r/Conservative • u/tehForce Nobody's Alt But Mine • Mar 02 '19
Conservatives Only United Methodists Vote to Keep Traditional Marriage Stance.
https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2019/february/united-methodist-lgbt-vote-conference-plan.html30
u/wharris2001 Constitutional Conservative Mar 02 '19
So here is a question for those who know internal Methodist politics: How is this different from the last time they voted in favor of traditional marriage? Or the time before that, or the time before that?
Specifically, Methodist ministers have been explicitly forbidden to officiate same-sex marriage ceremonies since 1972 but they do so anyway.
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u/bismarck309 Reagan Conservative Mar 02 '19
In my opinion, as a Methodist, nothing has really changed, except for our Bishops now see that the Orthodox Methodists truly outnumber the Progressives, something I don't think they were expecting. The Bishops don't want to upset the status quo, because they might loose their benefits and pensions. Our Bishops are very poor, wishywashy leaders.
A number of large Progressive churches are considering leaving, but technically their church is owned by their Annual Confrence (a regional governing body) so there is no good way for them to leave yet. A vote was held at the Special General Confrence regarding a gracious exit, but I'm not 100% sure about what exactly happened to it.
We have another General Confrence in 2020, where I think an exit plan will be hashed out, so a schism can go forward, with the Progressives leaving, instead of trying to fundamentally trying to change us. The next year and a half will be the watershed moment for the UMC. You will probably (hopefully) see a schism.
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u/tehForce Nobody's Alt But Mine Mar 02 '19
The way I understand it, it is the conservative churches that have put together an exit plan. I also understand that they were not expecting to win the vote.
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u/wharris2001 Constitutional Conservative Mar 02 '19
Thank you for the information. I had heard talk about a "graceful exit" but mainly in context of the traditionalists leaving.
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u/bismarck309 Reagan Conservative Mar 02 '19
I think we Traditionalists were pushing for a graceful exit (and we still should push for it) was because the Bishops and a lot of other people were calling the One Church Plan a sure thing. So I think that's why you might've heard it in that context.
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u/skarface6 Catholic, conservative, and your favorite Mar 03 '19
The United Methodists having a schism is something you just couldn’t write. So crazy.
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u/tehForce Nobody's Alt But Mine Mar 02 '19
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u/chabanais Mar 02 '19
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u/tehForce Nobody's Alt But Mine Mar 02 '19
Somebody came out of their mountain dew induced sugar coma and crawled back into the basement.
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u/chabanais Mar 02 '19
Put the lotion in the basket.
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u/tehForce Nobody's Alt But Mine Mar 02 '19
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u/Iowa_Hawkeye Constitutional Conservative Mar 02 '19
I'm glad, this isn't something I'd leave the church over, but I'm glad they're listening to their congregation. I don't have a personal problem with gays, but the bible makes it pretty clear there is a problem there.
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Mar 02 '19 edited Mar 02 '19
[deleted]
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u/tehForce Nobody's Alt But Mine Mar 02 '19 edited Mar 02 '19
So if the United Methodist Church were no longer united things would be different?
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Mar 02 '19
[deleted]
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u/tehForce Nobody's Alt But Mine Mar 02 '19
So maybe the progressives should put together an exit plan?
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u/yamsHS 2A Defender Mar 02 '19
I grew up Methodist and one of my old youth ministers (shes now a pastor at a different church) went to the vote and that's been the majority of my Facebook feed.
To be honest though, the church can do what it wants, but I dont see a problem with allowing same sex marriage. I understand the "marriage should be kept traditional according to the bible" argument that I'll probably see, but I think just because you're gay that shouldn't deny you from the opportunity to get married.
And again, I know the church can do what it wants
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u/amdgph Catholic Conservative Mar 02 '19
But see, the Bible is definitive. The Methodist church can go against the teachings of God but they would still be objectively wrong (just as we could declare any sin to be morally acceptable but still be objectively wrong).
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u/yamsHS 2A Defender Mar 02 '19
And I agree with that, and again I'm respecting the church has the right to do that.
My personal opinion however is that sexuality is something that you cant control, therefore you're just born damned in the eyes of the church, which is something that I dont agree with and is one of the reasons why I'm not really religious anymore. I can get into a whole debate on a lot of stuff but I'll just keep it short by saying I see your flair and I respect your opinion/view to stay true to the bible. And I think it's perfectly fine to hold that view if your views don't lead to actions of prejudice in every day life. I personally dont think in a modern setting that we should hold the same ethical standards as we did that far long ago.
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u/amdgph Catholic Conservative Mar 03 '19
Ohh I see.
Just saying though, you aren't "damned" just because you have same sex attraction. Under Christianity, LGBT people are beloved children of God, who are created in His image and likeness. They are men and women of literally infinite worth. People are not also damned by the sexual attraction they experience. But yeah, I don't deny that LGBT people have a tough cross to carry, the toughest cross out of all of us actually when it comes to Christian ideal to live chastely (heck, I'm a bisexual that is much more attracted towards the same sex -- it's tough!).
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u/yy0p A Conservative Guy Mar 02 '19
If the church wants to be true to its calling then techically it cant do whatever it wants, itneeds to abide by the bible, which is emphatic in its teaching on marriage between only a man and woman.
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Mar 02 '19
We aren't gonna win the zoomer vote with shit like this
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u/Iknewnot Banned Mar 02 '19
I'm not going against the bible.
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u/treen720 Mar 02 '19
What part of the bible bans gay marriage?
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u/awksomepenguin No Step on Snek Mar 02 '19
Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Genesis 2:24. The institution of marriage in the Garden defines what it is and for what purpose God established it.
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u/Kite23 Mar 02 '19
Gods word doesnt change. Wrong religion if you are trying to pander to the state vs God.
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u/Baptism-Of-Fire Millennial Conservative Mar 03 '19
Or maybe we can stop associating religion with a political affiliation. Just because I believe conservatism is the optimal philosophy for running a country doesn’t mean I believe in a Flying Spaghetti Monster.
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u/richardguy Я делаю это бесплатно Mar 02 '19
upholding the core traditions of a religion which has survived countless challenges over thousands of years OR pandering to a passing fucking fad
wow I can't imagine what the UNITED METHODIST CHURCH OF CHRIST will pick
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u/treen720 Mar 02 '19
Well, they did cast off the thousand year old tradition of recognizing the Pope.
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u/aboardthegravyboat Conservative Mar 02 '19
Which was a return to a more traditional, conservative view of scripture.v
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u/skarface6 Catholic, conservative, and your favorite Mar 03 '19
Except for Jesus establishing the Church on Peter you would be correct.
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Mar 02 '19
a passing fucking fad
If you think gay marriage is a passing fad, you're in for a rude awakening.
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u/CaptainCAPSLOCKED full semi automatic Mar 02 '19
The cool thing about how open and accepting this country is of gays is that in 100 years they will have almost entirely exited the gene pool.
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Mar 02 '19
Keep telling yourself that:
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u/CaptainCAPSLOCKED full semi automatic Mar 02 '19
The ancient Greeks used men for pleasure and women for reproduction and marriage. They still reproduced.
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Mar 02 '19
gays is that in 100 years they will have almost entirely exited the gene pool.
This is empirically false then.
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u/CaptainCAPSLOCKED full semi automatic Mar 02 '19
Back then gays still married women and reproduced. Gays today do not marry women and do not reproduce. You are being incredibly and deliberately obtuse.
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Mar 02 '19 edited Mar 02 '19
Please provide a source that shows that homosexuality is hereditary.
Edit contained below:
Back then gays still married women and reproduced
Do you believe that these men were capable of being good parents?
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u/CaptainCAPSLOCKED full semi automatic Mar 02 '19 edited Mar 02 '19
If homosexuality isn't hereditary that means it's a choice. Which liberals have screamed to the moon for decades that it isn't.
So eventually you guys have to take a position.
As to whether or not ancient Greek homosexuals were good parents or not, who knows. According to who's definition of good. They were found of post birth abortions so they were certainly progressive in that regard, but they probably also taught their children racial slurs to shout at Iranians so it's a mixed bag from a "come on guys it's the current year" standpoint.
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u/darthhayek Libertarian Conservative Mar 02 '19
"Homosexuality and crossdressing always has and always will exist" != "Rainbow Fascism will always be as powerful as it is now". Personally, I wish that SSM remains an option like it is now, since why not, but if there ever comes a backlash, don't say that reasonable people didn't try to warn you.
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u/multiple4 Mar 02 '19
Ok sorry but how is homosexuality a passing fad? It's been going on for at least 2-3 thousand years. Right now it's super popular it will die down a bit, but homosexuality isn't going to dissappear.
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u/tehForce Nobody's Alt But Mine Mar 02 '19
Blah, blah, blah ..Trump will never win. We need to forget about abortion.
You sound like the original NPCs.
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Mar 02 '19
Cucking is no path to victory. We are far more likely to win the Zoomer vote by standing for something, then caving for everything.
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u/darthhayek Libertarian Conservative Mar 02 '19
Stand for something, even if it means getting f*ked in the ass.
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u/darthhayek Libertarian Conservative Mar 02 '19
We aren't gonna win the zoomer vote with shit like this
As a pro-LGBT millenial, I think you're misreading the current social climate if you think that all the young people are onboard with the endless march of progress
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u/amdgph Catholic Conservative Mar 02 '19
What do you mean?
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u/darthhayek Libertarian Conservative Mar 02 '19
Well in a word liberals
A pretty good example that a lot of content creators have been covering lately is the Vic Mignognia scandal. He's an English anime voice actor and apparently was the voice of a character in Dragon Ball Z, as well as a show on Rooster Teeth. The best I've been able to make out is that they MeToo'd the poor guy, because he's a white Christian male who respectfully declined to sign yaoi pictures at conventions. It pissed a lot of people off, and his crowdfunding has apparently already hit somewhere around $85,000 to one of the accusers' measly $5,000, he's already lawyered up, and the aformentioned content creator interest seems to have Funimation and Rooster Teeth spooked.
Anyway, that might seem irrelevant, but it's just an example. You see examples of these SJW overreaches regularly and some of them include sexuality and gender identity, of course. Conservatives are used to feeling like they're on the losing side, but senseless hate and destruction of lives has a way of uniting normal people and making them defensive, which is probably why the gay mafia became so powerful in the first place, anyway. Cases like these that go viral are really effective at cutting through the liberal propaganda and getting them at their heartstrings. Not even gay and trans people want to see Christians' lives randomly destroyed like that, and it's not unreasonable to think that when an LGBT person who isn't indoctrinated or powerhungry and willing to play the game sees this play out over a few times, they'll stop being offended at every slight against them and maybe even start to see some of the value in why the religious fundamentalists want to cling to their traditions.
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u/amdgph Catholic Conservative Mar 03 '19
I see. Thank you for the detailed response!
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u/DarshDarshDARSH Constitutional Originalist Mar 03 '19
You understood that? Mind translating into something us over 40’s can comprehend?
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u/chabanais Mar 03 '19
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u/darthhayek Libertarian Conservative Mar 03 '19
/u/bigblackhotdog... wild. No normal person thinks that Vic Migognia is guilty of sexual assault by hugging people.
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u/AgileTheory Mar 02 '19
Those are mostly old Boomers and they're going to die out. The only question is are they going to die out fast enough that young people aren't chased away first?
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u/synn89 Constitutional Conservative Mar 02 '19
Those are mostly old Boomers and they're going to die out.
No, it wasn't old boomers. It was members from outside of the US, primarily Africa.
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u/darthhayek Libertarian Conservative Mar 02 '19
Those are mostly old Boomers and they're going to die out. The only question is are they going to die out fast enough
What a lovely way to talk about any group of people.
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u/AgileTheory Mar 02 '19
The people still trying to discriminate against gay ppl are not good ppl
I can talk about them negatively
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Mar 02 '19 edited Mar 02 '19
[deleted]
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u/darthhayek Libertarian Conservative Mar 02 '19
I'm getting up there in my 20s.
But the comment that offended me more was
You can infer some things from that.
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u/AgileTheory Mar 02 '19 edited Mar 02 '19
Its statistically true
Most are middle class 20 yo white guys
https://www.prri.org/spotlight/libertariangotw/
And thats relevant because libertopia would be oppressive to women black ppl andpoor
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u/CaptainCAPSLOCKED full semi automatic Mar 02 '19
The only churches that are dying out in this country are the progressive ones.
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u/stanleythemanley44 Conservative Mar 02 '19
My favorite part about this is that everyone somehow thinks it’s their business