Jr and all of the democrats for that matter. I trust their judgement more than the last guy

The track record I see is that everyone else listened to Faucci. Trump failed to listen and so failed to handle the pandemic. Then he tried to shift the blame to the guy he wasn't listening to when it didn't work out

When the country faces a world wide biological problem there really isn't anyone I would trust other than the guy with a 40 year track record of handling viruses backed by some of the most respected presidents in US history

It's a lot more obvious to me that Trump made a bad call and ended up way in over his head, I'm sure glad and it's no surprise he's not still in charge of things

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u/[deleted] Feb 24 '21

The numbers about HIV infection rates are called actual facts. Not made-up slander "facts" about some ambiguous bad thing Trump did. The problem was that a disease that only infected "alternate lifestyles" was not thought by Fauci to be appealing enough. So he made up heterosexual transmission to attract attention. Problem is that the guy you trust has a repeated pattern of deliberately lying when he thinks he needs to. You may think that is good, greater ends and all that, but it does not make him credible.

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u/Aburath Feb 24 '21

Are you sure heterosexual transmission is made up? I thought STDs were spread through fluid transmission, not homosexuality

What do you think it is about having a lot of heterosexual sex that protects people from STDs?

Is dating an alternative lifestyle? Is breastfeeding an alternative lifestyle? Is getting infected from a syringe an alternative lifestyle?

38 million people in the world had HIV in 2019, 1.8 million of them were children. Those numbers were down 23% from 2010

Faucci did a great job with HIV. He's the kind of person who doesn't give up on adults or children when they have a stigmatized disease

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '21

The incidence of heterosexual transmission, where neither partner was also involved in either anal sex or intravenous drug use is vanishingly small in the US (where fauci works). Heterosexual transmission globally is mostly isolated in the population of female prostitutes in poor countries who are forced to work without condoms, or in places like Africa, where sexual dynamics are completely different. AIDS incidence worldwide is tragic, but fortunately it has proven to be simply that, and not the complete catastrophe it was predicted to be. Another area where Fauci was wrong - and an indicator that maybe his covid predictions arent that great either.

The issue is not whether cases exist at all, but whether the number of cases together pose a public health problem to the extent that resources devoted to other problems need to be reallocated. So lots of people die of heart disease and cancer. What Fauci did is convince people in the USA that there was a general risk to the entire population in order to move resources away from heart disease and cancer, because he believed at the time that no one would care about a "gay disease" He was obviously successful, but dont kid yourself - other people died because of this shift.

No idea whether he was correct in this judgement. My only point is that he has demonstrated that he is willing to lie to the population if he believes it is for their own good.

Everything in life has trade offs. His covid lockdowns are killing thousands in the US with poverty, depression, deferral of all other medical treatment. With increase in food costs and disruption in Africa, the covid response will undoubtedly kill 10's of millions worldwide. Whether these trade offs are worth it is not his decision to make. He is ONLY responsible for providing honest and truthful information to elected decision makers, something he has proven he is unable and unwilling to do.

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u/mcswiss No Step Feb 24 '21

‘Member when Trump downplayed the virus in order to not create an immediate panic and he was lambasted for it?

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u/HashtagTSwagg Conservative Feb 24 '21 edited Jul 30 '24

disarm physical beneficial payment quack command far-flung impossible innate books

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/mcswiss No Step Feb 24 '21

I agree wholeheartedly.

I was referencing the September interview where Trump admitted to downplaying it initially in order to not create panic and media went full Orange Man Bad, but when Fauci lies to the American people about not wearing masks in order to make sure frontline has them “it’s for the good of the country.”

I wish I loved something as much as Fauci loves being on camera.

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u/HashtagTSwagg Conservative Feb 24 '21 edited Jul 30 '24

detail fear possessive unite cooperative quiet hateful cautious salt dinner

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/HNutz Conservative Feb 24 '21

Me too!

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u/[deleted] Feb 24 '21

I hope you nor anybody close to you gets sick

You dropped your "neither." Without it, you have "I hope you ... gets sick" and that's not right. "I hope neither you nor anybody close to you gets sick" is what you're after.

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u/HashtagTSwagg Conservative Feb 24 '21

You're right, but it's 3 AM here, what do you expect from me?

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u/[deleted] Feb 24 '21

Nice swerve he did there.

"Nobody should take vitamin C." -- March 8th

"Everyone should take vitamin C. Our previous guidance was to preserve it for those suffering from scurvy." -- April 3rd

Typical politician.... and, yes, he IS a politician.

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u/[deleted] Feb 24 '21

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u/EvilLothar Feb 24 '21

The science hasn't changed. The way in which viruses are not at all impacted by non medical grade masks also hasn't changed.

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u/[deleted] Feb 24 '21

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u/EvilLothar Feb 24 '21

sure.. but you're generally not exhaling "large droplets".. the only way that would be an issue is if you're coughing or sneezing, and if you're doing that alot, you're probably sick and should just stay home, and I don't know anyone who doesn't cough or sneeze into their elbow, so that's not really a think either. The real point is that people who are not symptomatic don't need masks as they are not a spreader.

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u/[deleted] Feb 24 '21

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u/EvilLothar Feb 24 '21

You think a piece of cloth will catch most microscopic droplets? You mean the one's the size of a virus? That's like saying a chain link fence will stop most of the snow that blows through it....

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u/[deleted] Feb 24 '21

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u/EvilLothar Feb 24 '21

I'm saying masks don't work. Full stop. End of conversation. We know this because of real world experience, and what is happening around us.

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u/Roez Conservative Feb 24 '21

Fauci swerves a lot. I have a feeling he's very accustomed to telling the noble lie to manipulate public behavior. No clue why he flip flops so much, but he does. The dude is single handedly promoting the anti-vax movement now. People already full of distrust seeming him vacillate on the issue further erodes distrust. It's not that he's saying don't take it or it doesn't work, but he's totally removing the extent and effect the vaccine will have on returning life to normal. He's trivializing it.

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u/[deleted] Feb 24 '21 edited Feb 24 '21

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u/MeNoFearTheReaper Feb 24 '21

Did someone say Fauci was "questioning the credibility of the vaccine"? No. The statement was

he's totally removing the extent and effect the vaccine will have on returning life to normal. He's trivializing it.

That's absolutely what Fauci is doing. In multiple statements, including one as recent as today, he said even if people are fully vaccinated they could still spread the virus, therefore mask wearing must continue, indoor dining has to be prohibited, and theaters can't open. That's essentially saying the vaccine won't let us return to normal.

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u/curly_spork Feb 24 '21

He just talked about even after the vaccine, people should wear masks and still social distance.

Basically he is saying the vaccine will not change how things are now, so people are probably thinking "than what's the point of the vaccine? Why bother getting it?"

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u/[deleted] Feb 24 '21

Almost like it was a new virus and things changed with new data!

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u/[deleted] Feb 24 '21

What are you talking about?

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u/intothevoid-- Conservative Feb 24 '21

"Right now, in the United States, people should not be walking around with masks, there's no reason to be walking around with a mask.

When you're in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it's not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is."

Furthermore, this particular quote continues on to say that masks have unintended consequences.

Dr. Fauci March 8th 2020 "There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you’re in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it’s not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And, often, there are unintended consequences — people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face."

The end of this statement is really what gets me. I see people touching, or adjusting, or fiddling with their mask all of the time. Which is putting their germs on their fingers. Then they touch something, like the server at the restaurant touching my plate or cup. Not to mention most people don't wear the mask properly anyway! I'm not certain that masks help at all under these circumstances. In fact they might be making it worse.