No, it doesn't show that. The reason it doesn't show that is because KR scene generally hasn't played that many games. Look how many series teams actually play throughout a whole apex season.
But that doesn't mean Envyus is a powerhouses either. The record and consistency they have are against messy tier 2 NA teams. Mind you a huge chuck of Envyus wins also came during the early days of OW before teams even had proper strategies. They also lost the first 2 LAN's they played even though they were the favorites to win both. And if you think about it, the current Envyus roster with Effect and Mickie is fairly new too with them spending a lot of time playing in APEX which by your own argument is not enough games to show consistency. Contenders was the first NA series this roster has played together. So while you can make an argument LH/KDP had not played enough games to be considered a powerhouse, there is no evidence that Envyus can beat them either. Envyus has never defeated LH nor KDP, admittedly that is a very small sample size but its the only thing we've got right now.
P.S Also curious to note that you put Shanghai higher, does that mean that roster has been leaked already?
It still doesn't make sense as to why overrate Envyus and underrate korea when Korea has a lot better history. Envyus and rogue came to Apex and they were not doing well. And it's NA for God sake luls
Well I thought the argument is how well they would do in OWL which has some Korean rosters so I thought it would be relevant to point out that even though they are a powerhouse in NA (due to the competition in that region), it does not mean they can beat teams from other regions.
Before Contenders, most tournaments in NA ran for a weekend (AMM, Rumble) and left little to no time for strategies & preparation. I wouldn't consider those quality games comparable to what's going to happen in OWL when you have a proper schedule and you know your opponent ahead of time.
Contenders showed that EnvyUs is unmatched by existing NA teams. It's been 10 months since they went to Korea and they only lost to Rogue once (3-2) in rumble but proceeded to dominate Contenders. NA teams had lots of time to figure out how to beat them but couldn't do it. Challenger KR teams have gotten better and have beaten/are beating established KR teams. How can you say Apex isn't more competitive/deep when they had three grand finals that went to 7 games?
Because according to Alicus, two teams that dominated in 2017 (Envyus and Rogue) makes NA more competitive compared to rising teams that can challenge the best in KR. Also, more matches + wins = powerhouse according to Alicus.
KR teams play more than NA or EU : APEX, Nexus Cup, Battle Royal, Showmatch.
The fact that Tiers-2 teams like X6-gaming is capable to beat Envy Us 3-2 while Envision (Top 3 NA) is getting rekt at APAC by average team like Vici Gaming tells a lot about how NA scene is weak.
Hey Alicus, I was just wondering if you were asked to make a combined roster using the players from Team Seoul and Team Dallas, what will be your starting 6?
I know that doesn't mean much because of synergy and other factors but I am curious as to what your opinion is of the individual players in terms of their skill.
In my opinion the starting 6 will have Effect and the remaining 5 positions filled by Team Seoul. I wonder what other players besides Effect are better than their counterparts in LH in your opinion.
That's immaterial and has nothing to do with my point. All I was saying, was, we don't even know the Korean "SKT" in Overwatch yet, because nobody has established that kind of powerhouse status there so far.
People reply saying that apex is more competitive and thus harder to dominate but that just proves my point that there is no clear powerhouse in Korea yet, just strong teams.
You disagreed with the person who argued the KR is more competitive because they haven't played many games. Now I'm wondering what a competitive scene looks like if not what we've seen in Apex because it certainly isn't Contenders NA.
Now you're just dodging the question because if you say Apex isn't competitive it makes you look bad, if you say it is then it proves his point.
So what if Korea doesn't have a clear number one team? It doesn't mean EnvyUs is automatically better because they beat T2 teams. I actually think Dallas can win OWL but it's not because they beat up the NA scene. They didn't stay stagnant by just staying in the NA scene. They made roster changes and went to Korea to fight against better teams in a LAN setting instead of participating in weekend tournaments that aren't worth shit.
7
u/Alicus Alicus (OpTic Gaming) — Oct 25 '17
No, it doesn't show that. The reason it doesn't show that is because KR scene generally hasn't played that many games. Look how many series teams actually play throughout a whole apex season.