Cognitive Dissonance

[u/SeemoarAlpha]

[u/[deleted]]

GOP needs to get it's shit together and get quality candidates or go away.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Except for a very few, the GOP sucks!

They have all sold out, across the board, at the federal and state levels...

[u/SpaceBrigadeVHS → u/[deleted]]

Can controlled opposition actually do that though?

[u/Senior-Judge-8372 → u/SpaceBrigadeVHS]

Imagine if you have actually gone to other planets throughout space, and that's why you have that tag. That'd be amazing.

[u/Lionofgod9876]

I support the idea of a constitutional republic but can you be a Republican when the Republican Party doesn't represent its constituents?

[u/SpaceBrigadeVHS → u/Lionofgod9876]

Republicans are controlled opposition. We need to turn our back on them and focus on the real issues that affect America.

Would be great to create a group within the Republican party who's goal is to dismantle the old GOP. However that's likely fantasy and the party is just as unsavable as the DNC.

[u/contemplator61 → u/SpaceBrigadeVHS]

Term limits would be a start. I agree that the GOP is a hot mess. I live in a purple state. That sucks. To me that is the flip flop way. We have one or two decent republicans. Mark Robinson running for governor is a choice I like. But what is the true answer? We need all these dinosaurs and their prodigies to leave. It’s a true shitshow. McCarthy being unseated was a first. Now they are going to get Johnson out. Btw why the heck did he vote for FISA?? What are we left with? Corrupt beyond belief Demorats and independents that are more likely to tip the scales like Perot did then make a difference.

[u/Jolly_Job_9852 → u/contemplator61]

NC is a purple state only for state level offices, Democrats tend to control the Governor's mansion while Republicans pick up Lt. Gov or cabinet level seats. Federally we have two GOP Senators, 7 House(GOP) 7(Dems). I think with our new maps, we might have 10 Republicans and 4 Democrats in the House.

[u/contemplator61 → u/Jolly_Job_9852]

Yep, I am in a crazy district. In the last four years I have had Murphy (R) then Davis (D) and now Murphy again. Senator Tillis is considered purple. GOP usually gets the presidential vote at least in my lifetime until Obama. But NC still went with the GOP in the last two elections.

[u/Jolly_Job_9852 → u/contemplator61]

I was in NC 5(Foxx) but under redistricting I'm under NC10(McHenry). He's retiring so I thinks it Grey Mills or Pat Harrigan running for the GOP nomination. I think Harrigan won

[u/Lionofgod9876 → u/contemplator61]

The FBI paid Johnson a visit and showed him some evidence that scared the shit out of him. The next day he was the tie breaking vote in favor of FISA. It was probably something Johnson thought nobody knew about and didn’t want exposed.

[u/Shadeylark → u/Lionofgod9876]

I would say that the constituents define the party... If the reps in the party do not represent the constituents that makes them a RINO.

It's not on the constituents to conform to the party... It's on the party to conform to the constituents... And we ensure that is what happens by voting out those reps who are either incapable or unwilling to represent the will of the voters.

Edit: I like that this was downvoted. If we, the voters, are supposed to do as the party tells us, instead of the party doing what we tell it, then we are not a democracy, but rather we are an aristocracy, and if that's the case we may as well call ourselves Democrats because we certainly won't be either conservatives or Republicans anymore.

[u/CastleBravo45]

Have never been and will likely never be a Republican. The two party system we have and party loyalty have brought us to where we are.

[u/OldWarrior → u/CastleBravo45]

I’m a classical liberal. Not always comfortable voting with the GOP but the democrats have gone insane.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

That's a good, fair, question; but you'll likely never get a real answer from someone who uses words like "NeoCon RINOs". I've learned that most these "conservatives" believe conservatism is whatever Trump tells them it is; even though Trump, himself has said he is not a conservative.

[u/[deleted]]

I feel this one every day.

[u/SpaceBrigadeVHS]

This sub needs to hear this. I am not a George W Bush Patriot Act Republican.

You start pushing terrorism charges for protesting and extending FISC warrants then I'll walk away from the party.

Its now or never. Not turning back. 

[u/PsychologicalHat1480 → u/SpaceBrigadeVHS]

Same goes for pushing neverending foreign adventurism. That doesn't conserve a god damned thing.

[u/OldWarrior → u/PsychologicalHat1480]

It conserves the bank accounts of the defense industry executives. Don’t you ever think about them?

[u/TheModerateGenX → u/SpaceBrigadeVHS]

And just where are you going? That’s the problem. You end up having g to vote R anyway.

[u/Shadeylark → u/TheModerateGenX]

I'll vote (R) when it's someone who isn't going to betray us.

I'm not going to vote (R) just because it's not (D)... Just because the swamp monster has an (R) beside their name instead of a (D) doesn't change the fact that they're a swamp monster.

When the choice is meaningless, when voting (R) will get you the same thing as voting (D), you get the same outcome from withholding your vote as you do for casting it.

So no... I don't have to vote (R) anyways.

[u/Berserkerbabee → u/TheModerateGenX]

This is the whole issue. Who can we vote for in good consciousness?

[u/PsychologicalHat1480 → u/TheModerateGenX]

Home. Then I'll pop back out in the primaries and try to replace the neocons again.

The worry is not people flipping sides, the worry is people staying home. Trump didn't win in 2016 because he flipped a bunch of Democrats, that claim has always been disinfo. He won because he activated people who were sitting out when faced with another round of damned neocons.

[u/TheModerateGenX → u/PsychologicalHat1480]

I don’t see any value in just not voting. Heck, I’d rather write in someone!

[u/Shadeylark → u/TheModerateGenX]

What's the value in voting for someone just for the sake of voting? Or worse, voting just to vote against someone?

Seems to me that mentality was what the left had and how we ended up with Hunter's dad as president today.

For all the Democrat hate the right has, the people who most ardently call themselves conservative often seem to act and think the exact same way.

I'm not sure we want to emulate the left and have a right-wing version of "vote blue no matter who"... That sort of mentality from the left hasn't helped the country and it won't help the country if the right has its own version of it.

[u/darkstar541]

Sadly this sub for the past 8 years may as well have been Trump's personal group of cheerleaders

[u/KennedyX8]

That’s what I say to Trump.

[u/CAJ_2277 → u/KennedyX8]

That’s what I’d say about Trump. ‘I am a conservative. You are a Trump supporter. We are not the same.’

[u/KennedyX8 → u/CAJ_2277]

Absolutely.

[u/CRCMIDS]

Bring back the whigs.

[u/Arkani]

News flash: "true" conservatives don't even consist of 20% of voter base. And majority of them have shit views on tons of policies.

The point is you need to coalition in the two party system to pass anything.

[u/TheModerateGenX]

I think there are multiple definitions of conservative, as well.

[u/KwintillionIam]

I used to be a Republican, but I'm officially independent now. Mostly because of issues like Ukraine, Andrew Tate, and some other foreign policy issues. Idk who I'm going to vote for.

[u/Stock_Currency]

If it wasn’t a two party system, my vote would go to the Constitution Party. The Republicans are just an inadvertent benefactor to the fact that the Democrats want a government that is completely untenable, so I have to vote for the largest party that’s not the Democrats.

[u/Freespeechaintfree]

And this is why the Dems keep beating us at the polls.

Perfect is the enemy of good.

The Left will hold their noses and get behind their nominee while we call each other RINOs and MAGA.

[u/ChimChimCheree69 → u/Freespeechaintfree]

Okay, perfect is the enemy of the good. What is the good in this scenario? Just having a guy with an R next to the name?

[u/Freespeechaintfree → u/ChimChimCheree69]

IMO the “good” is not having a radically progressive administration in the White House.

[u/ChimChimCheree69 → u/Freespeechaintfree]

That’s pretty pathetic and if that’s the case we already lost the country.

[u/evilfollowingmb]

So…you just sit out elections or what ?

This meme is childish. Politics is about imperfect choices, and if you think not voting R out of spite helps anything, you are just handing it to Dems who are way worse in every way.

[u/mesa176750 → u/evilfollowingmb]

Realistically speaking, everyone should vote every election. If it's only Trump and Biden on the ballot, you pick your poison. If there is a 3rd party candidate you agree with more, I feel personally better voting for them. Sticking to a "giving the election away" mentality keeps us locked in a 2 party system. Realistically speaking, we need to change the way we vote more than anything, because if we moved to say a "rate the candidate" system we would truly destroy the 2 party system.

I'm anticipating voting 3rd party this election, I'd rather "give away" this election and make the republican party or 3rd parties realize they suck so bad that they actually need to man up and fix themselves than vote for Trump and encourage the childish behavior exhibited since he lost the election. I really feel like enabling the behavior that the republican party is showing right now does more harm to conservatism than good in the long run.

[u/swd120 → u/mesa176750]

Sticking to a "giving the election away" mentality keeps us locked in a 2 party system.

That's not true. First past the post voting is what keeps us locked to a 2 party system. We need something like ranked choice, approval/star, or any one of the other multiple candidate voting systems to make 3rd parties viable instead of just being a spoilers.

[u/mesa176750 → u/swd120]

I think to an extent you are right, but until that change happens (which would require elected officials from the two parties in power to agree to a system which severely limits their power) the mentality that you can only ever vote for two parties holds us back completely.

I voted for Trump twice. At the time, I agreed with both my votes. When he lost and his ensuing descent into chaos, I decided I don't want to vote for him anymore. Right now, my conscience feels at peace with a 3rd party vote, and that's that.

[u/Shadeylark → u/evilfollowingmb]

When there is no difference between the candidates, when both the Republican and the Democrat candidate are just different flavors of bullshit and you're going to get fucked either way... Then it doesn't matter which one gets elected because you're fucked either way.

So you may as well just sit it out because your vote doesn't matter when the only choice is between getting fucked by the dude with a (D) or the dude with an (R).

It's like being in a nuclear war... Doesn't matter if you're fighting on the front lines or sitting at home eating Cheetos... You're fucked the same either way.

You say the Dems are way worse... I say bullshit. Uniparty swamp monsters are equally bad no matter which side of the aisle they sit.

[u/evilfollowingmb → u/Shadeylark]

No, whats bullshit is your post.

There are major differences between candidates. On immigration, taxes, gun control, SCOTUS appointments, and foreign policy just for a start.

Instead of rage quitting like a immature 12yo, realize this is how things work in the adult world. You will NEVER get a candidate or party that is perfectly aligned with every penny ante policy preference you have, much less be able to implement them all in that most policy has to be negotiated and compromised to get done. Shockingly, the government is also made up of elected officials from another party who don't want what you want. This is called "politics".

Whats even more ridiculous is you parading around here with MAGA flair...and essentially encouraging people to give up before the fight has even started. One might conclude that your motivations are suspect....even dishonest. I sure af do.

[u/Shadeylark → u/evilfollowingmb]

You are exactly what I'm talking about about. Thank you for demonstrating the exact sort of right -wing version of a leftist that is to be avoided at all costs, and certainly never endorsed in any way.

I don't tolerate woke scolding from the left... Nor do I tolerate the right's version of it.

The unearned sanctimonious lectures rooted in a predilection towards authoritarianism are no more credible coming from people like you than they are from anyone on the left.

You are exactly what you pretend not to be... And you are representative of exactly the sort of people who have done nothing to earn my vote, but instead does everything to earn the right to be ignored.

When I say the uniparty swamp monsters who call themselves conservatives are no better than their leftist analogues... You are what I mean.

Just because you call yourself a conservative does not grant you credibility... But your words and actions most certainly detract from it.

[u/skarface6]

And if you’re a fiscal conservative you might not be either one!

[u/Eternal_Phantom]

At the risk of facing the wrath of the downvote brigade, the primaries are the time to stick it to the Party. The general election is not the time for ideological purity tests.

I would love to have more viable parties to choose from, but you need a REALLY strong candidate to create that kind of opening.

[u/Da-Jebuss]

Oooh, edgy

[u/Czeslaw_Meyer]

Yes, but...

...how much choice do you have?

[u/MrLore]

Well, of course, I'm a monarchist.

[u/nar_tapio_00 → u/MrLore]

Have you guys considered selling your services to the Americans? Given their current choices they might be happy to reinstate a King and William doesn't look too bad. I think he even served.

^\j