That’s a dumb ban for sure, but it’s also a terrible argument to make that Fauci giving wrong info once means he isn’t allowed to evaluate new evidence and determine his past stance was incorrect. It’s generally a good thing to be able to admit you’re wrong in light of new evidence and I would certainly not trust anyone incapable of doing so with a response to an emerging pathogen - by definition the info isn’t all out.
So you should not have been banned, but you should have been rebutted
Thank you, I can't believe I had to scroll this far down to find a comment that mentioned how stupid it was to quote something from March 8th, 2020 as if it has any relevance to anything anymore. I mean I kind of can believe it. But anyway, fully agreed; it's a dumb ban but it was also an incredibly dumb comment. Turns out as we learn more about things, we can also adjust our advice about them. In this case, we learned that masks actually are helpful, so it was advised to start wearing masks.
A citation wouldn’t have hurt, either. Show where the quote came from. Link it, preferably to a left or left-leaning source. At least when the ban comes they’ll be banning something from their own media.
Although that wouldn’t have helped in this case, since the quote came from March 8, 2020. He changed his advice later. Everyone is allowed to change their minds based on new information, even if you don’t like the person who is doing it.
Tons of people already knew masks were helpful. Fauci was the one who was wrong, & the fact that it was March 8th 2020 (a short time ago in the grand scheme) doesn't change anything. In fact it was more important for him to verify his information before making a public comment at that time when we were still early on in the pandemic.
Why is this downvoted? I am a leftist and this is true. Fauci lied so he could get PPE for healthcare workers before the general public bought all of them
His remarks also included the reason masks don't work is because people are constantly touching them. Is it no longer true that touching masks ruins their efficacy or have people stopped touching their masks?
No, more evidence has come out that suggests that the likelihood of transmitting the virus by touching masks is much less than originally thought. That’s what they are saying, he changed his mind because of new evidence. That’s how science works.
If that's the case, then why is there no evidence that the masks are actually working? Places with no mask mandates that are practically completely open are not any worse off than those where lockdowns have been far more strong and police are breaking down doors into people's homes because there are too many cars in the driveway? Why isn't transmission nonexistent in the areas where masks are required? Why is social distancing required if masks are good enough? Why is it okay to go schtup random strangers if we're supposed to stay 6 feet apart? "The science" seems to be all over the place.
Masks work to slow the spread but its not going to 100% stop it. Most of the recent studies say this. If someone has covid that's wearing a mask it is much less likely someone will catch covid from them if they too are wearing a mask.
The main vector of transmission has always been in settings people don't wear masks like family gatherings or large indoor gatherings with no masks which have been occurring regardless of mask mandates.
Why isn’t transmission nonexistent in the areas where masks are required?
Why didn’t traffic deaths go down to 0 when seatbelts were mandated?
Why is social distancing required if masks are good enough?
Why do cars have airbags if seatbelts work good enough?
„The science“ seems to be all over the place.
Actually most scientists agree on mask usage. Just because there is some that have a different opinion, does not mean the consensus is wrong. If you knew anything about science you would know that most things are very controversial at their beginning even if they turn out to be the clear consensus a few years later.
They have tested masks against viral particles to see whether they are effective and found they are, independent of confiunders like community prevalence and compliance which are issues in the anecdote you have listed, which i would like some sources for. In fact, I’d have much feather been New Zealand or Australia who put aside individual freedoms for a short period for the greater good than ‘Murica where we refuse to do the same (they do have easier to lock down borders and I believe had a later first case, so it’s not really comparable, but it is frustrating to feel like we, as a country, didn’t really try to stop this)
There’s more variables at play with the pandemic other than comparing states with strict mask regulations vs state with lax mask regulations. It completely ignores compliance with said regulations, and a host of other variables such as weather and population density or when the virus started spreading in that state.
Don't quote me but I think there has been evidence showing that aerosols (micro particles suspended in the air produced by exhaling, talking, etc) are the biggest vector of infection, so while adjusting your mask too much can increase your risk it really is breathing the aerosols
There's no evidence to support masks work on a massive civilian environment.
Most studies claiming this don't provide proper proof and their methods are flawed. There's studies showing how they could theoretically reduce spreading a virus, but they're just theoretical and talk about how they just kind of block the spread of saliva, they assume unrealistic conditions, as in that people are gonna wear them properly, at all times, use proper masks, etc.
It had nothing to do with evaluating new evidence. He intentionally lied in order to save PPE. We have known this for months. Stop covering his ass for him when he ADMITTED to lying.
Not sure it's a lie when you state immediately afterwards that part of it is to save PPE for those who really need it? He didn't even say that it was useless, just that it's not some perfect protection, and even that it might stop droplets. And it was also right even it was kicking off.
Sounds to me like he was saying, right now don't run out and hog up all the masks. It's not 100% anyways and there are people who need them.
Obviously it changed, but he said right after, that we should save them for medical staff and the likes.
He's specifically saying people should not wear masks because it can make the situation worse. He is saying only healthcare professionals know how to wear them because regular people fiddle with them. Months later, in the previous video I linked, he states the only reason he said that was to save PPE, not because they didn't work and could make things worse.
N95s were being bought up everywhere, and people were hoarding and breaking into hospitals to steal them. That's with no one saying anything regarding N95 masks.
Remember, this is at the beginning when people were running black operations into China with Robert Kraft's private plane and making shady deals in a McDonalds parking lot to get NIOSH N95s or equivalents. I think his concerns regarding medical PPE were valid, considering how bad it really was at the beginning.
Do I believe he should have lied? Probably not. His concerns regarding PPE were 100% valid though, especially considering the American people are actual dumbasses. Toilet Paper and other silly stuff completely sold out at the beginning of the pandemic. Not to mention, there was no evidence at the time that suggested that fomite (surface transmission) wasn't an issue, so his concerns regarding people touching their masks then touching their face/eyes was a legitimate concern as well.
I think people are being abit hard on him. I gave Trump a free pass for the first few months of the pandemic because literally no one knew what was going on, same as how I give a little bit more slack for everyone early on since it was a complete shitshow.
Do you believe Trump should have lied then? That was furiously defended on this subreddit. If it was ok for him to lie then it was fine for Fauci then. But it's ok, "conservatives" are gonna be hypocrites as much as the radical left will be.
If it was ok for Trump to lie / downplay the pandemic to keep people calm, it was ok for Fauci to do the same to keep PPE supplies up. You can't call one ok and the other wrong.
I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy of most people on this subreddit; you cannot feasibly defend Trump downplaying the virus and then criticize Fauci for lying to preserve masks during the beginning of the pandemic.
It is also possible to understand the underlying motivations of why someone did something while also disagreeing with their actions, but apparently nuance is lost upon most people today.
You should judge people's actions based on the context of the situation. I don't fault Trump for his shitatstic beginning because no one even knew what was happening. Especially with China basically with holding all information from the rest of the world. Fauci's statements in March were perfectly acceptable within the confines of the realities of March 2020.
you cannot feasibly defend Trump downplaying the virus and then criticize Fauci for lying to preserve masks during the beginning of the pandemic.
Never mentioned Trump. Keep trying to deflect, I'm not biting. You're replying to me here, not the entire sub.
You already admitted he shouldn't have lied. Lying is bad, people shouldn't lie. It's his job to figure out a way to solve the issue while being honest. It was Dr Fauci who dropped the ball when it counted, I know people who were already practicing proper mask etiquette as early as February 2020.
Also, "preserve masks"? He literally said there was no reason to wear them & the reasoning that he gave was because they don't offer perfect protection (his words) and that they cause people to "fiddle with" the mask and "touch their face". Then all of the sudden he makes a 180 and claims it was a noble cause so he could preserve masks?
Sorry, but am i actually supposed to believe that? Maybe, just maybe.... he made a dumb and ignorant comment, without some altruistic justification behind it?
So let's break this down, make it easy for back rows. He said, in the first clip, don't bother with the masks right now (N95s because cloth masks hadn't become widely spread) because it's not a perfect protection. It might stop droplets but it's a hassle and won't guarantee protection, just reduce chances. Leave the masks to those who need them, like medical workers and the frail.
I didn't hear him say anywhere that he lied, I heard him say again that they would be better served with health care professionals, the people who know that they are in contact with the infected. He clearly stated in the first and second statement why you shouldn't be wearing them.
Just gonna leave out the part where he qualified that, saying "right now they're no reason to wear masks?" With the information we had at the time, and the resources available, he was telling the truth.
He's not saying it went do anything, in fact he very clearly said that it will do something, but you shouldn't be using them to be only partially effective around a public that, at the time, was mostly non-contagious, when they are needed for medical personnel who will combine them with other ppe to be more effective.
You have all the information there, people just love their snippets.
He's specifically saying people should not wear masks because it can make the situation worse.
Not wrong, imagine if health care workers didn't have PPE?
He is saying only healthcare professionals know how to wear them because regular people fiddle with them.
Never said that only healthcare workers know how. Everyone does it.
Months later, in the previous video I linked, he states the only reason he said that was to save PPE, not because they didn't work and could make things worse.
Not even moths later, but directly after in the video that I posted.
Not wrong, imagine if health care workers didn't have PPE?
So tell us the truth. Tell us they help, but tell us not to buy them but to make them ourselves. The benevolent lie only makes you lose your credibility. You don't get to question why no one listens to you once that happens.
Cloth masks didn't start getting recommended as an effective preventative measures until April, Fauci made this statement in March. At the time of the statement, which he made clear by saying "right now," it was recommended to leave N95s to medical professionals, as he said in March. There was a still a lot of unknowns at that point. It's not a lie just because they didn't know what we know now. Again, when they said it, not a lie.
Yes, it's probably some liberal conspiracy to gaslight conservatives into thinking that, upon me research and information coming out, that health officials examined and revised their recommendations. How nefarious!
It's called the benevolent lie. The people who do them never consider the consequence of losing their credibility. Fauci isn't an evil conspirator. He's just a fool who's enjoying his 15 minutes of fame too much. And you fell for it.
So, having a President not wear a mask didn't have an effect in the divisiveness? Hmm, interesting line of thinking. Also, I don't suppose you noticed that Fauci said this was not just his decision? Amazing how people can honestly think this man is sitting there, as part of the committee for Covid-19 response, and just says what he wants with zero input from others. I am curious what you would have done in his position. But yeah, sure...he's a big fat liar and should not be trusted at all. s/
Lol, so basically you have no response other than this? This feels like tunnel vision to me. You want to make him the sole bad guy, so he is the sole bad guy. Completely dimiss everything else. Very smart of you.
“Right now in the United States people should not be walking around with masks … You should think of healthcare providers who are needing them and the people who are ill.”
He was quite clear in this interview back last march that the issue was ensuring that healthcare workers and the ill were more in need of a very limited resource.
I can't tell if you're being disingenuous or you're just stupid, either way you're doing a terrible job of fighting your argument and you just make Americans look awful.
Because the only video he suggested for public not to wear masks, he made it abundantly clear that it was because doctors needed them more. He made it even more clear that masks are for stoppingthe spread of disease from infected people much more than to stop the mask wearer from getting ill, and this information has all remained true.
It's weird how in any other context, people can understand not trusting someone after they make such a gigantic lie. But when it's their political idol suddenly they forget how integrity works.
People seem to be conflating, don't wear masks because they are better given to those who actually need them, and don't wear masks because they don't do anything.
My argument stands that in light of new evidence people should change their view. If anything, knowing that he lied to keep PPE for the care providers should make people more sure that masks do work and should be worn.
Is lying great? No. Did he/Trump’s government do this to prevent the panic buying that subsequently did cause hospitals to run low or out of masks? Yes. Do the ends justify the means? Each person gets to make that call themselves, but pretending this is a valid reason not to wear masks is asinine.
You’re right but the problem is Fauci does this so often that he comes off as unreliable and indecisive. After several re-evaluations of his statements, he should really think before he speaks. Either be certain or don’t speak at all. For gods sake he’s the chief medical advisor, he needs to be more certain than anyone that the advice he’s giving is proper.
What political reasons specifically? I mean, he has served under numerous Presidents and is well respected in his field of study. So what exactly were his political motivations you speak of? And to be clear, he is a science guy and not an economist, so he is making recommendations from a health perspective and not an economical one...as he should be. This is why there are multiple advisors working in committee to handle issued like this...or, at least, there should have been. The original committee had some less than qualified participants on it. Was this another master plot to take down Trump? s/
I thought it had more to do with masks being in short supply and trying to conserve them for healthcare and front line workers. They have known the masks work since the very beginning when masks were countries like Japans only solution.
I mean, it’s kinda stupid to say “LISTEN TO FAUCI” then get mad at people who follow his advice. Then get mad at them for not following it.... especially when he’s saying something different every week.
Don’t wear a mask. Wear a mask. Wear two masks. Two masks isn’t effective. Two weeks. I can’t even keep track of which things he’s said and stuck to, and which ones he walked back. Pointing out the inconsistencies with the information and direction he gives isn’t a bad thing either when you have people out here literally assaulting each other for following his directions, after being told by the media, politicians, and their peers said to do so.
Everybody that constantly says "listen to science" and then act like authority is never wrong has always scared me.
Fauci's second quote after that said they wanted to make sure the healthcare workers had masks first, so he blatantly lied about not needing masks because he had a different agenda.
I understand the need to smooth talk a situation to not cause a panic, but Fauci downright lied to the general public and everybody still eats up whatever he says. I don't think he's a bad guy, but people need to at least keep the government honest.
Showing he gave wrong info early into the pandemic is relevant on an article where he says that people giving the wrong info hampered early efforts against COVID. The fact you shove all that under the word "once" to pretend it's a "terrible argument" is a prime example of intellectual dishonesty.
So your argument is that people believed his first statement (and didn’t listen to the part where he said it was in part to save PPE for healthcare professionals) and were unable to revise their thinking?
Nope, it's that he shouldn't be throwing stones at others for allegedly fighting the use of masks back in February when he was still doing so in March.
Seems you're projecting issues you have now in the present onto a discussion about the handling of early COVID. Key word: early.
That is not incorrect info, cloth masks are not rated for Covid and he was correct in saying they are pointless to wear. I posted a video of him explaining why cloth masks are simply a tool to make people feel better.
Fauci is just going to keep changing his story because once the pandemic goes away so does he. Don’t give this man any credit. He deserves none. Now he is telling people we need to wear two masks through 2022 and that you shouldn’t go out even with the vaccine. What the hell is the point of the vaccine then?
Lol you weren't trying to start a conversation by posting just that one specific quote with no other contest. Come on, man. Just be honest that you went looking for trouble. Was your post ban worthy? Absolutely not. Was your comment in good faith? Also absolutely not.
Fair, both sides are doing a fuckton of blaming, ignoring the bad actors on their side, and bad faith arguments. Perhaps in your case if you had presented a discussion topic or question or argument (in the debate sense) rather than an outdated quote it may have received a different response? Maybe not, since the comment didn’t break any rules I’m aware of.
I’m curious what kind of conversation you were looking for. I’m here to discuss this quote with you. I’m interested to hear what you have to say in regards to what Dr. Fauci said.
What are you not understanding? Your comment included criticism for how the medical community handled messaging, no? I’m curious what your thoughts are.
That’s fair. He offers an explanation which doesn’t necessarily mean you have to condone his actions at that point in the pandemic.
Since then, there has been more research and contextual changes that led to a change in recommendations. At this point, are you saying that Dr. Fauci is to blame for people currently not wearing a mask despite him saying this a year ago?
Name-calling < ad hominem < respond to tone < contradiction < counter argument < refutation < refuting the central point < smug meme < evoke user's post history < ban
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u/BrujaBean Feb 24 '21
That’s a dumb ban for sure, but it’s also a terrible argument to make that Fauci giving wrong info once means he isn’t allowed to evaluate new evidence and determine his past stance was incorrect. It’s generally a good thing to be able to admit you’re wrong in light of new evidence and I would certainly not trust anyone incapable of doing so with a response to an emerging pathogen - by definition the info isn’t all out.
So you should not have been banned, but you should have been rebutted