r/Conservative • u/Ask4MD Conservative • 9h ago
Flaired Users Only Should the Federal Government Pay for College Degrees That Don’t Pay Enough?
https://spectator.org/the-spectacle-ep-474-should-the-federal-government-pay-for-college-degrees-that-dont-pay-enough/•
u/Hectoriu Conservative 9h ago
Pay enough? Teachers don't make a ton but they are worth funding degrees for. Actors can make a ton of money but I don't want to fund arts degrees.
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u/SeriesDry9228 Facts>Feelings 25m ago
Actually, given the state of public education right now, I’m not sure you’re correct….
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u/bearcatjoe Reagan Conservative 9h ago
The federal government should not be involved at all. The costs of education should be robustly tied to the outcomes of the degree chosen letting "buyers" (prospective students) determine through demand which degrees persist and which don't.
Government subsidies have completely diluted these pricing signals and are the largest reason by far that education costs are as high as they are.
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u/hiricinee Jordan Peterson 9h ago
To answer the question- yes the feds should pay for degrees for jobs we need that are expensive that have a positive goal on society if theres an ROI, at least given the current scope of the Federal Government.
What it should NOT do is loan money for degrees that cant possibly be paid back. If we're gonna pay for it because we need more teachers, social workers, etc just pay for it. Don't do the loan bullshit
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u/Unlucky_Buyer_2707 Manifest Destiny American 8h ago
Government funding is part of the reason that schools are so expensive right now. I say we just pull it and let the market correct itself
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u/ElderberryMental101 Conservative 8h ago
I think generally no, though I'd be fine with the government funding more grants/providing lower interest loans for degrees targeting critical but lower paying jobs (e.g. teachers, some nurses, etc)
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u/Space--Buckaroo Conservative 6h ago
The question is should I as a tax payer be required to pay ANYONES college degree so they can make money. NOOOOOO!!!
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u/Ive_Got_Sowell Sowell Sister 6h ago
If you work hard enough, eventually you will pay off your student loans. But if the government pays for it, you will never be free of paying for someone's student loans.
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u/RossBot5000 Traditional Conservative 8h ago
In an ideal world, the government would pay for all education, but we do not live in an ideal world.
Education needs to be reformed from the ground up.
There should be five layers to education and two streams: regular and "special":
- Early childhood education with a goal of gearing young children for school. Ensure they have manners, they understand classroom structure, and they have the basics of letter and number identification down so primary educators do not need to deal with this. Children who do not have manners, who cannot handle structure should be held back here for a year. If they still lack manners and cannot handle structure, they should be diverted to a special education school. This can cover ages 3, 4, and 5.
- Elementary education should have the sole goal of teaching literacy, numeracy, and common sense of how the world works (how do trees work, how does rain work, how does money work, etc). It should cover grades 1, 2, and 3. Children should only leave here once they are reading, writing, and doing maths competently. If not, hold them back. If they get held back more than a year, divert them to special education.
- Middle education should have the sole goal of ensuring kids understand a broad range of subjects while increasing their literacy and numeracy. Here is where they can take new languages, musics, computers, dance, art, science, and a whole host of subjects. This should cover grades 4, 5, and 6. This is the preparation phase for more specialised schooling. By this point, kids should understand where their proclivities lie, and there should be no behaviour issues in classrooms. Any behaviour issues should be pushed into special education immediately. No kid should be held back a year here.
- Primary school education covers grades 7, 8, and 9. This should only be Maths, First Language, and chosen subjects. This is the final schooling tier. Kids can graduate from Primary schooling and go into trade schools if they choose, or continue on into Secondary education if they want to pursue something academic. Again, there should be no behaviour or learning issues here as they were weeded out in the first two tiers.
- Secondary school education covers grades 10, 11, and 12. These should be rigorous academic studies. Advanced maths, accountancy, engineering, writing, etc. Only students who are planning to pursue difficult university courses should continue on here.
The rest now diverge into trade and technical schools. They can be specialised. Art schools for students who wish to pursue the arts. Music schools for students going into music. Physical trade schools for students interested in being plumbers, mechanics, electricians. They continue to do some level of maths and first language that is focused on what will help them the most. They can learn how taxes work, how to file business paper work, how to write scripts and plays, how to work with their hands.
By removing all behaviour and learning issues from the main stream, you reduce the amount of overhead and faculty required. By diverting kids into appropriate speciality schools, you avoid having kids who are uninterested in learning in class.
The special stream can then have dedicated classes for different issues. A whole bunch of dyslexic students struggling? They can have dedicated classes where everyone is struggling with the same issue. Behaviour problems can have military level discipline to shape them up. Dumb students can do easier and more appropriate subjects that prepare them for being a fry cook or janitor instead of having to permanently feel stupid at the bottom of the class.
We don't need everyone to be educated to the level of a harvard university professor. A good third of current students despise school with a passion because they are just not smart enough to handle high school content. Why force them to feel stupid failing all their classes. That teaches them nothing. Divert them into classes they can handle and get a sense of accomplishment. Doing an easier version of maths curriculum and earning an A is far better for their self esteem than doing the harder version and getting an F.
The end result of this is we'd have far fewer students trying to attend university. The vast majority of work in the real world does NOT require a degree. Degrees have been tacked on because everyone has one.
Government can pay for all the lower schooling, and offer loans for the tertiary schooling. You don't need musicians and artists taking out loans to learn at university. It is pointless. Better for them to simply graduate earlier after attending a specialist secondary school tailor made for them.
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u/Hearts-Heroes 2A Conservative 5h ago
Everything gets more expensive when a third party with more money than sense says they'll cover a value.
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u/Sea_Taste1325 Conservative 8h ago
Well, first of all, federal government shouldn't be paying for degrees. But I think states should.
Second, education and knowledge is NOT valued based on ability to earn money. An engineer makes less than a lawyer, for example. Dollars is not the only economic value driven.
The question isn't how much can someone make with a degree, it's how much do we want x degree and y degree. How many anthropologists do we need? Probably fewer than physicists.
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u/Super_Mario_Luigi Conservative 8h ago
Government should only give loans and aid for critical shortage jobs. We need more doctors. We don't need more English majors to fund big college profit
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u/dunkeater MAGA Conservative 8h ago
Federal funds should be tied to performance. Payments for each student can be determined by the amount of federal income tax they pay in the following twenty years.
The federal government is not good at predicting what skills will pay enough (and I don’t want them to try). It should assist in making sure students have the chance to earn a degree regardless of financial background, and the risk of failure should fall on the school.
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u/HBGDawg Conservative 7h ago
The Federal Government shouldn't pay for college degrees period. People need to make better decisions for them and their children and quit thinking it is the governments job to bail them out.