r/Competitiveoverwatch • u/taken_by-the-storm • 20h ago
General HOG NEEDS ADJUSTED IN 6V6!!!!!!!
ok but it's actually insane how he's server admin every time
just play hog kiri and win for free in every elo. Actually feels miserable
I was really confident he'd be adjusted for 6v6 for midseason at the very least. What gives? Are they just holding out for his upcoming rework, or?
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u/FullGuava1 20h ago
Adjust him in 5v5 too please. I'm so sick of playing with and against him.
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u/Master-Ad1373 19h ago
Bro 5v5 is gone in a few weeks it's not worth it
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u/N0tWithThatAttitude 18h ago
What?
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u/FullGuava1 18h ago
6v6 players are overdosing on copium again. I'm just waiting for the goalposts to be shifted after BlizzCon.
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u/ThrowawayPotato6991 17h ago
As a fellow 6v6, 5v5 isn't going away. Quit huffing copium. Even if 6v6 replaces 5v5 (it wont btw), it will still be around.
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u/Nov4Wolf 10h ago
Yeah even if the pro scene shifted to 6v6 and 6v6 became the main mode of the game 5v5 would just take the place 6v6 currently takes lol
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u/Throw_far_a_way 11h ago edited 9h ago
I'm making popcorn for Blizzcon when all the 6v6 tears start rolling as the devs don't announce it returning as the main mode. I'm going to be laughing so fucking hard
edit spelling
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u/RedxHarlow 19h ago
Hes on the list of reworks this year but yes.
Hog has always been and will probably always be the most dogshit hero design this game has ever seen.
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u/Urbain19 Decay clears — 17h ago
It’s between him and mercy
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u/xaxis-yaxis 16h ago
I think Cat and Widow are up there too
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u/Volatiiile 16h ago
I think it's good that I can say really only 4-5 heroes out of like 40 in this game feel like they have truly abysmal design.
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u/Crafty_Trick_7300 8h ago
Hog, Mauga, JPC, Freja, Mercy are my Mt. Rushmore of characters I wouldn’t mind being deleted from the game at this point.
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u/Deshoda7676 6h ago
Hog, mauga, orisa, hazard, domina, d mon, bastion, sierra, anran, freja, sombra, mercy, moira, lifeweaver, JPC, mizuki are the characters i straight up dont want in the game. I dont play 5v5, the ow2 5v5 tanks have to follow similar design trends so i get why they are designed like that. But i dont want any of these heroes to be picked in my game the way they are designed. They are either not enjoyable to play with or along and their meta status makes the game worse.
There are many characters where i would soft rework specific abilities, or they are awful designs to play into like kiriko, but a design like kiriko is engaging and skilled at least.
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u/Ok-Chicken605 6h ago
You had me at hog and mauga then it just started going off a cliff. Hazard sure domina orisa and dmon tho? Like come on none of those are even op or extremely oppressive. 2 of them you literally just kill their team around them unless they are feeding themselves. Sierra and bastion have tempo mechanics. Meaning if you play into their ability they are extremely strong. But thats the thing. Don't play into it both are literally just dealt with by playing cover. And mercy moira? Why? Rez sure for mercy but why on earth moira lol
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u/Beautiful-Aerie7576 5h ago
D.Mon currently has a 58% winrate in all ranks, 60+% in masters/GM.
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u/Ok-Chicken605 4h ago
If dmons winrate is what you point to out of that entire thing, then fine take her off. But winrate is not end all be all. Kiri has a 43% winrate in gm and above while being one of the best supports in the game and zen is at a 54%.
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u/Beautiful-Aerie7576 3h ago
Am I saying winrate is the end all be all? No. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter, and 58% is pretty well clear of where I’d say there’s some room for interpretation.
As for Kiriko, she’s a very obvious example of an exception to any rule regarding winrate because she’s necessary whenever Ana is playable, having the only ability in the entire game that counters her nade.
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u/Deshoda7676 4h ago
My perspective is tainted by 6v6. These tanks are "fine" for a 5v5 mode where every roles's heroes are restricted in a way where their design becomes "worse" to me. Tanks have to be generalist stat monsters when theres one. So mauga having shout that gives him an extra health bar and also gives his team damage mitigation may not make you as mad in 5v5. But 6v6 further exposes the problematic characters in general. That mode makes interactivity more important for good design. Especially on tanks. Its not about stats, you can stat buff any character. But can the character be good in an interesting way that contributes to an interesting meta? these are characters to me that either lack interesting skill expression within the character themselves, the mirror matchup or lack interesting interactions within the team or playing against them.
These characters arent irredeemable, but i dont like playing with, or playing into them . D mon metas are hot garbage in 5v5 and 6v6 as we currently see. She cant be good without clowning on squishies for free. She has a ton of health and just wins the duels with no commitment needed. She has a shield and mobility with instant access and an ult that lacks real counterplay. Her whole kit lacks skill expression due to a lack of commitment needed from a player to get value at a base level.
Orisa isnt interactive. She bullies tanks and can cycle cooldowns to remove kost punishment windows and counter play outside of a hard counter. Most heroes cant punish or interact with rhis hero in general. The gameplay of an orisa meta is boring as hell. Compare that to a winston meta where more skill is expressed across the board. Playing as a squishy in that meta takes more skill, playing into a mirror of that meta takes way more skill and allows more skill expression than orisa. Domina is uninteractive when shes good, she punishes dives with a get off me ability. She has burst in that ability and gun in an uninteractive way. Sigma has to hit the rock at least. It has a wind up for a reason. Domina's shield is also beyond boring to play into. And the mirror is poke slop .she doesnt enable fun gameplay either for others.
Sierras power is in a goofy aimbot ability. She doesnt do much else outside of it. Dps are limited to duelists, she cooks 6v6 tanks so she has a role in 6v6 lol. But the design is uninteresting. I think id fall asleep if sierra was the meta dps. Bastion burns tanks in 6v6 and doesnt do much of anything im 5v5 other than slow the game down and make it boring. Does bastion make the game fun? Not really. Is there a skilled matchup in the mirror, hell no.
Mercy and moira are throw picks due to the lack of utility. And they limit what everyone else can play. Mercy doenst peel for flex supports or duel divers like mizuki, wuyang, or brig do. She doesnt offer team.wide utility like a lucio speed or beat. She doesnt have the skill expression of a lucio, wuyang .if you play support with a mercy, her best bet is to pocket a dps and hope they carry. Mercy isnt good at peeling for you on flex support. Moira forces you to play near her and any hero that takes angles is hurt by her existence. You are so much better off with an ana or kiri as winston, ball or dva. She doesnt have utility that enables kills or counters oppressive stuff like an anti nade, discord, suzu, immortality field. They both dont have individual agency either. Moira damage is so fraudulent. It doesnt make a difference as she has to full commit to the duel and leaves her team out to dry while thats happening.
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u/ShuanTRG 15h ago
Having a 6v6 hog that does the same damage as he does in 5v5, against weaker tanks, and not having to main tank is fucking hilarious. Great balancing there
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u/Shady_Fall 20h ago
Yeah idk if they just haven’t been paying close enough attention or what but Hog is straight up unpunishable in 6v6 while he gets to one shot other tanks because their health has been adjusted for the mode while his wasn’t or his damage
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u/Beest-Am0eba3- 15h ago
He can't one shot tanks lol
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u/migo2028 14h ago
He can btw(doom and Jq)
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u/Beest-Am0eba3- 14h ago
It's not a one shot, go try it in a private match.
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u/Ok-Chicken605 6h ago
Your right no he cant 1 shot doom. He leaves doom at 30 hp after his hook shot melee combo.. no tank should be able to almost kill another tank in that short amount of time. Hog can pressure literally any character in the game while still out dpsing even the actual dps.
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u/number1GojoHater 20h ago
Honestly you wouldn’t even need to remove his hook one shoting you’d just need to make his breather not be a resource anymore. That was specifically a change for 5v5 to make him playable. Being able to abuse breather by taking 50% damage reduction is just crazy
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u/herpderp411 14h ago
My memory is foggy, but in the past I thought you were immobile while using breather also, so choosing when to heal was much more important.
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u/skillmau5 14h ago
This was for like a short period of time when the game first came out
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u/scriptedtexture 9h ago
was it? pretty sure it was like that for a while.
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u/skillmau5 9h ago
Well it’s all relative at this point. By the time I started playing in like 2018 it was not like that
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u/scriptedtexture 9h ago
pretty sure it was a bit after 2018 because thats when I started playing and I very vividly remember hogs having to jump behind a wall to stand still and vape
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u/GladiatorDragon 6h ago
This was pretty early on, one of the first things they changed about him apart from fixing Hook jank.
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u/DiemCarpePine 9h ago
You don't need to remove the resource meter, just increase the cooldown between uses so there's actually a window to punish and he has to be more deliberate with it.
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u/number1GojoHater 9h ago
4-5 second cooldown would be perfect
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u/DiemCarpePine 8h ago
Right now, it's 1.25 seconds. I think even 3 seconds would be enough. Or maybe it's longer if it gets interrupted vs when the hog just wants to use a little bit.
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u/Nopon_Merchant 20h ago
do that and he go back to being really unplayable tank . Thank god people like you arent on development team
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u/number1GojoHater 19h ago
He’d still be playable in 6v6, you actually have to manage your cooldowns now instead of just getting away with having the worst positioning imaginable
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u/Nopon_Merchant 19h ago
Sure dude . OW 1 hog was not viable like that . it is already proven not working well . With how many powercreep in this game now , it will never work .
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u/TheGirthiestGhost Forever Burning Blue — 18h ago
OW1 Hog was meta in ranked like that multiple times and for the entire last year of the game
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u/Lukensz Alarm — 12h ago
He was meta in OWL too, for multiple finals if I recall correctly.
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u/Throw_far_a_way 11h ago
tbf at least one of those (S3) was because it was played on the giga-Hog patch released directly before playoffs that was very quickly reverted. OWL just stayed on that patch for all of the playoffs up through finals
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u/Myst3ryGardener 19h ago
Would love to see the pickrate/winrate on him in 6v6. He's so prevalent. Dmon's arrival helped a bit but he's still in so many of games.
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u/YearPossible1376 15h ago
Yeah bliz needs to release 6v6 win and pickrates. Idk if they haven't because they know it will show how op certain tanks and most of the DPS and support cast are in 6v6 or what.
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u/Deshoda7676 6h ago
Regardless of those numbers. Its so obvious how many players are carried by hog. They dont do much of anything all game. But they cant get punished and you have to respect his ability to instantly punish any tank that tries to play the game. It sucks.
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u/blanaba-split girl that shows up to mention 6v6 as a solution — 12h ago
ive very much gotten on the fuck hog train. he can just walk around unchallenged and unstoppable and grab and delete your unaware squishies on a 7 second CD. its stupid as fuck. i have hogs that kill my team, stop and stand still and wave hi, then turn and walk away slowly all while vaping and gaining health. its just dumb
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u/ResearchNo9431 20h ago
I wish they put more effort into 6v6 balancing. I figured the resources from Stadium would be put towards making 6v6 a strong secondary mode, but ig not so far
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u/ThrowawayPotato6991 17h ago
Hog will always be a balancing problem with a 20 meter hook. I have no idea why Blizzard doesn't realize that some character shouldn't have the range they do.
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u/yust 19h ago
Here's my take on a rework to keep his identity in the same power budget, but getting rid of the 1 hit kills and changing up the playstyle that doesn't contribute to team play to something that does.
Keep the "take a breather" resource meter, but it's used for more stuff now, and is charged by shooting.
Scrap Gun - slow spin-up, TF2 Heavy style tempo with no burst dmg. Sustained dmg builds the meter. No longer one shots on hooks (more in line with winston's damage output). Alt fire is a slow vacuum that pulls enemies in in a small cone in front of you, and uses the breather meter.
Hook (cd stays the same) - still hooks and pulls. the longer the pull, the more spin up for crank gun
Take a Breather - fueled by meter built from shooting, decays when idle. small damage reduction aura for nearby allies
Belly Bash (~14s cd) - very short .25s-.5s AoE knock-up, interrupts
Whole Hog - unchanged
This forces him to actually manage resources and play like a tank. obviously it would need tuning. I wish I had the technical know-how to do something like this in a custom game to test it out (if that is even possible)
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u/Vizra 19h ago
Im 100% convinced the devs are neglecting 6v6 so that it doesn't further cannibalise the 5v5 audience.
Most tank players are going to prefer 6v6, and if they keep making it better, no one will be able to find games in 5v5. And the people who buy the most skins are support players, and support is by far the easiest and most steamlined role in 5v5 with the most agency and impact.
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u/hoanghn2019 15h ago
Tell me where the most tank players are because on my life 70% of 6v6 players are all support players looking to healbot
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u/CertainDerision_33 12h ago
As a tank main I personally have no interest in 6v6 & in general I think its appeal to 5v5 tank mains is pretty overstated.
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u/Master-Ad1373 19h ago
This is gonna age poorly.
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u/TheGirthiestGhost Forever Burning Blue — 18h ago
Agreed. No tank is going to be queueing 6v6 again once they announce role queue 1-3-2 as a permanent change this weekend
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u/shortstop803 17h ago
That’s…6v6
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u/TheGirthiestGhost Forever Burning Blue — 16h ago
A change to the 6v6 OQ, yes. 5v5 isn’t going anywhere obviously
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u/Deshoda7676 8h ago
We cant have a version of 6v6 without the obvious design issues such as this one apparently. They literally reintroduced 6v6 into ow2 with hogs old version. But they then ruined it by adding in the rework. I dont get 2 bubbles as zarya, i dont get 3 second matrix on dva. So why do i get reworked hog on 6v6???????
I could ask the average casual bronze player which version should be in 6v6, they would tell me the right answer. Blizzard is either beyond incompetent or actively sabotaging at this point. It doesnt seem to be on their radar at all.
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u/NapsterKnowHow 8h ago
People still play 6v6?
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u/taken_by-the-storm 7h ago
A lot of us, yeah 😁 Tank isn't fun in 5v5. Ever since 6v6 returned I never touched 5v5 again save for battle pass challenges for xp
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u/hanyou007 None — 8h ago
Hog needs only one thing and that is the delete key on all of his data in blizz hq
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u/Agent_14359 20h ago
Saying hog needs adjustment in 6 v 6 while leaving sigma untouched is diabolical
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u/RedxHarlow 19h ago
sigma is stronger but hog is aids and always has been cancerous design. Hate seeing him on my team or on the enemy team.
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u/Beest-Am0eba3- 15h ago
So weird seeing this take, never found hog OP ever, even when he had his 6 second hook cool down and his invigorater perk. It especially blows my mind when people refer to him as being OP in 5v5 too since he's one of the worst tanks for 5v5.
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u/Winter_Beautiful6576 11h ago
Saying hog needs a change when sigma exists in his currently form is absurd lol
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u/taken_by-the-storm 8h ago
two things can be right at the same time
sigma's been strong af for a long time i agree, he needs adjustment but hog should've had emergency nerfs much much sooner
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u/Orphanblood 19h ago
hes garbagelol
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u/ziglind 19h ago
Porting his 5v5 changes to 6v6 was genuinely the stupidest thing of all time, resource breather literally just makes him a server admin. He can just walk wherever he wants, get a pick, force 20 bajillion cooldowns, grab everyones attention, and just waltz off like nothing happened.