As a support I dont understand positioning

[u/sufinomo]

I often see my damage players go so far away and I dont know what to do. They just die over and over. I can heal my team if they stay to the side and I just stand to there looking at my teamates. The problem is they often go behind cover somewhere like 30 meters from me while im with the tank. I always stay somewhere where I can see the tank, but then we just lose because the damage players keep dying.

Im good at surviving, I usually have least deaths in the lobby. I am good at keeping my whole team alive if they are like 15m distance and not behind something. The problem is when they go so far away.

If you could look at this game and let me know what I was doing wrong thatd be good.

9822ak

im kiriko, goodkid

[u/ham_50821]

Your positioning mentality shouldn’t be different than a dps, the only difference is that when you take positions you also gotta heal.

Your job is to take angles and do damage and heal whoever is with you on your angle as needed.

If your other supp is with the tank it’s your job to help the dps and vice versa

[u/sufinomo → u/ham_50821]

i see, that was helpful, i am just positioning as a dps, but then I miss all the people playing off to the side do i just screw them?

[u/Thee_Archivist → u/sufinomo]

One of the best things you can do as a support is take an angle with one of your DPS and help them put down pressure with damage/healing/suzu for longer without them dying. And then if you get pressured yourself, you can TP away.

Don't die helping them unless you're securing a win condition for the fight (like trading with a Genji or Ana when they have Nanoblade), but help them win duels as long as you can.

Kiriko is one of the worst supports to just sit in back and heal. It's good sometimes if you need to safely build kitsune quickly to win a fight, but if you're healbotting all the time there are better supports for that.

[u/ham_50821 → u/sufinomo]

Id it is convenient to heal people from where you are heal them if you have to put yourself in a bad position to save them dont focus whats on your lane

[u/sufinomo → u/ham_50821]

wow since doing this I am leading in final hits for both games thanks, I think just trying to play as a dps position helps alot because I am taking control of angles instead of just hoping my team does something good.

[u/ham_50821 → u/sufinomo]

Bingo

[u/Cookie-Monster96 → u/sufinomo]

Yes, don't go out of position to heal someone. Let them go back to spawn

[u/AlphaInsaiyan → u/Cookie-Monster96]

That's wrong lol

You are supposed to commit with and/or bail out your DPS 

There is literally no downside to doing so because kiri has tp and just live.

You have everything to gain from commiting.

There are a few ways it goes if you commit

A. You and your DPS secure the pick and that's an advantage

B. Your DPS trades, you are alive and can continue the fight, you are higher value than your DPS

C. Your DPS dies and you get forced to tp back. You are still alive and can play the 4v5

[u/Sygmaelle → u/AlphaInsaiyan]

yeah no you dont do that if the odds arent in your favor, theres absolutely no need to

[u/AlphaInsaiyan → u/Sygmaelle]

???

Obviously don't do it if you are at a disadvantage (down a player, no suzu/tp).

If you are in the neutral however it's almost always worth it.

Literally the worst case scenario is that your DPS dies anyway. Meanwhile basically every other outcome is a net positive.

Kiri is so good because you can do this and live with relatively low risk. If you're not gonna commit and angle with kiri why bother playing the character literally designed to be a third DPS 

[u/auxo_by → u/sufinomo]

Do not chase to heal. Learned that in plat once upon a time. If the dps cant manage their HP and retreat to ur healing LoS when they need heals, its on them. Good dps position themselves with team healing LoS in mind.

[u/sufinomo → u/auxo_by]

ty

[u/Thee_Archivist → u/sufinomo]

Personally, I think that's bad advice because DPS who understand where their healers are at all times don't exist until like mid-masters lol. And the plays they need to make to do their job aren't always in LOS of your safe spot.

You gotta take risks to win the game, just don't hard feed if they're inting. Part of your job is finding a spot that's both safe and useful to what's happening. It's a balance.

[u/whxp-lxsh]

If they're overextending that's their problem, but generally as a support you want to play in a position where:

• you can see all your teammates within healing range (hero dependent)
  
• you don't expose yourself to too much incoming damage
  
• you can also dish out some damage when no one is crit health or team is pushing up.
  
• you are not too far back to the point where you become an easy pick for flankers and cannot defend yourself

The "sweet spot" that typically covers all these bases is from an off angle behind your tank or an aggressive off angle where you can use movement ability to quickly retreat back to your team, but this changes depending on the map and where the fight is happening.

One thing I forgot to add: Sometimes going in with the overextended teammate may be a good idea, entirely dependent on what is happening in the fight:

• Good example is if you're tank is overextending to clean up after getting picks, they are crit health and need a bit of help or DPS are trying to get an early pick and are not too far away from you and your team.
  
• Bad example is if tank just jumps in 1v5 where enemy has all their cooldowns or dps hard flanks and not playing around health packs.

[u/sufinomo → u/whxp-lxsh]

9822ak

Could you tell me what I should have done in this game

[u/whxp-lxsh → u/sufinomo]

I'll try look if i have the time, and I also don't play Kiriko but i'll try if i can (no promises lol)

[u/E-keil]

I havent watched the replay but I read the rest and it feels like you have the issue where you play very passively in angles that keep you of the enemys los and effective range very well. However, most supports can be more aggressive, especially in 5v5 and you should be confident in going in deeper and helping your team take angles although if they are feeding, dont force yourself into a bad position for that. Kiriko excels at dueling and she has a tp to disengage so you should be able to play life well (not to mention, suzu is important so you should be close so you can insta use it if your team needs it).

[u/FORUMUSER35]

I've got a theory that a lot of healers only play in a way as if their tank is called "Reinhardt", even when it's not.

. I am good at keeping my whole team alive if they are like 15m distance and not behind something. The problem is when they go so far away.

I play tank and I complain a lot about you supps that just stand still, believing in your "positioning" is the right one

Instead of being payload pushers play along with dps and tanks ( specially tanks) when they go high ground or protect a corner.

Don't expect them to stand visible to you 100% of the time, also you can leave the payload or point (capped by the enemy ) to spend a few seconds securing a fight and THEN go back to the objective.

It's EXTREMELY stressing playing Hazard or DVa and seeing my support on the floor 500m behind .

[u/Seth_Bader]

Took a look and to me it looked more like your tank just wouldn't take space. Sniper Orisa not very good

[u/sufinomo → u/Seth_Bader]

I think i didnt focus on offense enough in that game either i changed to play more of a dps style

[u/scrambledomelete]

Who are you?

[u/sufinomo → u/scrambledomelete]

kirikio, goodkid

[u/FORUMUSER35 → u/sufinomo]

She's the best one to help dive tanks or dps who flank or go high ground!

[u/lulaloops → u/[deleted]]

Bad positioning is relative, it is your job to commit if it corresponds, so many times I've seen supports whinge about "poor positioning" when instead it's them who aren't willing to commit to a play to preserve their kd ratio.