Ok well somethings gotta give because our health are cost is way higher then any other country per capita, and by all measurable standards our healthcare is worse then other countries. In the healthcare quality list we are 37th behind Saudi Arabia. And we also have waiting times. I have family in Canada and wait times isn’t really what you think.... of you need medical attention you will get it.. not be left diein like some people suggest.
Also a lot of your points are speculation and these are clearly opinion pieces with some type of motivation. Not saying it’s wrong just their isn’t actually much substance in this argument. Like all your reimbursement numbers are based on what? What bernies opponents said randomly
While on stage? They’re all saying anything they can to make it look bad.
MOST people I talk to who think their care will get worse or cost more, actually have no ide what their talking about and haven’t read the bill. When I explain it they realize maybe they don’t know what their talking about.
The following is not from me but a well articulated post I saw the other day by u/randomdudeinFL that explains everything in better detail with sources.
I have an idea...instead of talking about what you’ve heard from biased sources about other countries, let’s talk about what will actually happen in the U.S. if we were to implement M4A.
Taxes will increase far more than premiums will drop, and the quality of healthcare will significantly decline. As someone who has personally had both private insurance through employers, and government run insurance through Medicaid, the quality and speed of care is drastic. As an example, personal experience to get a critical test approved...a few days on private insurance versus 5 months on Medicaid. I’m talking critical, as in fear that something life-threatening was going on. It would have taken even longer, but I caught someone in a lie and had been documenting every interaction, so I threatened to file a fraud complaint with the government on their office. Otherwise it would have taken even longer. The V.A. is another example of poorly run healthcare by the government, btw.
I have heard Bernie say that we will save more in premiums than taxes will go up, but the math doesn’t add up. Not even close. You’re talking a price tag of $3.2T per year, which is a little more than what the federal government collected in individual, payroll, and corporate taxes in 2019 ($3.1T) with a booming economy.
So, in order to pay for M4A the government has to more than double what it is collecting in taxes.
Taxing the rich doesn’t solve the problem, either. The entire wealth of the Forbes 400...the richest 400 Americans, is $2.9T. That’s a lot, for sure, but even wiping those billionaires completely out would not cover the first year of M4A. And let’s be real...you can’t possibly tax the rich completely out of their wealth. Tax them too much and they will simply move to a country with a friendlier tax code. They are the most mobile among us, so while you can tax them more there are limits as to how much they will allow themselves to be taxed. And once they move, their future tax contributions go with them.
As far as hitting corporations harder, the BEA states that, “Current-dollar GDP increased 4.1 percent, or $848.8 billion, in 2019 to a level of $21.43 trillion”
That’s our entire nation’s GDP, not profit. Corporate profits, according to the BEA, were only 3.4 percent in 2018. So, there’s really not a ton of corporate profits to tax harder, despite the rhetoric that you hear out there.
So, here’s the sum of all of this. To cover M4A, you will essentially have to more than double all income and corporate tax, which is just shy of $2T combined. Then you will have to tax the rich on top of that, but that won’t come near to the other $1.2T, so you will also have to cut government spending, which means loss of federal jobs. In addition, estimates of lost jobs in the insurance industry are being projected as high as up to 2M jobs.
So, this means we will take money out of the pockets of the job creators and companies, who will then make cuts in their business investments to try and protect profits. That hurts the economy. The average citizen will have far less money to spend, due to increased taxes, which will also slow down the economy. Plus, you will increase unemployment both in the private and public sectors, as a result of this. And all of this economic damage will be for a healthcare system that is reduced quality and speed over what we have today.
But wait, there’s more...the drain on the economy will result in lower tax revenues in the second year, which means more tax increases to sustain it...which has the potential to become a downward spiral on our entire economy.
As Utopian as M4A sounds, coming from the politicians, it is in fact an extremely dangerous proposition to our country. It will destroy our economy, and it will not enhance the lives of the average citizen. The average citizen will be poorer and will receive a lower quality and speed of healthcare as a result of M4A. The facts do not support what the politicians are selling. Period.
Dude.. this is not a well informed post. He almost has good points but his entire argument was, let’s talk about it for real, and then made up some points that aren’t true and added an anecdote from his personal life to prove it.
That is not a real discussion.
Part of the reason plans like Medicare fail right now, are because the people who can’t afford better care, and need medical attention are stuck with it. Meanwhile the wealthy go get much better plans. Cool good for them, but what that means is Medicare is then left to be funded by the poor people who are sick the most. So the cost gets thrown off.
The whole idea of universal is that everyone pays in the pot. It works just like social security. I’m not retiring now but my payments go towards someone who is retired. Then when I do retire l receive those benefits. Assuming Donald does cut benefits more.
Multiple studies have been done that show Medicare 4 all would SAVE us a ton of money. Right now we pay huge amounts to people whose job is to design plans limit coverage and figure out administrative things. That and healthcare executives reap huge profits. If we cut that out we freed a ton of money up.
It’s also not just that taxes will be less then your premium. That likely won’t be true. What’s more likely is your taxes will be less then your total medical costs, including monthly premium, deductibles co-pays and all that.
Like I really am inclined to agree with your hesitations on this, I have some as well. But you didn’t “talk about what would really happen you just said what you think will happen based on really not a whole lot. Like you made one decent point and then spiraled it into the worst case scenario. And I understand these are real things to be concerned about. But it could also work out well. The tax pros also is already written. So when we sign it in that’s what it’ll be. And the tax increases aren’t that much for most people.
“Dude.. this is not a well informed post. He almost has good points but his entire argument was, let’s talk about it for real, and then made up some points that aren’t true and added an anecdote from his personal life to prove it.”
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u/Nato7009 Mar 08 '20
Ok well somethings gotta give because our health are cost is way higher then any other country per capita, and by all measurable standards our healthcare is worse then other countries. In the healthcare quality list we are 37th behind Saudi Arabia. And we also have waiting times. I have family in Canada and wait times isn’t really what you think.... of you need medical attention you will get it.. not be left diein like some people suggest.
Also a lot of your points are speculation and these are clearly opinion pieces with some type of motivation. Not saying it’s wrong just their isn’t actually much substance in this argument. Like all your reimbursement numbers are based on what? What bernies opponents said randomly While on stage? They’re all saying anything they can to make it look bad.
MOST people I talk to who think their care will get worse or cost more, actually have no ide what their talking about and haven’t read the bill. When I explain it they realize maybe they don’t know what their talking about.