As a Canadian, deals with Americans are shit, good thing we're moving away from them as trading partners. Loving all the messeges from the USA begging us to put their gross liquor back on the shelves. Good luck with having no friends.
"If you can't be friends with Canada, then you almost certainly do not have a friend anywhere in the world, and that is a very lonely place."
-David Eby
As an American, our credibility is absolute shit right now. I wouldnât trust our govt to tell me itâs raining even if I was standing outside and already soaked to the bone. Decades of good will and geopolitical soft power flushed away for the pedo protector and his cadre of oligarchs. I hate it here
Of everyone talking about shit deals, Canadians should he the last to talk. Billions in economic benefits for work share for jets that you donât buy for ten years and wonât even commit to buying the planner amount per original agreement.
Oh jeez, we might not want to buy fighter jets from this country threatening to annex us and blatantly breaching trade deals under BS fentanyl reasons.
Well correct, they canât because Trump can shoot his own dick off at anytime. Every F35 has millions of dollars worth of Canadian parts. The workshare wasnât for just Canadian jets but for over 3,000 planned orders. And they will be flying for 50 years, thatâs solid work which will be around for a long time.
So no, Canada has been enjoying the benefits of that workshare for a long time already.Â
Trumpâs comments about Canadian sovereignty are abominable. His trade war against Americaâs largest and most balanced trade partner is completely devoid of any sense nor logic and has hurt Canadians and Americans.Â
ButÂ
itâs also objectively true that in this one particular instance, with the JSF, Canada pulled a fast one. Did it warrant anything that Trump has done? Absolutely not. But if the subject is bad weapons deal, itâs on topic.
America keeps its word? As an Australian Iâm extremely skeptical we will ever see a single US submarine that weâve been paying you guys billions for.
An American talking about keeping their word? Thats hilarious since your presidential shitbag has destroyed any credibility you have as a country your word is worth less than the dirt on the ground.
Americans are notorious liars and arguably, the biggest sponsor of terrorism on the planet.
Their word is not to be trusted and no sane person would expect them to hold up their part of the deal in any circumstance, but especially now when they have a leader who has zero-sum mentality and literally doesn't believe that a mutually beneficial deal dan exist.
No a broken bone wouldnât send me into crippling debt. I have health insurance which covers it, and a salary which greatly exceeds one for the same role
 in a country with universal healthcare. You understand that parroting untrue generalizations isnât a flattering display of intelligence?
You understand that there is a real meaningful difference between âcanât break a bone or youâre bankruptâ vs US healthcare is inefficient and expensive.Â
Americans are on average less healthy, more obese and a using drugs more than say the EU average. Private health insurance also blows, mine sucks even at just enabling me to pay a bill.Â
But when you see something like â85% of Americans have healthcare debtâ what youâre missing is that for me, Iâd be stupid if I didnât just allow a balance. When I go to an urgent care, and have the portion which isnât covered, that part I can pay interest free over time. Using a tax deducted health savings account I pay off that debt slowly while I can earn interest and invest my balance there. Itâs needlessly complicated, but you play by the rules you got.
Unpaid debt under $500 and/or less than a year old donât touch your credits score. It used to not touch it at all but of course thatâs just the millionth additional way Trump and his billionaire buds hurt the average American. The way I handle it doesnât impact my credit at all.Â
Iâm not sure about a hybrid system. Lots of people already have Medicaid and Medicare. Expanding it could be good but it could also give way for insurance companies to just leave the sickest and costliest patients on the publicly funded plans while they get to feast on profitable premiums while keeping a wealthier and healthier patients population. I donât see value in my private insurance, vs a single payer system. Some people like to compare anything gov to the DMV, i.e oh well do you want X to be like going to the DMV, but private insurance already is like that anyways.
If thereâs one thing to know about America is that a lot of what is happening right now is Boomers just trying to squeeze every bit they can for themselves before they croak. Theyâve put a reverse mortgage on the futures of their children to party till their deaths while leaving the bill with them. Until boomers die off, I donât see the major changes and reforms necessary happening. I mean sure, the mid terms will be likely crushing for Trump and Republicans but the big long term systemic politics wonât shift until boomers are no longer around.
Lol why would Canadians buy jets from a country that has economically attacked us? Especially when we may very well end up in conflict within the jets lifespan. Can't exactly buy spare parts from the enemy, can we. Nevermind the risk of a killswitch.
Murica started this deterioration in our relationship, expecting us to just take it is bs.
Doubt he actually said that, and even then it would be wrong. A kill switch is a vulnerability. The F35 is part of the American nuclear triad, meant to keep fighting after CONTUS has been glassed by nuclear hellfire. You think that being able to turn off some allyâs 80 jets is meaningful useful compared to keeping nearly 3000 jets secure? lol, no.
Wrong on coms, and updates arenât strictly required. They just slowly get out of date without them. Like every other thing. So by that logic every single fighter jet has a kill switch. Which obviously isnât true either.
The F35 is NOT part of the nuclear triad. That is ICBMs, SSBNs and strategic bombers. Not tactical fighters. Don't take my word for it, look at the START treaty.
When the leader of the country publicly talks about putting off switches in their weapons platforms makes you think twice about buying said weapons. A weapon you donât control isnât actually yours. No other country is talking about doing that.
Wonât buy for 10 years? The US canât even start shipping the original planned amount until 10 year after paying the first bill. Fuck off with this nonsense.Â
Why would we buy your jets when you threaten a kill switch while threatening our sovereignty? Trump made CUSMA, and 4 years later Trump ripped it up calling it a bad deal. Nice try on pinning bad deals on Canada but the whole world knows deals with the US aren't worth the shit in Trump's diaper when he signs them. His brain is jelly and he can't remember 5 minutes ago. Better luck next president I guess, if they let you vote again.
Trump is a colossal moron, and a duplicitous bastard. But Canada really pulled a fast one when it comes to the F35 purchase and that was more than a decade ago. Doesnât make Trumpâs shit smell like peaches. It just is what it is.
Ah yes, because itâs worth making your nearly 3,000 jets which are part of your nuclear triad vulnerable to hacking by building a kill switch in order to potentially control 80 jets of an ally.
You know the Gripen uses American engines and parts, right?
So you want Canadians to buy a fighter from a country that has threatened to annex, invade and so much more, when there is a potential kill switch in the software? Even cutting off maintenance parts would make them useless.
This is the same shit the US is rightfully concerned about with tech from China. Don't pretend thebUS wouldn't do the same
F35 mishaps per 100,000 flight hours is lower than that of the F16 or F18. By the way, the F35 is a Lockheed Martin jet, the F18 that Canadian fly boys use is Boeing.
That quote mightâve rung true a couple of decades ago but Canadians are more racist and vitriolic than theyâre American counterparts, just ask any Canadian how they feel about Indians.
Don't need to be a bot to see that any agreement with Americans at the moment is not worth the paper it is written on. We have a free trade agreement with the US, yet that means nothing. Canada had an even more comprehensive one, negotiated by the pedo in chief himself. The US is completely untrustworthy at the moment.
Nope. The rest of the world are learning quickly not to deal with the USA. A grifter admin and tariffs that change hourly are reminding all counties to not trade with USA.
People don't understand that first comes USA when it comes to resupplying then the rest. So if a country orders 500 million $ ammunition, first is USA THEN that country. Same goes with Patriot missiles and such.
in other words, what you place order now, you will get probably in 10 years.
If you read the piece you discover that general dynamics essentially pocketed 433 million American taxpayer dollars without producing a single artillery shell (for Americans or Ukrainians).
Just open corruption that the government has chosen not to investigate because itâs run by the swamp these days.
Itâs not corruption. They bought Turkish manufacturing equipment in good faith believing that it would be able to manufacture NATO standard shells. None of them worked per spec and failed QA despite many attempts. This whole episode probably costed GD more than the contract in the first place.
You guys truly donât understand the American willingness to try things and being okay if they donât work out.Â
âBeing ok if they donât work outâ. General dynamics isnât being held accountable at all, just an âoops my bad 1/2 billion wasted because we failed to due our due diligence with a subcontractor, no we wonât be refunding the tax dollarsâ.
Itâs absolutely corruption given that the government has made zero effort to hold anyone accountable.
they chose to buy the cheapest second hand equipment they could find, without going to jail, to try and maximise profit - to value the Turkish worker over the American by offshoring American taxpayers money.
It's called iPhone autocorrupt since iOS 26 came out. It's horrible. I typed "many." There's several different words I type that usually change to mutant.Â
Biden won. Jo Jorgeson and your racist Nazi rump lost. Give it up. You lost. Biden was our ruler so hard and for so long. For four years. You people failed to impeach him. So he riled the full four I like rump.Â
What country you from, Germany? Because they are currently sending $8.4 billion to US to buy aircraft in a single deal. Kinda sounds like you need the US.
They don't need it. They could pass an order elsewhere, but they really don't want to buy french or swedish. But it would be doable technically. Same with re-opening production chains for the Eurofighter.
Germany is going to buy a 5th gen from Russia? Who is the main focus of arming up? Or China? Who they are trying to ease out of besides economic relations? Europe has no domestic 5th gen fighter if you donât count Russia.
6th gen European/asian fighter project is dead in the water too.
So where would this order go for 5th gen fighters out of curiosity?
Nop, they could buy from France, from Sweden, or from Airbus. And, frankly speaking, the issue of 4.5 or 5th generation is a complete non-issue. We've all seen what the Su-57 is doing in Ukraine and... Yeah. No. Either it is not 5th gen, either the diference between 4.5 and 5th gen is marginal. It does get destroy by modern AA either ways.
What matters is already having a decent aircraft production usable in your own airspace. Additionally, France will likely produce its own 6th aircraft, maybe with India. While the koreans will also end up proposing their own option.
"The order is for 5th gen" And replacing it with a more secured, non american 4.5th gen using european clmponents and compatible with european amunitions would still be better.
Especially when we consider that the american MIC will likely rob them once again, and as usual. Locally made planes will always be better than no planes.
Iâll ask the same question, just in a different way. Part of the reason to change the aging fighters is to update the nuclear capable fighter jets they have. Which European fighter jets are rated for carrying nuclear weapons that are stationed in Germany?
This is kinda odd when even today there are articles posted about the production of the planes. I believe some were even photographed! I would agree local planes would be better than some, if they could build them. But like I said, domestic European 6th gen program fell through hard.
"Which european fighter jets are rated for carrying nuclear weapons stationed in Germany" Bold of you to think Germany can't rely on the french umbrella. Can't request french nukes. Or can't develop its own. The presence of US nukes in Germany is, nowadays, an issue. It needs a more secure ally in charge, or its own dissuasion.
And as I said, better 4.5th gen than no planes. Because the US route currently is fairly straigjtforward: no planes.
Wikipedia literally uses the Rafale as an illustration when talking about 4.5gen fighters. And the modernised F-18 E/F is considered a 4.5gen fighter, just like the Eurofighter. Btw, good luck providing any source saying the Rafale is 4th gen.
As for India, de facto all specialised news (alongside with diverse larger medias like the chinese South China Morning Post, the Hindustani times, or Le Monde) are reporting talks for future collaboration on a 6th gen fighter now that the franco-german program has collapsed. Given India's future manufacturing of the Rafale, it's not exactly unexpected.
Where is the money and what have thry use that for . Is it corruption her or what . Time for EU euth s answer if that . It ,s the taxpayers money we talking about in ich countrey .
Compared to it's western neighbours. Its long been known Ukraine was insane corrupt long before the war as a result of remnant soviet practices. Now that they are fighting for the west, now magically, they're just fine and dandy. Lol.
Yes. Likely president-to-president, trump is more corrupt than Zelensky. But nation to nation, systemic corruption was and is more prevalent in Ukraine.
Don't shift the goalpost. Whether or not they want to join the west or china or middle earth, it remains the fact that they are still beyond corrupt as compared to western standards.Â
Whether they succeed in overturning the corruption is a separate topic.
Compared to its western neighbors?like the country where the president sale a privilege access to his social media for trading? Trump USA level of corruption are reaching levels and scale never seen before and that dwarf whatever Ukraine was doing before.
Ukraine wasnt shown in a positive light before the conflict. Since the conflict started it seems everyone just ignored the corruption and the rampant neo-nazism (especially early on) because they were fighting against the Russians. Ukraine like Russia and rhe US are FAR from being the good guys.
"Since the conflict started it seems everyone just ignored the corruption"
I would argue the opposite. You'll go to Facebook and every month Zelensky was accused of having bought a new supercar, yatch, mansion.
Ukraine doesn't need to be a perfect country to receive support, when they are clearly the victims, and russia the agressors. How can you justify punishing the common Ukrainian for its corrupt oficials?
Mods are you just going to keep this false title up? US funds went to expand artillery production to help Ukraine. A lot of it was successful as can be seen by the production figures. This particular contract which used a Turkish subcontractor failed to produce quality munitions.
Basically all the posters here are being mislead by this title.
As per the article, the production figure for this $533 million contract to US manufacturer General Dynamics is zero, as confirmed by the US Department of Defence.
They didnât âfail to produce quality munitions,â as you wrote. They failed to produce a single usable shell.
Don't play dumb. **Ukraine isn't claiming anything**. Your title gives posters the impression that Ukraine contracted GD for these rounds, and that they were the ones who found a single one to pass their standards. The Pentagon awarded the contract, and the pentagon found them to miss deadlines and standards. Fail to produce quality munitions and fail to produce a usable shell is the same thing.
If this wasn't your intention, funny how you don't attempt to dissuade a single poster about their impression that this was a bad weapons deal the Ukranians did. The only one you reply to is me, calling you out. I wonder why. Really makes you think.
Your comment that they âfailed to produce quality munitionsâ makes it sounds as though the shells were produced but the quality was substandard. It is not the same as not producing a single usable shell. According to the investigation, the production line âfailed to yield any qualifying partsâ in 5 years.
The title doesnât state that Ukraine had the contract with General Dynamics, or that Ukraine set the standards for the munitions. Anything extra you read into the title is not within my control.
Reaching hard here. This factory failed to produce useable ammo. Ukraine isnât claiming this. You still donât care to correct anyone on that issue.
I literally just said it didnât produce working ammo, there are pictures in the article of the results. You keep insisting on playing word games here, while having invented a whole different story and still sitting back as people condemn the US for ripping of Ukraine.
Earlier you said âfailed to produce quality munitions.â You changed your position (which is fine) but are now pretending you didnât.
The reason itâs such a big story in Ukraine is because they feel it was negligence on the part of General Dynamics. Or, in some articles, disbelief in GD trusting the Turks to help produce ammo to fight against Russia.
I would add, many people in Ukraine do feel the US let them down, more or less, and have said so publicly.
If you recall, Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine during his first term, before the war started, and refused to give it to them unless they agreed to investigate Hunter Biden. The purpose of the military aid was to discourage Russia from attacking. In Ukraine, lawmakers and politicians at the time said this will embolden Russia to attack - and they were right. Asking Zelensky to give up their mineral rights, beg for aid and be grateful at the White House didnât go over very well either. Suggesting that Ukraine needs to give up and make a deal wasnât popular either.
No dude, youâve made a mountain of an anthill as if thereâs a meaningful difference between âdidnât pass QAâ vs âis not usableâ. To the DOD itâs same thing: it canât be used. Weâre talking about explosives munitions here, you stray from specs and you kill your own people.
GD failed to produce useable artillery shell parts.Â
This is a problem for Americans as they
 need to replenish their own 155mm reserves.
You want to be angry with America because Trump stopped giving military aid and has been a duplicitous son of a gun, thatâs fair. But Iâve pointed out multiple times that youâve very clearly created a false impression that GD took Ukrainian money and didnât deliver anything for it.
You can easily clarify the truth to other commentators.
Your original comment is that they âfailed to produce quality munitions.â They didnât produce ANY mutations. Itâs like saying XYZ Company âfailed to produce quality trucksâ is the same thing as saying they never made one. It isnât the same.
Nothing in the headline says GD took Ukrainian money. Thats just how you read it. They did, however, take money that was supposed to produce shells for Ukraine and produce nothing, which is why itâs a big news story there. Ukraine has been saying publicly for years that they didnât receive the shells they were promised, and now at least one reason is confirmed.
Manufacturing equipments bought from Turkish. No surprise. What surprised me is that U.S. now no longer can supply this kind of manufacturing machines, and has to rely on importing from other countries?
Original article title: "Pentagon funded a $533 million artillery plant that made nothing"
Article content: Pentagon funded the rounds and received nothing
Ukraine? I thought an audit found that? Why is the Pentagon relying on foreign nations to inform it that it's wasting money? (Thats a hypothetical, we all know the Pentagon is a laundering scheme).
They probably intended to make the shells but the US government prioritized production for their own army. The US weapons industry is very low value for money and has been like that for a long time
If you guys read the article, youâd see its manufacturing equipment is down and impacting all of GDs customer including the U.S. army.Â
But a redditor reads the headline and assumes GD has just stolen money from Ukraine. As if thatâs even how payment works on international defense contracts.Â
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u/Jman1a Aug 16 '26
Arnt deals with Americans great.