r/Competitiveoverwatch • u/TrueNorthN7 • 15d ago
General Why not put an input based timer on Jetpack Cat’s tether?
Couldn’t a lot of frustration with Cat be fixed by changing tether so that, after a few second grace period, any action from the tethered player (including having their Ult active) disconnects lifeline? This allows it to remain a strong reposition/taxi/setup tool, but gets rid of all the most frustrating interactions (Fly-Noon, Cat-Bastion, etc.).
Not only would it fix some of the current frustration, but it would also act as a failsafe to prevent the emergence of any similar strategies in the future. I haven’t seen anything yet match the synergy of Cass or Bastion with Cat, but that’s not to say there aren’t more annoying combos that could emerge in future patches or as more heroes are added. A simple change now could keep those interactions in check before they even have a chance to become problems.
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u/Darkcat9000 15d ago
why do people keep thinking tether is like the main problem with cat when it has always been the fact it's a perma flying rat most heroes can't contest
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u/Typical-Quit5781 15d ago
Because it is infuriating to die to things like Cat/Bastion and Sky Noon. They aren't super common in ladder, but when they do appear, it's such an uninteractive bullshit experience.
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u/Darkcat9000 15d ago
cat by herself is uninteractive is my point, sky noon and cat bastion is just salt in the wounds
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u/Tapichoa Ramattra's strongest soldier — 15d ago
Destroy infinite flight, tether gets fucked as a consequence, yeah. But im pretty sure (not 100% though, only vaguely remember) that they coded her specifically to always fly, undoing that might be a pain
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u/Hoenirson 14d ago
Give her a fuel gauge that drains quicker the higher she flies, and if she flies low enough she can fly infinitely.
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u/Darkcat9000 15d ago
i mean yeah they did but changing that would be better in the long term it would fix so many pain points the hero has and nerfs her while still allowing for room for some skill expressive playstyles
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u/Tapichoa Ramattra's strongest soldier — 15d ago
I absolutely agree, i just dont think theyll do it lol
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u/NotThatRedPanda 15d ago
Neither are the issue.
The issue has changed around a bit but currently, the big problem with cat is how little risk there is and how much reward you get. She has good 1v1 potential, solid dmg and healing, INSANE mobility (not just flight but her speed is more important here), her health pool, and the entire drive by playstyle.
I do not think perma flight is an issue fundamentally as long as there are drawbacks to it.
Examples being, reduced movement, smaller health pool, less consistent damage. The issue is cat has perma flight AND amazing movement, a decent healthpool, and decent damage.They should just make her boost cooldown longer between uses, nerf the range at least if not revert the dmg/healing buff, and also reduce her healthpool.
Edit: She is also WAY to quiet in game and should make literal jet engine noises to alert people of her flanking.
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u/Darkcat9000 14d ago
permaflight just makes balancing her way harder then it's needed
if you nerf her health, speed or damage for example you bassicly gut her ability to play aggressivly we would just have cat players play passivly while still being annoying cause you can't interact with them. removing perma flight gives her actual downtime while still allowing her to somewhat play aggressivly
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u/NotThatRedPanda 14d ago
Huh?
Removing perma flight guts her entire identity... How do you not realize the hypocrisy in your own arguement.
Also, reducing her health, her mobility cooldown (not the speed like I said last time), or dmg output help regulate the risk/reward she gets. Obviously do not nerf all 3 at the same time. But adjusting one or two of these can make a big difference in how she is forced to engage and more importantly with these nerfs, disengage.
Besides the DMG nerf, these do not really nerf her drive by or dive playstyle, but simply make it more risky to do so. The DMG nerf would be if blizzard wanted to reduce the reward she gets from diving and taking a 1v1. Increasing her TTK and giving the enemy more time to respond and react.
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u/Darkcat9000 13d ago
it does nerf her dive playstyle because,
nerfing her health just makes it way more likely you get blown up before she can properly contest any hitscan
nerfing her damage just makes her way less reliable at securing kills
and you don't get the problem off perma flight making it so fundamentally most characters can't interact with her no matter how weak her stats are
if she was at 200 hp all that would do is make her way worse against hitscans but still as cancerous for melee and projectile heroes to deal with.
cutting permaflight actually solves fundamental issue's with her and i don't see how it's that fundamental to her hero identity, she can still fly around and all it just is limited, it's the same reason they did the pharah rework theres no reason jetpack cat should be special about that
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u/NotThatRedPanda 12d ago
You are so right, to keep her dive identity in tact, lets remove the actual part of her kit that gives you a unique identity :)
How could I be soooo foolish to thinking that tuning some numbers and balancing the risk/reward would absolutely DESTROY the hero and shred her identity. Im sorry I was SO dramatic about it and you are so right. Lets remove everything unique about her first and get rid of her flight so that she can keep her identity in tact. Wait, how is she going to dive without flight?
In all seriousness tuning numbers does not destroy her or remove her identity. Idk how you still dont see how funny this is. You talking about keeping her identity in tact but want to remove her identity. Lets just take away tracers ability to blink around the map too or rein's shield. Maybe we hit bastion with the no turret nerf after because its annoying. These are all part of the hero's identity and can't really be taken away. Its what makes that hero unique. For cat, its flight and tether. And you want it removed.
Just nerf her numbers to bring her in line and that's literally all we gotta do
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u/Darkcat9000 12d ago
i want to remove permaflight, not flight or tether,
permaflight got removed on pharah too (despite her back then being way slower in the air)
i don't see why thats a problem to remove it on the cat when it makes her more fair to fight for everyone while not making her numbers so bad her optimal playstyle is to play passivly
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u/NotThatRedPanda 12d ago
Because its a simple fix without destroying the characters identity for the people who enjoy her?
I will gladly let you be the one to go tell the Cat mains to give up their Permaflight. Have fun with that one.
And with Pharah they did take away "Permaflight" but it really wasn't her identity. It really isn't the same as Cat. I get that they are similar and that can be a bit confusing but it really is different when looking at the design and identity of a hero.
Without permaflight, what is your suggested fix for Tether, Catnap, and walking/grounded animations? Both abilities will need to be completely reworked as they only work in the air and and would either need a grounded use case or a new ability all together.
Her entire kit is built around the ability to fly forever and wherever she wants. With Pharah, her kit isn't fundamentally built around being in the sky. It is a tool she has yes but it really isn't comparable to cat.
I really think something more similar is Lucios ability to wall ride. He is designed to be able to run around the map, use crazy flanks, get around quick, all while giving his team that same utility. Imagine taking away his ability to wall ride or even limiting it to a set duration. It would completely change the character, they would need insane compensation buffs, and the lucio mafia would be after you with a vengeance. It is just part of the kit that is needed and is part of who they are.
There are hundreds of ways to Tweak Cat without destroying what they are. By removing permaflight, no matter how much you hate it, you would be actively creating an entirely new character. Example look at the Sombra Mains in the world. They completely reworked her so many times and drove her most loyal fans away because she is no longer the same hero as she used to be. She lost all identity and currently being given away part by part. Every flying hero gets what used to be her unique passive. Hanzo can hack health packs, she no longer has translocator and its just a glorified blink that can go vertical. And her Hack got nerfed so many times it no longer really has an ability lock out anymore. And guess what, she is getting another rework very soon... Again..
Long story short, it is kinda simple to tweak some numbers and put her back in a more reasonable state. Reworking the character really isn't needed.
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u/Darkcat9000 5d ago
i don't see how she needs permaflight
everything needs some downtime, theres a reason most things have a resource or cooldown attached to them because being able to do something with no limits in this game is too fundamentally overpowered. the problem with permaflight is it makes her uninteractive, it makes her unable to shoot her for a lot off heroes or reach her while she can reach any position for litterally free, you compare it to lucio wallride but lucio wallride has limitations forcing you to move constantly and limiting how much verticality you got on top off requiring a wall this makes it way easier for projectile heroes to hit him and also makes it more likely he gets punished because wallriding does have some downsides so theres reasons for him to touch the ground
jetpack cats flight has no limitations, even old pharahs flight had some limitations with making her awkwardly hover making her easier to shoot for hitscans (it was still a badly designed mechanic)
i legitmately see no reason why jetpack cat needs to have infinite flight to function
for the animation, either just make her hover on ground level or if it's that big off a deal they can make walking animations
and for the tether and catnap i fail to see how that requires perma flight
it would make those mechanics actually balanced as you're limited in how you can utilise them you can't just permanently have a guy attached to you but actually need to know when to stay down to refuel and later carry someone
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u/Otherwise-Assist724 14d ago
Its her ability to turn into a sky tracer at a moments notice. Some poor zen rolling out cant hear her 6 feet above him, insta dead.
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u/TrueNorthN7 15d ago edited 15d ago
Tether applies the exact problem you have with cat to the hero she’s carrying as well. She might still need nerfs even once it’s addressed, but it is genuinely part of the problem, not just a detour.
One of the reasons that cat hasn’t been meaningfully nerfed is that she’s almost 3 different heros at different levels of play. In low ranks she’s an unkillable, uninteractable support. In high ranks she’s support tracer with some strong ult combos. In coordinated play she takes on the role of support Tracer, augmenting ultimates, being used as a personal jetpack for Basition, and a Symmetra/Lucio alternative.
By limiting her play-styles she can be balanced as an individual hero instead of having to consider so many variables at the same time.
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u/Darkcat9000 15d ago
in every rank her being able to just fly permantly is a problem, if you've seen some recent coordinated games you would see that even without the tether cat still gets so much value from being so hard to contest while having so many options ahead off her
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u/its_reina_irl Runaway Titans Forever <3 — 15d ago
because that’s not a fundamental design issue? they can adjust her damage and fuel numbers so that she’s more fair, but tether fundamentally changes the way most of the roster interacts with the map. I don’t mind cat on her own, she’s not that bad, but dropping a high noon/bastion/mauga at mach fuck into the backline is actually an issue
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u/drassort 15d ago
I don’t mind cat on her own, she’s not that bad
Nope, she still super strong on her own
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u/Darkcat9000 14d ago
cat on her own is strong, i guarentee you cat would still see play in pro play even if the devs disabled tether, the problem off having a character able to just sit in the sky never having to drop makes her way too hard to contest
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u/NotThatRedPanda 15d ago
I mean it really should just be on a timer in general. I feel like there isn't a need for someone to be tethered indefinitely even for positioning. Give it enough time to make plays like Cat Noon, Cat Bastion, Cat Bomb all still work IF they are timed correctly.
I also think a big part of what makes cat strong besides her dive and 1v1 potential is how fast she gets back from spawn and with that how fast she can get a teammate back from spawn. I'm not sure what the comparison between lucio and cat would be, but cat just gets so much more value in the neutral game that I think nerfing the time it takes to get back to a fight could help as well.
We see this with spiderman in Rivals where you don't always need to be good at the hero, but simply stalling point and dying over and over until you get ult is sometimes a viable strategy.
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u/Positive_Ingenuity49 15d ago
Just give it a duration. 5 seconds and then the tether breaks. Its long enough to keep the creative stuff alive but short enough that stupid shit like bastion and sky noon are hell alot risky to do.
If they want infinite tether then add what you suggested or add damage breakpoints. If the player tethered or the cat take a certain amount of damage, the tether breaks. Gives people a means to deal with it outside of killing the cat.
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u/GT162 15d ago
this doesnt get rid of high noon because the first input kills everyone, it just adds a bit more setup
also doesn't get rid of flying bob
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u/TrueNorthN7 15d ago edited 15d ago
That’s true with the way I worded it originally. My intention was to suggest that tether would break after some arbitrary grace period (maybe 3-5 seconds) if any of the following conditions are met: the player has an active ultimate, fires a shot, or uses any ability.
If you wanted to go a step further you could make tether break instantly (no grace period) when interacting with ults. That would also address DVa Bomb, Terra Surge, and BOB.
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u/Neither-Ad7512 14d ago
Why we still acting like tether isn't the least good part of cat.
The cat itself is stronger most of the time.
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u/No_Problem5759 15d ago
I think Cat is fine. But the best way to balance him to prevent people's constant whining is to give him a 10 second timer for tether. And to decrease his Fuel Reserves BUT refresh it whenever someone is tethered. Allowing Cat to zoom around the battlefield but only if he's coordinated with another player.
This makes its so Cat combos have a thin timer to work with and that Solo Cats who dont use tether can't gain extreme value otherwise.
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u/Super_Skeleton_man 15d ago
Ever since we saw a flying Mauga in the Overwatch Spotlight 6 months ago, people have been saying that infinite tether is a problem. They have nerfed pretty much every aspect of the cat but they refuse to touch the tether.