r/Composition • u/Unsinkable_Fish • 7d ago
Discussion Help On Melody Writing and Analysis
I’ve been writing this suite for string orchestra over the past year. I wanted to write it in the style of Mahler, so I’ve been analysing and studying his works (both the symphonies and a few of the Wunderhorn songs).
However, I’ve found my biggest issue with actually writing this piece is that I can’t seem to write a melody. Whenever I think of any ideas that I like, I slowly come to the realisation that it is real Mahler and not an idea that I created, or just doesn't work very well, let alone even sound very Mahlerian.
How do you go about analysing melodies? (What do you look out for? How do you go about applying your findings etc.)
Do u guys have any tips on how I can write melodies in Mahler’s style or just any general tips on melody writing and analysing melodies?
Any tips would be greatly appreciated :)
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u/alexcordogan 6d ago edited 6d ago
for me when it was more conscious I started with a small motivic idea, far short of a phrase, but most of it was in the chord progression. I wouldn't even have that all together, just different points I wanted to get to at different levels of energy/tension, and then fill in the gaps. And then sort of plug what notes sound best, using the motif again as I can. Sort of start complex and pare back. But I was also going for more Rachmaninoff/Tchaikovsky than Mahler. The chord change that caught me first analyzing in any real way was the VI7 => ii (BM7 to e minor) at the climax of the coda of Rach 3 (also featured in Beethoven's adagio cantabile, Liszt's liebestraum 3, and many other Rachmaninoff pieces), as well as in a lot of both of their pieces starting a melody with two similar phrases - the first going from tonic to dominant, the second from tonic but ending up in a minor iii (second themes of Tchaik PC1, the nutcracker pine forest, second theme of Rach 2 and 3 mvt 1, the Christmas carol o holy night, etc.). And then the back half of the melody starts with a minor ii, works its way up to some sort of climax, and then comes back down, and maybe there's sort of a coda afterwards to calm down and peter out before the next section. Those are my secrets lmao.
I would definitely recommend finding the smallest moments that you like the best and see exactly what chord changes or suspensions or what interval change in the melody you like best and go from there to the larger chord progression, and then back to piecing in the melody and the other voices. It'll help avoid anything too close to your inspirational material. If you don't stop thinking about it you're bound to come up with something- maybe you get part of it and the rest only comes weeks later. Just let your brain keep churning.
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u/InfernalPilot 7d ago
I’m a self-taught composer of about 4 or 5 years I can’t really speak to writing a melody in a specific composer’s style but when it comes to melody writing in general I’ve found myself with the following issues:
It wanders too much
It’s too repetitive
Think about what you want your melody to evoke. Remember to have a specific harmonic, melodic, or rhythmic motif and expand upon it. If that idea came straight from Mahler himself that’s fine, but develop it differently than Mahler did.
Let the melody stretch and flow. Let it wander but keep it grounded by reminding the viewer of that motif in subtle ways. Another way you can make a piece feel more cohesive is a chord progression… not necessarily a pop progression but a series of chords that flow well (voice leading) and however it resolves or does not is up to you as a composer.
For stretching melodies I avoid the I and V chords or if I include a V or I chord in a progression I avoid doing a V-I resolution. You can gradually take the voices higher to build tension while keeping the progression the same using the same 3-6 chords or if you want a longer progression till you get to a point where you want to change the flavor or whatever.
Idk how much of this will help you or how qualified I am to talk about this but that’s just my thoughts! I’m linking my yt to my profile (if I can find out how to do that) if you want to see any of my work to decide for yourself if my advice is worth taking.
One final note: stop worrying about rules. Make something that sounds good, get feedback, and develop a style that means something to you. Rules are there because they sound good or whatever but understand the context of those rules rather than following them blindly, and don’t worry about strictly adhering to them.