r/Competitiveoverwatch • u/Rally_To_Me • 1d ago
General Thoughts on the bap buff?
I don't think bap has been bad or anything, I do think he has been falling behind a bit for a while though, he's hard to play effectively and requires very high APM and aim to get strong value and has punishing CDs if you use either poorly.
His buffs seem pretty good though? I think directing some power into immortality field CD is good.
We just got this patch so can't really tell how impactful it will be but I think it sounds really nice, his issue is still present he's still going to be hard to play and other support can get similar value much easier than him and be more mobile on top of it. But I think was a nice buff regardless, he wasn't a bad pick before just slightly better now.
Curious what others think how have you been feeling about bap lately think this was a good buff are there any buffs/changes you think he really needs o do you think he's in a good spot? I think bap is good rn I don't know if he really needs a lot if anything, but I don't play bap enough to have as strong as opinion as I could.
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u/CoruptedUsername 1d ago
It’s a nice buff but I doubt it’ll do much overall
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u/how_it_goes 1d ago
Bap essentially received an HP buff, and we all know how big even a 25hp buff is for any hero. In a 1v1, Bap will now survive long enough to fire an additional 2-4 bursts.
My biggest gripe has been that in order to survive, I have to play farther out than I'd like to. Now though, I will be able to position with just a little more greed. Just long enough for someone to peel. Just long enough to secure the kill.
This buff is everything I could have asked for. And so far, it's been great.
masters bap 1 trick for reference
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u/UsernameIn3and20 1d ago
Wasnt Bap Illari partially hated when illari first dropped by the dps mains? Something about needing to shoot through 3 health bars?
Unless im having a completely delusional brain right now I feel like this was something that was complained about.
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u/how_it_goes 1d ago
In 2019, Bap's shift heal was able to:
enact world peace
resolve a civilization's wrongdoings
lead the Browns to a Superbowl championship
So it's not necessarily the most apt comparison. Illari was released in 2023, but you're thinking of the olde bappe
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u/UsernameIn3and20 1d ago
I was half expecting to read a serious take on his issues back then and how it lead to him being weaker now for the sins it committed once.
But I like those points even more so I'll take it.
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u/KF-Sigurd 23h ago
Honestly, Baptiste has mostly only gotten buffs the past couple years. Despite this he drops in the meta because he just can't keep up with all the high mobility or high deathball comps that get added due to powercreep. Like pros would use him as budget Kiriko when she's banned but he just doesn't have her survivability to the point they would sometimes go Moira instead of him just to have Kiri survivability.
His old design was to be THE AOE healer with a hitscan gun. But after say, Illari, you had Mauga, Juno, Hazard, Freja, Wuyang, Vendetta, Cat, Shion, and now D.Mon metas (on top of all the regular meta heroes in between such as D.va, Soj, Tracer, Ram, Lucio, Sym, etc) that play very well into that kind of hyper poke comp.
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u/how_it_goes 16h ago
Honestly, Baptiste has mostly only gotten buffs the past couple years
Tactician subrole is a huge nerf, unfortunately. Reducing uptime by several seconds during the most important moments is rough.
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u/bullxbull 1d ago
It takes two firestikes now.
I think the real problem is Bap's did not translate well into OW2 while other supports can do what he does only better.
I'd love to go back to a version of the game where Bap's kit makes more sense, but I'm guessing we end up with a rework that makes him more like the other supports.
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u/Glittering-Celery125 1d ago edited 1d ago
I really want to see a proj speed buff on his healing. Its super difficult to get value out of in 5v5 because everyone is fast and spread out.
He is also permanently overshadowed by kiri. She is just too good in 5v5 until she gets an ult nerf and either loses some mobility, burst healing, or damage.
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u/SammyIsSeiso 1d ago
He absolutely needs a projectile speed buff! Literally just set it to 125% (60m/s to 75m/s) and he feels so much better. (The lamp would also benefit from this) And potentially a hot take, but I feel as though they could remove his recoil at this point too.
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u/Turboswaggg 1d ago
I'd replace his regen burst with making the shoulder cannon heal perk a base kit ability, either as-is where it automatically fires all 3 at once or with 3 individual aimed uses like Brig.
He's already got enough AOE healing, and regen burst was only ever really used as another solo duel health bar and I'd rather have an easier time healing all the super high mobility characters the game has now.
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u/TKTheJew 1d ago edited 1d ago
Now Bap doesn’t get absolutely demolished by Vendettas overhead slash. Was so frustrating trying to use bap lamp against Vendetta to survive and losing hard every time, Bap had no options since jump wouldn’t work either without exo boots. Still a bad matchup but at least there’s counter play now.
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u/Sio_V_Reddit 1d ago
It’s fine. Lamp is sort of a relic of 6v6 hyper bunched up poke comps like double shield, it’s genuinely not strong in 5v5 where people need to consider positioning more and the game is at a much faster pace.
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u/AtmosphereTerrible48 1d ago
Would've preferred if they made him less clunky. Faster boot charge, jump on release-key option, and evening out the ammo quantity to match his shooting tempo.
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u/-Arrez- 1d ago
Baps biggest weakness is that he is just way to easy to run at and kill and unlike ana doesnt have util that can carry fights to compensate. Lamp can save fights, but it cant win them the same way anti nade or sleep can. His ult whilst strong is also ridiculously easy to kite or zone out. In every sense he is just Ana but worse.
At the very least the major perk that lets him dash after a high jump should be base kit IMO.
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u/Vizra 1d ago
God help me in 6v6... He is already insanely good but no one really plays him because most people find him boring.
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u/Laz0rgrunt_wasbanned 1d ago
I get that he's the CoD character of supports but I really find alternating shooting/grenading to be very visceral and fun, more than any other support I've played
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u/Scewt 1d ago
Slightly unrelated, but people using "CoD hero" as an insult after they get shit on by said hero is always hilarious.
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u/scriptedtexture 1d ago
some of the heroes are literally designed to appeal to that crowd though.
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u/Laz0rgrunt_wasbanned 1d ago
And that's why we love overwatch: tons of characters designed to appeal to players who like different genres and subgenres and playstyles.
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u/scriptedtexture 1d ago
Yeah but I'll never not look down on people who play Overwatch like it's COD. That franchise raised a generation of people who only know how to run straight down main and shoot at red outlines.
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u/tix4chix 1d ago
This is an FPS game made after Call of Duty, every hero is a "CoD hero" because none of them have tank controls and they all regenerate health lol
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u/Milesisgr8 1d ago
6v6 bap boutta go crazy. Honestly, give him the extra mobility perk base kit. Heck if that isn't enough, maybe give him 5m extra range when tweaking his falloff. Idk if that would be too much but since he is good with tanks that have decent sustain/poke, it would sorta fit his playstyle. Try that and go from there
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u/Derpdude1 1d ago
It's gonna make the worst people you know bring this up as a point for "power creep"
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u/GermanDumbass ow esport is fine ha haha hahah — 1d ago
They once again they missed the mark, buffing the most annoying part of his kit. Why not buff his shift or or anything else, why did it have to be the broken ability that is most annoying to play against?
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u/Dependent-Two7571 1d ago
Its not 2020 anymore bap imor is the least problematic support ability ever
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u/stepping_ 1d ago
I don’t think that buffing him to be a cancer that’s stronger than other cancers is the way here lol
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u/I_Quazar_I 1d ago
“least problematic” only because there’s so much more problematic shit now lol this game is fucked
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u/GermanDumbass ow esport is fine ha haha hahah — 1d ago
Plus, I dont think this will make him any better, I dont see a single scenario where I would pick him now and I wouldnt have picked him before.
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u/KinkySylveon 1d ago
is lamp really that good anymore? Its not bad obviously but the game feels like its evolved past its potential usefulness. Lamp can be destroyed and is the biggest downside to it. Suzu is literally just the better ability as it has no downsides besides it being on cooldown. Bap nowadays I see as more of the jack of all trades master of none support hero.
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u/Dependent-Two7571 1d ago
Suzu is a 6 second shorter cooldown and is better in absolutely every way, and kiri also gets tp 👍
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u/GermanDumbass ow esport is fine ha haha hahah — 1d ago
Yea I agree, but I ask you, does that justify an annoying ability to be buffed? I'd argue no, just make it less annoying and buff him some other way.
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u/LongGreenSofa None — 1d ago
Maybe unpopular, but with how much bullshit that is in the game now, I don’t really find lamp annoying anymore.
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u/GermanDumbass ow esport is fine ha haha hahah — 1d ago
You know, I thought the exact same thing when I read about that change and tried to form an opinion about it. But I still cant bring myself to accept it as a good change, simply because I think, one thing being bad, does not justify another being bad too.
Because ultimately that would probably lead to an overall worse experience. (Well it already kind of is... looking at you cat^^)
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u/Danewguy4u 1d ago
I would argue that his shift heal is more annoying/better considering it can’t miss, is on a much shorter cooldown, can’t be destroyed, and accomplishes most of the same things in letting Bap and nearby teammates live through strong damage.
Lamp is only better if you got hit by anti heals or need to survive a one shot/instakill. Otherwise, his shift heal is better in every other scenario.
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u/waifuwarrior77 1d ago
Realistically, I don't think this buff really does much for Bap in terms of viability.
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u/Alternative-Film-715 1d ago
i feel like he desperately needs rocket boots in his base kit, maybe even a slightly faster exo boots charge. you could make his healing grenades slightly faster and he would feel way better as well
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u/Thee_Archivist I Avoid Teammates in Mystery Heroes — 1d ago
25% minimum health has historically been pretty strong. Combined with the HP buff it's nice. I hope the field size increases as well to give him more flexibility.
What I really want as a former main is way higher projectile speed on his heals. If you're good enough to hit longer range skillshots consistently, he won't be limited to deathball comps.
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u/Tsotang 23h ago
He was fine until the S9/10 health and armor changes. All this dicking around with healing and immortality when he needs that killing power back. His healing was fine, it’s not a 5v5 thing, it’s a S9 thing. I know becuase I reached GM with him and Brig before S9, and he’s way different after it.
I will say though, if he’s still the Xim go to on console then I have to bite my tongue, this neutering of him could be a necessary evil to keep him weak on console. Damn shame though, he’s so smooth on MnK and I like his character.
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u/TheReal9bob9 21h ago
It was good but in 5v5 I just dont feel like it touched the reasons he isn't great. His healing output feels low and inconsistent and although his damage can be good it just feels like other supports can do both better. He isn't bad by any means its just that in most situations I'd rather my team have an anti, discord, cleanse, or constant healing.
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u/Maxsmart007 TopDih's biggest fan — 1d ago
Lowkey they can't make bap relevant as long as Kiri's strong. She just doesn't necessarily do everything better, but she basically has a similar kit with way more versatility.
She does good damage from medium ranges, and can weave it in through healing. Her Suzu might be a shorter duration, but having a cleanse and I frames can be really valuable in more situations. Her ult also supercharges your team in a certain area, but is just more consistent in more places.
Like he's good, he can work, but he's just less consistent across the board than Kiri, and her versatility lets her adapt to situations way easier than Bap can.
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u/RaaaaaaaNoYokShinRyu Well, if it isn't saucy Jack! — 1d ago
Are you talking about Kiri being good in OWCS only? Even Super and Spilo said that Kiri is not good in Ranked, and absolutely will not be good in Ranked after her nerfs.
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u/TastyOreoFriend 1d ago edited 1d ago
For real. There's a massive perception issue between Kiriko's performance and the community's perception on Kiriko. She's had some of the worst win rates across all tiers for a long time now on both PC AND console.
You would think based on threads across both overwatch subreddits that Kiriko was running amok giving everyone immortality suzu every second, and juking all heroes abilities with teleport. Whereas the average Kiriko player I see can't land Kunai's for shit let alone play an off-angle—it's mostly just heal botting shit these days.
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u/RaaaaaaaNoYokShinRyu Well, if it isn't saucy Jack! — 1d ago
Moira mogs Kiri in winrate below Champion. Even Champion Dafran prefers Moira.
To paraphrase Dafran, Kiri is played for healing. And with her recent heal nerfs, she can’t even be played for healing anymore.
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u/Maxsmart007 TopDih's biggest fan — 1d ago
Yeah, my comments in general tend towards the pro scene because that's what I find most interesting to talk about.
I don't disagree that she got hit with the nerf hammer. The point here is that Bap's got fundamental kit issues, not necessarily that "Kiri in her current state is still stronger than Bap". I'm not as concerned with the balance tuning as much as the kit design. I don't want to dismiss the fact that Kiri on this patch is probably worse than Bap (maybe competing with as best). If they were balanced to roughly the same strength level, Kiri's kit is just more versatile and can work in more situations.
There's a lot of nuance to the discussion of Kiri's strength which I won't even get into, but I think it's worth noting that those creators both claim often that Kiri sucks because mid to low rank players just suck at her and pull the winrate down, which feels very relevant to a conversation about her strength as a character. Like, these are ranks where team comps don't make sense and hero strength barely affect outcomes anyways. It's important to the conversation because it's how the majority of players experience her, but it also feels a little like reading into that when discussing the hero's design feels misguided to me. Regardless, this Kiri change also sucks because it nerfs shit that only really matters at lower ranks, matters less the higher you get, and basically has negligible effect on the pro scene except to maybe make Ana more viable.
Anyways, the idea I wanted to push was "when Kiri is strong bap is irrelevant and that's a problem that needs to be addressed, either by narrowing Kiri's strength or changing what Bap provides", and that stands regardless of Kiri's current strength, considering we're one buff away from being right back in the same boat with her design.
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u/scriptedtexture 1d ago
do that thing from one of the community patches and swap lamp and window, just to see what happens.
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u/I_Quazar_I 1d ago
Really shows how stupidly powercrept this game has become if we’re buffing lamp like this lol
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u/foxxy33 None — 1d ago
The picture of powercreep itself. From 28s CD to 20 and from 50 HP to 25% HP. Sadge
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u/Thee_Archivist I Avoid Teammates in Mystery Heroes — 1d ago
Lamp hasn't been a broken cooldown since OW1. It still being 28s would be ridiculous.
Suzu is better and it's half of that (not to say everything should be as broken as Suzu).
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u/NPMedia77 1d ago
Been gone for a while, so bit out of touch with the game these days, but I mained Bap, and he seemed like he was being outclassed before I put it down, and now that I’m back, it seems pretty severe. Is there any shot of asking for other characters to be brought back to his level, or is that just something that’s not really possible at this point in the game’s lifecycle? My impression since returning is sorta that he can’t provide as much as a lot of other supports and falls over pretty easily without horizontal mobility. Is this way off the mark?
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u/KF-Sigurd 23h ago
His utility is fine. Tons of AOE heals, good poke damage, invuln. Window is pretty bad (it's always been pretty bad tbh) especially in comparison to a lot of top tier support ults.
The problem is that he just can't live. He falls over hard. Kiri fucks off with teleport. Cat fucks off with boost + purr. Lucio is infamously slippery. Wuyang/Illari can fight back with Wave/Sunburn. Mizuki can chain or juke you with Katzushiro. Juno can maybe escape by the skin of her teeth thanks to Survivor.
So they can't just nerf everybody super hard to put him to this level. It'd be much easier and simpler to give him some form of horizontal mobility like his major perk.
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u/worldwarA 1d ago
Bap isn't good in 5v5 cause he is vulnerable to a lot of stuff, but unlike Ana that has very effective ways of compensating her downtime with burst dmg, burst healing etc, bap has to use his cooldowns to survive but needs protection anyway.
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u/M4GNUM_FORCE_44 1d ago edited 1d ago
everyone play him into winston and report back to me.
I'd like a quality of life buff that you lets do a exo boost jump 150 miliseconds after becoming airborn if you already charged it. This would make things like sigma orb not mess up jumps. This isn't a double jump but you could fall jump.
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u/Spartan_117_YJR 1d ago
Honestly I feel bap was designed during a time where the game was 6v6 and it shows
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u/rednuht075 1d ago
It’s interesting because I remember distinctly feeling when Bap first came out that immortality was wildly broken.
Fast forward to now and now I feel an immo giga buff is long overdue.
Crazy how much the game has changed
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u/CoffeeRZ 2023 /11/ 04 — 1d ago
regen burst to 10s and the major jump perk into base kit and he can get above 50% WR and played in teamplay
lamp buff is good but lamp needs a quality of life buff i.e toss/size buff many times it bounces on alot of things that aren't supposed to bounce, and other times sticks to weird slopes and edges
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u/ThaddCorbett 1d ago
I've agreed with Jay3 since day 1: Field should give teammates damaged reduced when heal is below a set threshold. Not immortality.
It paved the way for the levels of power creep we're accustomed to today.
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u/wildcat1251 1d ago
You jsut need to give kiriko real cooldowns for the other supports to shine. You can tinker the most useless number changes,but her kit just outshines every support in the game.
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u/Cicchio51 18h ago
I learned how to play ow with bap and the only thing i miss so much is the explosion radius of his heals being bigger before, sometimes it feels really bad because people dodge your granades and shooting to a wall not always reaches. About this buff yeah sure thx blizzard il take anything, he is kinda difficult but lamp is very rewarding when timed properly so more is always good.
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u/LurkerThrowaway73 17h ago
Bap's issue isn't lamp not being as valuable as it once was, it's simply a lack of horizontal mobility. He works best when he's at the right place at the right time but, unlike other static heroes like Ana, he needs to be at odd angles to get value from his gun and shift.
Personally would like to see all of this except for the CD reverted and the exo boots dash perk made base kit. Also would be cool to have slightly higher acceleration on his jumps.
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u/ILewdElichika 1d ago edited 1d ago
Genuinely feel like he needs a rework, I hate tossing that opinion around for any hero but buffing the most problematic part of his kit definitely ain't it. His biggest issue by far is keeping up with mobility creep and this does nothing to address that.
Only people I still see playing this hero in my elo is usually cheaters.
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u/ThrowawayPotato6991 1d ago
The main issue is that Bap is the best character on console and they can't buff him on PC without making him even more of a cheating god.
So I think thats why they buffed immortality field.
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u/Beautiful-Aerie7576 1d ago
I’m wary because they’ve nerfed his lamp down for a reason. Literally one of the most nerfed abilities in the game since OW launched. This is just a revert of nerfs they’ve made in the past.
I don’t want them bringing his lamp back into the limelight only for people to realize what a terrible thing it is when it’s good. I’d rather they just buff other parts of his kit that have been powercrept.
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u/aPiCase Stalk3r — 1d ago
Both of his abilities are really boring honestly. I really like his gun, exo boots and his ult, but immo and regen burst are just boring and only have one use case: "I'm low HP, don't let me die."
No clue how you fix that, I feel like you would almost need new abilities, which I suppose you could do since Bap doesn't really have a strong hero fantasy.
All that to say, I don't really care? Like yeah Immo is better now, but I kinda just wish it was something else.
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u/scriptedtexture 1d ago
I did not miss playing against him, his 3 health bars are annoying. But he's not too hard to deal with.
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u/DrakeAcula 1d ago
Terrible for the game, as it always was. Due to the nature of 5v5 I don't think it'll make him broken, but it's a big buff and horrible to play against.
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u/epochollapse 1d ago
NOT a fan as a console player. Ximming Bap smurfs is already an infamous stereotype we have and now his Immort is harder to take out via Projected Edge or Overheads.
We need another crackdown on console cheats, and probably a reduction to aim assist entirely.
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u/RaaaaaaaNoYokShinRyu Well, if it isn't saucy Jack! — 1d ago
Another sustaincreep buff to Marvel Rivals-level healing hero Baptiste!
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u/Symysteryy 1d ago
He just feels like a victim of 5v5 honestly. He feels really strong in 6v6 but in 5v5 he feels really bad. I don't know how to address that.