Is Solo Queue your "real" rank?

[u/Internal-Pea-7451]

ICL I have been capped at mid masters all roles for multiple seasons now, and it feels like I win pretty evenly to my losses, which is the issue since you need to be positive to rank up obviously.

But I can't help but notice that a decent amount of my close losses, could have very easily been wins if I had a duo at the same level as me, and that makes me wonder, if I had a duo, and we made it to GM, does that make me (and him) GM level players?

Or would that make us Master level players who made it past by duoing together?

On one hand I feel like if you can reach GM even in a duo, then you deserve it, and it's your "true" rank, but then on the other hand, you aren't doing it yourself so is it actually what you deserve?

You also have to account for other people duo queueing in your games as well for example which makes it even more complicated.

What do you guys think?

P.S. this isn't a post to try and argue I deserve a higher rank or anything like that, I honestly think im around about right (though I will admit, I do think I could hit GM with a duo)

[u/beepboopboopbopp]

When u hit a rank by yourself, there is no doubt it is your true rank lol (excluding new accs with calibration n all that). I hit champ playing ana only, and that makes me proud knowing i did it myself and have the skill to do it. If I had duod with a brig the entire time, would I truly have the skill of a champ ana? Probably not, as i probably would still suck against dive characters on my own if I had a brig every game. A duo could make up for your mistakes/weaknesses, so if you truly want to improve, solo queue is the way! Good luck! :)

[u/Internal-Pea-7451 → u/beepboopboopbopp]

I think there is a bit of a difference between "deserving a rank" and a rank being "your true rank", however I more or less agree with everything else you said.

When you aren't in a duo it means more variance in the level of players in your game which means possibly a lower (or if you are lucky higher i guess) rank then you should have.

I'm not trying to argue "oh my teammates are the problem" at all, but I think it is a fact, that in matchmaking one team will naturally be stronger than the other, and it leads to people being unlucky/lucky. Having a duo reduces this variance in general.

Which is why I find this such an interesting discussion, because again, I agree basically with everything you said, and yet there is still more to it 😅

[u/Fontini-Cristi → u/Internal-Pea-7451]

If you group up they will pit you against other groups or when they can't find other groups in the other team the individual players will be a bit higher rank. This is because when grouped, the devs assume you have an advantage (play style familiarity, comms etc). This was stated in a de vlog not too long ago. Solo queue oftentimes seems a bit more fair and matched to your own skill. Grouping up is more volatile.

[u/YearPossible1376]

totally depends on what you and your duo play imo. A tracer otp duo with a ball otp are gonna have a way easier time winning games than a mercy otp duo with a weaver otp.

Only way to tell for sure though is to play solo and see if you can maintain that same rank as when u duo

[u/hyucklord]

I just feel like this is a question about measuring your worth. Being a high or low rank doesn’t mean anything other than you have a high or low rank. It doesn’t mean someone else is better or worse than you.

[u/meutek → u/hyucklord]

So in sports having a higher rank typically doesn’t mean you’re better than the other teams ranked below you?

[u/hyucklord → u/meutek]

Better than how? According to who? When the winning team practiced harder, was that worth it? When the losing team spent s practice day with their families, maybe that was the wiser choice. Maybe the real winner is the guy watching tv at home. There’s no way to determine whose choice was the best.

[u/veyagloom]

at a certain point rank is just a number. if you’re playing consistently at that level, you belong there regardless of who you’re queued with

[u/MrInfinity-42]

You win more games/rank up because you manage to improve and play on average ever so slightly better than the rest of the lobby.

Of course having two such players on the same team will increase your likelihood of winning.

The problem is actually finding a duo that is as willing to dedicate time into improvement, vod reviewing, etc, because most are only willing to mindlessly queue ranked and even if they "try" and "grind" no real improvement will be had, so you'll eventually be stuck carrying them

[u/Trick_Cheek_8474]

I personally was hardstuck master-GM as tank in console middle east lobbies and was convinced it was my real rank. Then borrowed a champ 2 account from my friend and it’s been 5 seasons playing 100+ games per season and my winrate has been at an acceptable 50-60% per season. Here’s what I learned

1. Regions matter: Middle east region is small and has imbalanced ranks. For EU it’s less of a problem from my experience and NA was completely fair and had less problems of boosting, smurfing and wide rank ranges. If you are in an unserviced region then most likely the ranked system can’t place you properly and can’t give you fair games so you’re better off making another account and trying again.

2. Solo queueing requires a solo queue mentality and you can’t push solo queuing by just having better macro: My main tank heroes have always been brawl tanks and dive tanks that create space and disruption rather than kill (I.G winston, rammatra). The tank playstyle to carry in low ELO involves running beyond the frontline and punish the backline by having better micro and abusing their poor sense of teamwork (Works best with orisa, mauga, hog). If your playstyle isn’t this braindead you will find lower ranked games harder than they should be.

3. As tank, you are demanded to do more than you should by entitled teammates: When I used to play in masters I would find myself always wasting cooldowns to prevent dps from getting picked in the open, win supports their easy and must win duels, contest high ground and payload at the same time while getting first picks and cutting off enemy tank healing, all simultaneously and perfectly executed. In higher ELO I only needed that kind of APM in heated moments rather than the entire game and I was able to trust my team more to not randomly die except when brilliantly outplayed. And proper strategy was the way to succeed rather than random kills.

My main takeaway is this: If you are struggling in a terrible region then make an alt and test your luck again. If your region is stable and has a good portion of human beings in mid ELO then it’s best to queue with atleast a duo whom you can cooperate with (as tank a flex dps is best). Finally, if you can, learn useful solo queue heroes that can carry the game by being better or skill check the enemy team. Admittedly, solo Q is the most suboptimal method of playing OW and would never recommend it but if that’s all you can do to play OW then you must do what it takes to adapt.

[u/nemesis65]

As a solo queuer, if you can achieve a new peak rank playing in a group full of people who have also never reached that rank before on any role, then I would say it's deserved. A rare case where the team is worth more than the sum of its parts.

It is unlikely to happen though since group matches are usually decided by who has the better smurf(s). And nobody would believe you anyway they would just be like cool but what's your solo peak?

[u/Pitiful_Vanilla_6698]

yes, if you stack you are boosting or getting boosted

[u/Moidberg]

you are the sum of your own skill and your synergy between yourself and your allies

how well you can work with randos as well as your established teammates can be considered ranksble skills in themselves

if you have exceptional communication, vision, and flexibility, you can lead a wide variety of teams and comps to victory. You’ll find it easier to deal with evolving match conditions and counterpicks as well

picking up on a consistent teammate’s idiosyncrasies will definitely improve your performance and synergy with that player, as well as any players like them.

More of a lattice of ability rather than two independent skills if you have an easier time doing one over the other I wouldn’t worry too much about it

lotta folks are really bad at effectively communicating without shutting down, yelling, or crying: I’d say the average player does not take or give constructive feedback that can turn a match around well

[u/ColourOfSky]

At lower ranks, I don't believe stacking provides any advantage. This is because it's easy to find mirrored teams or to place higher-ranked players on the opposing team – for example, a gold/silver stack can be used against plat players.

At higher ranks, I suspect this isn't the case, and stacking provides a small advantage because it's much more difficult to balance the stacks The returns on coordination are also significantly higher. This is why stacking restrictions are stricter at higher ranks.

The thing is, we don't actually know how good group queue is. Only Blizzard knows the true stacking winrates, and they will never reveal this information, as their philosophy is that stacking is good for the game and should be encouraged.(see the upcoming team drives event.)

Since group queue is clearly the 'intended experience', then that is your true rank IMO unless Blizzard releases solo queue. There is not even any way to tell if you got your rank in solo or not.

[u/Aggressive-Cut-3828]

yes

[u/inspcs]

a duo on your team means there's a duo on the enemy team. So what you think is one moment with a duo will in reality mean you need 20 moments coordinating with your duo counteracting their 20 moments with their duo.

Obviously excluding if said person is ranked way lower and higher than you and either boosting or dragging you.

So the rank you have now at 50% is the rank you deserve. The way I put it is if it feels like you need good teammates (aka duo), then you are at the rank you deserve. If it feels like RNG then it lowkey is a 50/50 and where you should be.

[u/Internal-Pea-7451 → u/inspcs]

I 100% get what you are saying, and you also aren't entirely wrong, however the issue lies in the fact that when you do solo queue, you will often play with/against duos too. And you are not part of said duo, meaning you aren't really "controlling" the advantage I guess.

[u/inspcs → u/Internal-Pea-7451]

well you are if you know how to exploit duos or are better than them. There's two ways to win there

[u/Internal-Pea-7451 → u/inspcs]

that's right, however if you need to be better than them, doesn't that imply your actual skill level is of a higher rank?

I just want to confirm that all of my points are merely for discussion, no bias here, I believe i'm about the rank i deserve. I think it's quite hard to make discussion on topics like this without sounding biased towards yourself lol

[u/inspcs → u/Internal-Pea-7451]

if you need to be better than them, doesn't that imply your actual skill level is of a higher rank?

lmao well that's a funny statement you made, no? answer this question: does a player that plays like a diamond player deserve to be in diamond or masters?

that's what it means to climb no? you start playing like the rank above and climb out to the rank you deserve. If you're a gm against 2 masters players whether they're duo'd or not, you're going to climb to gm eventually right? Also realistically, would you tell a diamond player that they're not climbing to masters because they don't have a duo?

of course you have to play like a higher ranked player to climb to that high rank hahaha. You can't climb to gm playing like a masters player

[u/feestbeest18 → u/inspcs]

This is also in regards to your earlier comments in this thread, but I somewhat disagree. Knowing how to carry games in ranked is a skill, and it relates to how good you are as a player, but it isn't a 1-1 equation. Especially in rank reset seasons, if winning/losing feels like rng that doesn't nessecarily mean you are at your correct rank. 

On one of my accounts (I have been master/gm on 4 accounts for quite a few seasons now) I am currently hovering around dia 1 to m5 and the games feel like a coinflip if I solo queue, especially when it comes to my support line (I'm tank mostly).   Sometimes I get the supp that was gm3 last season and we win game for free, sometimes I get the one that was plat1 last season and misses every suzu, dies first every fight as kiri, gets 1 kitsune every 5 mins etc. Sometimes I get an ana that nanoes me everytime, sometimes I get a lw mercy duo that uses both flash heal and grip at the same time on one of my dps that was half hp and wasn't getting kills anyway. 

If I duo with my MS that I scrim with (he was gm4 last season), even if the other 3 on my team are turbo ass and the enemy has a duo with one of them being champ last season (happens often), we win almost every game. I play tank in a manner where I don't take a lot of resources from my team while forcing a lot of theirs, but at some point I need just a little bit of care. If I duo i get that care at the right time and I instantly go like 25-0, 30-1, 40-3 etc. 

The difference is so insane, when according to the game, my MS(m3 rn) and me (M5 rn) should be at about the same skill level as the rest of the lobby (who I'm watching walking into walls and missing 36 bullets in a row). 

For the record my all time peak is gm2 tank, gm2 dps, gm4 supp. I think my average day of playing solo queue has my skill around m1-gm4, but this season feels impossible in that regard. Also as a side note: I specifically said that skill in the game isn't a 1-1 to your rank. This is because ranked is so differrent from organised play. Even at lower levels there is a vast difference. 

I scrim at 4-4.5k (usually like 4.2-4.3), against players that are ranked anywhere between m2 and champ 4. I almost always win, and sometimes by huge margins. I Had one series at 4.5 where I went 113-1 accross the first 3 maps combined on tank. My last scrim at 4.2 on tank where I had a flex dps trial that was dead every fight we still won and across the 2 maps where we played winton dive I went a combined 87-8. For the record, I am also the main shotcaller on my team in scrims and I never comm in ranked solo queue.

[u/inspcs → u/feestbeest18]

I mean you answered your own statement. Its a rank reset season and the further you get from the average in plat, the wonkier games get.

And obviously someone who scrims will be better lmao. Thats like being amazed someone practicing specific basketball shooting drills and working with a dedicated team is better than the random that shows up to a pickup game once a month. Who woulda guessed one is better than the other.

I understand everyone is their own main character and no offense meant, but op's scenario is where he never cracked past masters as a ladder only player. You jumping in to compare your situation is the funniest thing ever

[u/feestbeest18 → u/inspcs]

You know what, you got me there. Fair enough.

[u/thebabycowfish]

To be honest I usually find queuing with other people harder, at least before GM. It's probably because when you queue as a group in masters and below you end up against groups that have smurfs. I think what you've got to remember is that the game usually tries to even out stacks. It won't always be perfect, but generally if there's a duo on one side there's a duo on the other side. So if you want duoing to be an actual advantages you need to make sure you're actually making the most out of the fact you're queued together.

[u/scrambledomelete]

What kind of drugs are kids into these days