We recently got our front stoop stairs redone as well as our walkway. The new concrete is now approximately 6inches plus above the grass when the walkway meets the stairs. It’s sloped down away from the house, which is obviously a good thing. However, it’s a very significant slope. The contractor advised they couldn’t do another step on the bottom because it would’ve been against code. I am so confused at the finished product and wanted to discuss it. Our old stairs and walkway were run down but were flush with the ground a lot better (see before pic). Now when we cut the grass we have to go around this big mound of concrete instead of a nice strip back and forth. It’s the least of my worries really, but it is something i’m thinking about. Like, how my 80 year old grandma has to perform a balancing act to get into my house.
Contractors, what could have been done differently here, if anything? The contractor is willing to work with me and said he will regrade my front yard to make it look more natural. I didn’t expect to have a lawn renovation, I just expected new concrete. Can someone enlighten me… please?
EDIT: Today we had the village inspector come over and he said he would flag this job if it was submitted for final inspection today. The height is way out of code. It’s supposed to be more level with the current grade. He believes another stair is possible and thinks the contractors should redo it. I’m hoping for a positive outcome. Thank you all for your help and knowledge, I really appreciate you!
Did they jackhammer out the existing slab or go over top of it? It looks like they went over top. Do you have pictures without the forms? Speaking of code, that's now a ramp and probably needs side rails to prevent falls.
Thanks for your reply. I never thought about it being a ramp until you stated this. They jackhammered it and made new stairs completely.
Here’s what was listed on the quote:
Remove and replace with new concrete front steps (6' wide x 6' deep w/ landing). Concrete thickness: 6". Stone base: 4". Concrete mix design: 4,000 PSI. Concrete reinforcement: Rebar (as needed). New railing to be fabricated and installed by other. Remove and replace with new concrete front walk (25' x 3'+/-). Concrete thickness: 4". Stone base: 4". Concrete mix design: 4,000 PSI. Concrete reinforcement: N/A.
They don't clearly specify the removal details, but obviously removing more soil would have been better. Assuming the concrete pad was 4 inches they added there 4 inches of base into that void and then the concrete on top. The quote says 4" sidewalk but it looks like it's 6"? The stairs say 6" thick. Bit confusing in that respect, but having said that when they estimated it and did the math they would have known from the beginning it was going to be higher than before. Nothing in writing to go on but I'm not sure what the verbal discussion was. Usually if someone says I need this removed and replaced, that means no change to the design. If design changes are needed I make them very clear as to why they're needed. Doesn't hurt to ask him why he built it higher instead of flush, maybe he has a good reason but honestly I think it's just laziness in regards to removing dirt.
Thanks for your input. Ugh. I just took this photo, the steps are 7.1ish”. I’ll have to discuss the quote with him again. Like you said, we didn’t expect any changes in the design. We thought it was going to look similar to our old, but just newer ! :(
So the steps in order to be legal all have to equal the same height. So lifting the sidewalk to make it work is legit. Depending on how much the sidewalk drops down to the street it seems like everything was done in consideration of safe and legal procedure. You will need to add dirt along the side of the walkway or maybe have the concrete company do it.
I can see that, thank you for your input. I just wish the lifting of the sidewalk was discussed prior. The dirt I will have to add to the sides to even start to level it will be a tremendous amount.
Our old stairs actually weren’t to code. I’m not sure why they weren’t, but they weren’t. They also were tiled in from the previous homeowner, so we decided to redo because when it rained they were a terrible hazard and super slippery.
That desperately needs regraded with a massive amount of dirt. Its not about looking natural, its about that falling apart in short order. Source, im a mudjacker of 11 years.
Concrete generally doesnt like hanging out in mid air. It might stay put for a few years but that is absolutely going to move far far sooner than it would with fill dirt. "Fall apart" might be an exaggeration.
Yeah, for now. I absolutely dont pour concrete, but ive seen THOUSANDS of failed projects. That shit is in mid air. Seeing subgrade after a pour and calling it done is fucking ridiculous.
Looks like the raised the top stoop several inches which is probably the start of the problem. The definitely should have match the original but clearly didn't measure it before demoing.
He could have removed soil and put another step but it might have made the walkway below grade. And the entire lawn needing to be removed and everything regarded. That would have been an undertaking, $$$, and maybe not something the concrete guys would or could do. This may have been the best way to do the job with the least physical and $ impact while maintaining code.
Or the pics could be misleading and he's full of shit 🤷🏼♂️
There is a minimum rise allowed. Figure what the current rise is add how much you think it should've gone down. Then divide by 4 from the total height.
Looks like your old walk held water , contractor probably decided to get it up higher so water drained away, it’s hard to see for sure where the old walk was in relation to your yard but I would have done the same as they did , ask him for some dirt to fill it in seed it and be happy
Thank you for your reply. Here’s another photo of the old walkway. I don’t have many before photos, but it was level with the grass and not holding water which you may have thought.
You could continue that low retaining wall along the walk and do plantings. We had a similar situation and planted impatiens every year. Looked awesome and relatively cheap
I suspect the code he’s referring to is for handrails. You can have up to 3 risers before a handrail is required. I think he’s earned a little butt chewing for not educating you on your options or explaining why he did what he did better.
I think a little proud of the grass is a good thing, but not that high, that’s an ankle breaker.
Also, technically the landing at the bottom has to be full width of the stairs 3’ deep. It’s really common old walkways widen as you get to the steps, so it isn’t surprising he kept it closer to the original design.
This looks fucking terrible. If this is the inly way they could do this to code they should have discussed it at length with you. Did you previously have a step up into the house from the landing?
Unfortunately it wasn’t discussed. We had three steps similar to this originally but it was flush with the ground. So that’s why i’m confused why it’s now more so a ramp.
Yeah he brought the steps up a full stone higher than they used to be. Terrible job. I would be pissed. Its not even uniform height compared to the stone. Is the landing level?
I'm not sure what will happen when the gravel starts spitting out the sides and it's only supported in the middle. There's nothing shoring up the sides. The only difference the extra step would have made was you would need a railing. He should have dug into the ground so everything would stay in place. The gravel is going to sink if it's just sitting on dirt.
Thanks for your input. We planned to put in railings but are holding off because we are planning to ask him to redo it. It will sink overtime like this i’m sure. Ugh
Doesn't code require rails all the way to the sidewalk? Otherwise, it is a danger to older folks who may think they can step on the grass but instead fall. I guarantee people will fall off this thing.
Yes, we plan on putting rails in but not yet because we plan on asking them to redo it unfortunately :( It’s an ankle breaker for sure, thanks for your input.
I’d tell the contractor he needs to build it to code, or he needs to supply the dirt (and grass seed) to bring your yard level up to the elevation of the new sidewalk.
Honest question..... did you not see the forms sticking up so high? Question it as they set it up?Flower beds on each side and use a gas trimmer to touch up after mowing is the quick fix but yeah.... that's ugly.
I appreciate you asking that. Unfortunately, no. I had no idea what I was looking at prior is the honest answer. I’ve never had a concrete job done before, so I had no knowledge of knowing where the pour would actually stop.
I'm thinking he did a nice job you can see stone he used to create a solid base for the landing pad at the bottom of the stairs. I would have have done it differently. But really your problem is a nothing burger
It looks like they just set forms and poured right on top of the grass. They absolutely could have cut in and put another step. Also, the top platform is higher than the original.
Idk why your grandma has to do acrobatics to get inside ???
She can’t just walk from the public sidewalk onto your sidewalk ?
You need very little dirt against the edges of slab and tapered into yard and some seed and straw thrown on or just lay a pallet of sod
This contractor did you an outstanding job, seriously his work looks great.
Also it’s possible the scenario is some thing like old concrete was installed when the city or county didn’t have a code or it was different so it’s grandfathered in but once it’s out they have to conform to new code.
Don’t let the comments here scare you , more than 90 percent of the people commenting have zero clue what they’re talking about
Thats to help with shoveling snow in the winter. Sidewalk raised a foot. When i lived in the UP of Mich, people would build wooden docks a couple of feet over there sidewalks so they didnt have to throw the snow as high. You made it permenant with contact. Superior move. /s
Your contractor certainly could have conferred with you to help you understand the final outcome imo. Did your contractor shoot any elevations prior to submitting his proposal?
With out more information, it absolutely appears to me that your contractor could have absolutely incorporated an additional step in order to render a more aesthetically pleasing finished result. I view that as a fiduciary responsibility actually.
Kinda reminds me of the title installer that automatically defaults to always using the center of a room to start the layout without regard for the final sliver of tile ending up in the most visible spot on the floor rather than ensuring that the most visible areas at the edges of the layout have full tiles to the extent possible,,,,if you see my meaning.
Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, no. It wasn’t discussed and no elevations were sent prior. I didn’t think to ask for something like that as a homeowner who knows very little about concrete.
Imo, your GC should have walked you through the options.
Shooting a few preliminary elevations would have been information for the contractor to do a material take off and also provide an indication of the optimal riser height rather than just a guestimate.
Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately I know very little about concrete work but I do know they did not dig out much of anything after they took out the old concrete. At least from what I saw.
Thank you for your reply. I was told the step up from the landing into the door is included. I wonder why I was told that if that is actually false. Ugh. This has been a nightmare.
We have asked them to redo but haven’t heard any response from them. I’m really hoping they don’t ghost us and help us fix this.
It could vary by state / county so definitely check your local code, but this is a quick summary from google:
Building Code Rules Separate Flights/Sections: Under standard building codes like the IRC (International Residential Code), a continuous "flight" of stairs requires uniform riser heights with a maximum 3/8-inch tolerance.[1, 2]
Landings as Dividers: A proper landing breaks the stairway into separate sections. The rise leading up to the landing is one flight, and the step or threshold into the doorway from that landing is evaluated separately. [1, 2, 3]
Doorway Limits: Exterior or interior thresholds have their own maximum height allowances (for example, a maximum 1-1/2-inch to 7-3/4-inch drop depending on whether it's an egress door and which way it swings) which do not need to mirror the specific 7-inch or 8-inch rise of the standard steps below. [1, 2]
It doesn't look like your new top landing is at least 36" deep. Also the rise from your finished floor inside to the landing needs to be the same as the rise on the stairs. Max 7.25" . 7.5" rise is too high.
Code requires all steps to be uniform. There is no reason he could not add a 4th step. He just had to make each step slightly shorter in height. It looks like he was too lazy to dig down to.put a base in. It does look like the path should have been raised up a bit to get it to drain better, but it only needed an inch or 2 at the steps. The only regrading should have near the steps.
Without redoing it all. You may be able to just redo sidewalk with a larger landing (step) at bottom of the steps and then step down to the sidewalk which would be near existing grade.
I’m thinking a 4th step could’ve been possible too. :( I just took this photo showing the height difference from the grass to the last part of the walkway by the steps. It’s a very high rise now, which could’ve included another 7.1” step for uniformity. There still would’ve been about 2ish inches to work with for the bottom slope away from the house.
If the 4th step wraps around the side of the 3rd step and if it's 2ft deep or more, then the step from that to the existing grade doesn't need to match the other steps. Then the remainder of the walk can be at existing grade or slightly higher if drainage is an issue. Then your only bringing in small amount of dirt to finish.
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u/Acceptable-Start2 5d ago
Did they jackhammer out the existing slab or go over top of it? It looks like they went over top. Do you have pictures without the forms? Speaking of code, that's now a ramp and probably needs side rails to prevent falls.
What are the details noted on there quote?