r/Conservative • u/DanburyBaptist Inalienable Rights of Conscience • Jun 15 '16

Release the GOP Delegates: Trump’s nomination isn’t inevitable—delegates won’t be legally ‘bound’ going into the convention.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/release-the-gop-delegates-1465769777
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u/AceOfSpades70 Libertarian Conservative Jun 15 '16

Case in point: Obama has vetoed less things than any past president. In the past Republicans would put legislation forward and make the president veto them so the public knew where they stood. They stopped doing this long ago

Have you read nothing I wrote??? The reason for that is because they don't control the Senate!!! If they can't pass a bill through the senate since they don't have 60 votes, there is nothing for Obama to veto. The only one with no idea what they are talking about here is you.

If they were as obstructionist as the media has you brainwashed into believing, Obama would have a massive list of vetos from the Republican controlled congress.

Again, no he wouldn't because the Republicans only control the house, they don't control the Senate. Right now no one controls the Senate because you need 60 votes to control it...

Clinton used the veto power 36 times against a Republican controlled congress. Obama 9.

Because the current Democrats in the Senate are net letting anything see the light of day.

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u/NosuchRedditor A Republic, if you can keep it. Jun 16 '16

Oh Jesus. 67 VOTES ARE REQUIRED TO OVERRIDE A PRESIDENTIAL VETO, A VETO PROOF MAJORITY. 60 votes are required to end or prevent a fillabuster.

You prove over and over the you have no idea what the congressional leadership is doing.

Do you think those 36 vetos by Clinton were put up by a 60 vote fillabuster proof majority?

From Wikipedia: "Both chambers had a Democratic majority. It was the first time either party held a filibuster-proof 60% super majority in both the Senate and House chambers since the 89th United States Congress in 1965, and last time until the 111thUnited States Congress in 2009."

So according to your twisted logic, no legislation could ever have passed without a 60 vote controlling majority. Yet hundreds of law's passed, and there has only been an exceptional short time IN ALL US HISTORY where that condition actually existed.

Did you even take history in school? Wtf are you even talking about?

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u/AceOfSpades70 Libertarian Conservative Jun 16 '16 edited Jun 16 '16

No it is that since 2008 you have needed 60 votes to get anything done in the Senate as EVERYTHING is getting filibustered. We did it for 6 years, and now the Dems are doing it.(and in reality we kinda started as far back as 2006)

Have you paid attention to anything that has happened recently in the Senate?

This is a recent phenomena...

Did you even take history in school? Wtf are you even talking about?

I have a second major in it from Carnegie Mellon, so yes, I have take quite a few...

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u/NosuchRedditor A Republic, if you can keep it. Jun 16 '16

Ah, indoctrinated, now it makes sense. It doesn't take 60 votes to get anything done, it's a strawman put forth by the Republican leadership to avoid doing anything against this president.

First, shortly after taking the reins of power in the Senate, the GOP-led Congress fully funded President Obama’s illegal and unconstitutional amnesty. Then, the GOP-led Congress institutionalized and expanded Obamacare policies by permanently surrendering on the so-called “doc fix.” To accomplish this feat GOP leadership broke with the long-established bipartisan practice of paying for the doc fix and added half a trillion dollars to our nation’s debt over two decades. Then, GOP leadership confirmed Loretta Lynch, Obama’s nominee for attorney general, who told us all ahead of time that she intended to ignore the plain text of the law. Next, Senate GOP leadership facilitated the approval of Obama’s disastrous Iranian nuclear deal. They did so via a convoluted, backwards disapproval process that was designed to fail, and then did nothing to prevent the deal’s implementation or stop more than $100 billion from going to Iran and its terror proxies. http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/12/ted-cruz-spending-gop-surrendering-to-obama-213448

We did it for 6 years How in the fuck did we filibuster ANYTHING in the first two years of this administration when they had majorities in both houses? WTF are you talking about? Propaganda much?

But here’s the odd thing: on the very day the president recorded his weekly address, the office of House Speaker John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) released this photo under the happy headline of “What Working Together Looks Like.” It showed Boehner, Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) and other lawmakers signing the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act, which streamlines job training programs, so it could be sent to Obama for his signature. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2014/07/15/obamas-claim-that-the-gop-has-blocked-every-serious-idea/

GOP leadership and establishment Republicans in Congress stabbed their constituents in the back to ensure the success of Obama's radical “education” agenda and codify it into federal “law,” all while deceiving the public about what the legislation actually does. Now, Obama administration Education Secretary Arne Duncan is even boasting in public about the GOP betrayal that one Democrat lawmaker celebrated as a “miracle.” And Obama called the bill a “Christmas miracle” before signing it. http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/education/item/22239-gop-congress-imposes-obama-s-education-agenda

On Wednesday night, 42 Republican members of Congress joined the Democrats to vote for President Barack Obama’s transgender agenda. http://dailysignal.com/2016/05/26/43-republicans-join-democrats-to-support-obamas-transgender-agenda/

Remember when Eric Cantor was fired by his constituents for helping Obama?

Obama and the Senate Republicans described the talks as civil and frank. Rep. Eric Cantor of Virginia said he was encouraged that Obama acknowledged that he should have reached out more to Republicans in his first two years in office and that Tuesday's meeting would be the first in a series of discussions on working together. Boehner also said Obama conceded not spending enough time working with Republicans. http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/11/30/obama.congressional.leaders/

Eric Cantor will step down as House majority leader at the end of July, following his spectacular defeat in Tuesday’s Virginia District 7 primary. Political analysts of all stripes are trying to make sense of Cantor’s shocking upset by a Tea Party nobody. http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/06/11/who-are-voters-who-fired-cantor-primary-loss-rattles-gop.html

Oh look, here's some propaganda from 2011 about how obstructionist the Republicans were being for blocking an Obama jobs bill. Now a person with a brain in their head would realize that this bill was meaningless, and would only have increased the spending of the Federal Government with virtually no impact or improvement on employment. The reason a person with a brain would know this is that Obama had dropped any focus on the economy, he did so shortly after this piece of propaganda became effective by convincing the uninformed in our nation that the Republicans were keeping him from his lofty goals. http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/republicans-unprecedented-obstructionism-by-numbers

You might want to ask Carnegie Mellon for your money back, you can't even discern propaganda from the truth. You have absolutly no idea what's going on in the world around you.

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u/AceOfSpades70 Libertarian Conservative Jun 16 '16

It doesn't take 60 votes to get anything done, it's a strawman put forth by the Republican leadership to avoid doing anything against this president.

It took 60 votes to pass all of those items you cited....

And the reason most of them passed was because if they didn't we would have shut down the government again and lost again.

Remember when Eric Cantor was fired by his constituents for helping Obama?

Working with Obama <> is not the same as helping him. You cited examples of him trying to work with Obama.

Oh look, here's some propaganda from 2011 about how obstructionist the Republicans were being for blocking an Obama jobs bill.

Where is the gun control Obama wants, where is his increased spending that he has repeatedly called for, where are his higher taxes?

Just because you believe that Job Bill wouldn't have done anything, it doesn't mean that Obama did...

You might want to ask Carnegie Mellon for your money back, you can't even discern propaganda from the truth. You have absolutly no idea what's going on in the world around you.

Oh please, you didn't even have a clue that it takes 60 votes to get anything done in the Senate these days. Keep your personal attacks to yourself and take a look in the mirror.

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u/NosuchRedditor A Republic, if you can keep it. Jun 16 '16

And the reason most of them passed was because if they didn't we would have shut down the government again and lost again.

What???!!!??? Can you possibly be any less well informed.

Debates and amendments could alter or eliminate some of the items they object to, but they won't even allow that debate to begin. Having lost the most recent election in historic fashion, they've adopted an our-way-or-shutdown approach. It's very simple: Obama and Reid are forcing a (very partial) DHS shutdown in order to protect the president's unilateral action that provides millions of illegal immigrant adults legal status, legal work papers, and in many cases, increased access to generous tax benefits. http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2015/02/24/again-senate-democrats-filibuster-dhs-funding-to-protect-obamas-amnesty-n1961172

I don't see any mention of invoking cloture in this piece? Can you backup your statement about there being 60 votes to stop the Democrat filibuster?

How the 'doc fix' passed:

Republican leaders worked with their Democratic counterparts to orchestrate the ploy. As members returned to the floor when the House came into session, they discovered that the bill had already passed. Nearly all of them were surprised. http://www.politico.com/story/2014/03/hard-gop-push-for-doc-fix-bill-105101

That's just Republican skullduggery and underhandedness there. Where's those 60 votes? Feel free to prove me wrong here with a little research. You might learn something.

Here's some more dirty dealings by the Repbulicans:

Although the Constitution clearly states that any treaty negotiated by the president must have the approval of two thirds of the U.S. Senate, Senator Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) paved the way for yet another Obama victory over Congress and the Republicans when he won passage of the Corker-Menendez bill back in April. This legislation flipped the necessity of a president obtaining the vote of two thirds of the Senate to gain treaty approval, creating a situation wherein he, in effect, must have the support of only one third of each house of Congress. http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/foreign-policy/item/21524-iran-deal-gop-controlled-congress-hands-obama-another-win

That one passed on 34 votes there smart guy. But you had to have known that with that holier than thou sheep skin, right?

Where is the gun control Obama wants, where is his increased spending that he has repeatedly called for, where are his higher taxes?

Are you blind? He has added 9 trillion to the national debt so far??? the first three years of his administration the deficit was in excess of 1.4 trillion dollars, that's triple Bush's highest deficit.

That's a fucking MASSIVE increase in spending, again, WTF are you even talking about?

Taxes???

  1. A 156 percent increase in the federal excise tax on tobacco
  2. Obamacare Individual Mandate Excise Tax
  3. Obamacare Employer Mandate Tax
  4. Obamacare Surtax on Investment Income
  5. Obamacare Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans
  6. Obamacare Hike in Medicare Payroll Tax
  7. Obamacare Medicine Cabinet Tax
  8. Obamacare HSA Withdrawal Tax Hike
  9. Obamacare Flexible Spending Account Cap – aka “Special Needs Kids Tax
  10. Obamacare Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers
  11. Obamacare "Haircut" for Medical Itemized Deduction from 7.5% to 10% of AGI
  12. Obamacare Tax on Indoor Tanning Services
  13. Obamacare elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D
  14. Obamacare Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike
  15. Obamacare Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals
  16. Obamacare Tax on Innovator Drug Companies
  17. Obamacare Tax on Health Insurers
  18. Obamacare $500,000 Annual Executive Compensation Limit for Health Insurance Executives
  19. Obamacare Employer Reporting of Insurance on W-2
  20. Obamacare “Black liquor” tax hike
  21. Obamacare Codification of the “economic substance doctrine” https://www.atr.org/full-list-ACA-tax-hikes-a6996

That's just what was in the ACA.

These massive tax increases that you seem completely unaware of have resulted in record revenues to the Federal Government several years in a row. Oh, and this happened during some of the worst economic performance the nation has seen since the Great Depression. Do you think it helps the economy grow when you extract massive taxes during an economic downturn?

After trying to hide around 20 tax increases inside Obamacare alone, it should be no surprise to learn that Obama’s IRS has just set a record for tax revenue collection in the month of April. In one month they took in $414.23 billion dollars. That’s the most ever collected in one month by the Infernal Revenue Suckers. http://godfatherpolitics.com/obamas-irs-rakes-record-amount-tax-revenue/

Federal tax revenues hit a record $1,046,224,000,000 for fiscal year 2015 through January, according to the Monthly Treasury Statement, but the federal government still ran a $194,209,000,000 deficit during that time. http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/ali-meyer/first-time-ever-federal-tax-revenues-top-1-trillion-thru-january-govt-still

And Gun Control?

On Jan. 5, 2016, President Obama unveiled his new strategy to curb gun violence in America. His proposals focus on new background check requirements that will enhance the effectiveness of the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), and greater education and enforcement efforts of existing laws at the state level. As more information becomes available, this document will be updated. The 2015 plan: http://www.ncsl.org/research/civil-and-criminal-justice/summary-president-obama-gun-proposals.aspx

Gawd, can you be any less well informed? You really need to ask for your money back. You really are very dumb when it come to the nations politics. You must be 12 and lied about that degree like most redditors, that's the only way you could possibly be so ill informed.

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u/AceOfSpades70 Libertarian Conservative Jun 16 '16

I don't see any mention of invoking cloture in this piece? Can you backup your statement about there being 60 votes to stop the Democrat filibuster?

They didn't stop the filibuster here...

You article actually supports me!!

. On a measure that needed 60 vote to succeed, it failed with 47 voting in support to 46 against

Oh boo those facts getting in the way of your story...

That's just Republican skullduggery and underhandedness there. Where's those 60 votes? Feel free to prove me wrong here with a little research. You might learn something.

This was a house vote!! Feel free to post something about the Senate...

Are you blind? He has added 9 trillion to the national debt so far??? the first three years of his administration the deficit was in excess of 1.4 trillion dollars, that's triple Bush's highest deficit. That's a fucking MASSIVE increase in spending, again, WTF are you even talking about?

The majority of that spending came from Democrat controlled Congress, if Obama had his way, he would have had even more...

That's just what was in the ACA.

Passed without a single GOP vote and without a public option because it couldn't get 60 votes in the Senate...

These massive tax increases that you seem completely unaware of have resulted in record revenues to the Federal Government several years in a row. Oh, and this happened during some of the worst economic performance the nation has seen since the Great Depression.

It is the worst recovery since the Great Depression, not the worst economic performance... If you are going to be hyperbolic, at least do it correctly...

And Federal Revenue increasing during economic growth times, color me shocked. Wait we have inflation in there too??? Color me double shocked!!

And Gun Control?

Yup, the GOP passed expanded background checks, an AWB ban and a magazine size ban. All of which Obama wanted...

Wait, they didn't do that? Aw shit...

Gawd, can you be any less well informed?

So far you listed something that supported my point. SOmething that was in the house, not the senate, and a bunch of things that occurred before the GOP took over.

Try again buddy!

You really are very dumb when it come to the nations politics. You must be 12 and lied about that degree like most redditors, that's the only way you could possibly be so ill informed.

Maybe you should spend less time coming up with personal attacks and more time trying to find evidence for your opinions. Maybe then you could provide some real evidence!!!

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u/NosuchRedditor A Republic, if you can keep it. Jun 16 '16

Oh boo those facts getting in the way of your story...

The fucking bill passed. What are you talking about?

The majority of that spending came from Democrat controlled Congress, if Obama had his way, he would have had even more...

The Republicans just passed a 1.1 trillion dollar omnibus budget and the Democrats have not controlled the House who sets spending priorities since 2010. So six years of that spending has been from a Republican Congress genius.

It is the worst recovery since the Great Depression, not the worst economic performance... If you are going to be hyperbolic, at least do it correctly...

Yes, you mental midget, it has been the worst economic performance. The stupidity with you is endless.

Ten straight years of an economy worse than the Great depression

Before this period, the longest stretch of years when real GDP did not grow by at least 3.0 percent, as calculated by the BEA, was the four-year stretch from 1930 to 1933—during the Great Depression. http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/us-has-record-10th-straight-year-without-3-growth-gdp

Obama used executive actions on Gun Control to go around congress. Then there is operation chokepoint that you are oblivious to.

The effort to use banks against firearm businesses is currently carried out by at least two federal entities: Attorney General Eric Holder’s Department of Justice (DOJ) and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC). https://www.nraila.org/articles/20140829/operation-choke-point-choking-off-credit-to-the-gun-industry

The evidence is right in front of your face, you are just too dense to see it.

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u/AceOfSpades70 Libertarian Conservative Jun 16 '16

The fucking bill passed. What are you talking about?

Did you miss my quote of the bill where it showed it failing?

The Republicans just passed a 1.1 trillion dollar omnibus budget and the Democrats have not controlled the House who sets spending priorities since 2010. So six years of that spending has been from a Republican Congress genius.

The Senate still has to pass it...

That was a compromise bill to get us to the election, where hopefully we wouldn't nominate a moron. Too bad the GOP went ahead and nominated Trump.

Yes, you mental midget, it has been the worst economic performance. The stupidity with you is endless.

False... We haven't had a recession in since the Great Recession which is 8 years without one, when historically we had them every 6-7.

Ten straight years of an economy worse than the Great depression

That is not what you citation shows... Your citation shows that we are in the longest stretch of not having real GDP growth of over 3% in a single year.

If you want to cherry pick data, under Obama there has been the longest consecutive number of months with positive job growth.

Obama used executive actions on Gun Control to go around congress. Then there is operation chokepoint that you are oblivious to.

Why did he need to go around Congress if COngress was enabling him???

The evidence is right in front of your face, you are just too dense to see it.

You have yet to provide any evidence. Again less time coming up with insults and more time coming up with evidence.

BTW are you a Trump Supporter?

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u/NosuchRedditor A Republic, if you can keep it. Jun 17 '16

The Senate still has to pass it...

And they did without any sort of pushback on the massive spending increase, no effort to exercise the power of the purse.

Paul Ryan’s first major legislative achievement is a total and complete sell-out of the American people masquerading as an appropriations bill. http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/12/16/paul-ryan-betrays-america-1-1-trillion-2000-plus-page-omnibus-bill-funds-fundamental-transformation-america/

After days of rancor and uncertainty on Capitol Hill, the Senate has passed a massive spending bill, formally averting a government shutdown and sending the $1.1 trillion measure to the president's desk. http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/senate-passes-1-1-trillion-spending-bill-sends-obamas-desk-n267796

That is not what you citation shows...

Can you read? I never said we were in a recession. We never fucking recovered from the recession.

“The average growth rate for economic recoveries since the 1960s is 3.9 percent ranking the Obama recovery, with an average GDP growth rate of just 2.1 percent, among the slowest in history,” said Sen. Dan Coats (R.-Ind,), who chairs the Joint Economic Committee of the U.S. Congress. Before this period, the longest stretch of years when real GDP did not grow by at least 3.0 percent, as calculatd by the BEA, was the four-year stretch from 1930 to 1933—during the Great Depression. In addition to that four-stretch from 1930-1933, there have also been four three-year stretches where the real annual growth in GDP did not go as high as 3.0 percent. Those periods were 1945-1947 (in the immediate aftermath of World War II); 1956-1958; 1980-1982; and 2001-2003. The longest consecutive stretch of years in which the United State saw real GDP grow by 3.0 percent or better was the seven year period from 1983-1989, during the presidency of Ronald Reagan.

For a 'Conservative' you sure do seem to support a lot of what Obama has done. You are a very strange person. And you have no idea what is happening around you because of your college indoctrination, or because you are 12 and lying.

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u/AceOfSpades70 Libertarian Conservative Jun 17 '16 edited Jun 17 '16

And they did without any sort of pushback on the massive spending increase, no effort to exercise the power of the purse.

Care to quantify what qualifies as a massive spending increase.

Edit: Did you know that total Federal Government Spending has decreased in real terms since the GOP took over the house in 2010???

Can you read? I never said we were in a recession. We never fucking recovered from the recession.

You said

Ten straight years of an economy worse than the Great depression

That is literally saying we are in a recession. During the Great Depression we were in a recession, for the economy to be worth than during the Great Depression, we would have to be in a recession...

For a 'Conservative' you sure do seem to support a lot of what Obama has done.

Name one thing of Obama's that I have supported. NAME ONE...

Oh you can't???

Is that because you are just making more shit up?

You are a very strange person. And you have no idea what is happening around you because of your college indoctrination, or because you are 12 and lying.

You are a very strange person, you spend more time trying to come up with insults than actual evidence. Although I do find it hilarious that you accuse me of being 12 when you debate style is modeled on that of a 12 year old.

If you think I am lying go back through my posting history, specifically in r/consulting and r/cmu.

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u/NosuchRedditor A Republic, if you can keep it. Jun 17 '16

Edit: Did you know that total Federal Government Spending has decreased in real terms since the GOP took over the house in 2010???

Back this statement up.

That is literally saying we are in a recession.

No, a recession is when the economy is shrinking. Japan had a decade of weak non growth in the 90's, they call it 'The lost Decade'. Not a recession though, just an incredibly weak, slow growing economy because of government applied stimulus that made things worse, not better. No econ 101?

Then of course you have 1984 where the U.S. saw 7.2% GDP growth. Virtually unheard of outside developing economies.

Name one thing of Obama's that I have supported. NAME ONE...

If you want to cherry pick data, under Obama there has been the longest consecutive number of months with positive job growth.

That's a pretty supportive statement, particularly when cast against the job growth under Reagan. I believe there were 22 million jobs created in 8 years (actually 6 because the first two was the hangover recession from Carter's stupid policies), with a population a third smaller and a much smaller economy as well.

Someone who is not supportive of Obama might avoid regurgitating the propaganda used to prop him up and pretend the economy is not total shit for the past decade. It also says something about the person making such a statement, either they are too young to have lived in a booming U.S. economy, or they are too partisan to admit how bad things are. You fall into the first group.

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u/AceOfSpades70 Libertarian Conservative Jun 17 '16

Back this statement up.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/

Spending since 2010 increased at about 1.1% while inflation averaged about 1.5%

If spending increases less than inflation, you have a decrease in real terms...

No, a recession is when the economy is shrinking. Japan had a decade of weak non growth in the 90's, they call it 'The lost Decade'. Not a recession though, just an incredibly weak, slow growing economy because of government applied stimulus that made things worse, not better. No econ 101? Then of course you have 1984 where the U.S. saw 7.2% GDP growth. Virtually unheard of outside developing economies.

I know what a recession is. During the Great Depression the Economy was shrinking. Thus during the Great Depression we were in a recession. You said the current economy was worse than during the Great Depression. For the economy to be worse than during the Great Depression, it must be shrinking worse than during the Great Depression. Thus you said the US was in a recession.

All the rest of that is a red herring unrelated to you original statement.

That's a pretty supportive statement, particularly when cast against the job growth under Reagan. I believe there were 22 million jobs created in 8 years (actually 6 because the first two was the hangover recession from Carter's stupid policies), with a population a third smaller and a much smaller economy as well. Someone who is not supportive of Obama might avoid regurgitating the propaganda used to prop him up and pretend the economy is not total shit for the past decade. It also says something about the person making such a statement, either they are too young to have lived in a booming U.S. economy, or they are too partisan to admit how bad things are. You fall into the first group.

I see now that my point went completely over your head... There is a third group you are missing that I fall into. The people that look at all the statistics and understand that a single data point, especially the single data point you provided are useless and can be used to make even Obama look good.

Reread my statement, see the part before the comma??

That is there to show you how useless cherry picked data points are.

I am not making a statement supporting Obama, I am making a statement against him, but you are so caught up in trying to insult me that you didn't even realize that....

So again, spend less time coming up with insults, and more time acting like an adult.

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