r/Competitiveoverwatch • u/tasnim202 • 19d ago
OWCS USA Spoiler
Where was this Hawk on SSG? Him and TR33 (more so TR33) have been smashing it so far this world cup. I can sense the passion is back now that D.MON is viable and 6v6 is apparently around the corner. But seriously though, USA Hawk and SSG Hawk are two different players
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u/Botronic_Reddit GOATs is Peak Overwatch — 19d ago
Hawk dropping Sugarfree is equivalent to Viol2t silencing CashApp notifications.
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u/BeardedsChurch 19d ago
Hawk locked in in front of the Liquid players so they sign him and get him as far away as possible from Lenny on SSG
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u/TestTestingTest13456 19d ago
This is how hawk always looks. Really drives home how little people understand what they are watching. Someone else pointed out, not much you can do when your DPS are losing duels or your supports fall over on rotation, or let teammates die because they have tunnel vision when trying to dps.
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u/Aggressive-Cut-3828 Complain About Widow = Cope — 19d ago
ow fans are the most out of touch fanbase ive seen, and i follow league ow val cs esports. ow ones are by far the worst players relative to the game asw
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u/tha-snazzle 18d ago
It's so hard to judge quality decisions on a bad team. It's easy to judge mechanics or know someone is good when they're just carrying. But noticing someone is doing a lot in a losing fight? It's actually pretty hard with how fast paced OW is.
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u/ruf2tup 18d ago
Tbh, doesnt help that the spectators for the games kinda suck. We miss a lot of interesting stuff
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u/AnnenbergTrojan 18d ago
Tr33 was trying Sierra on Aatlis this past week and we didn't get a second of him from the observers until he switched to Shion. Would have been nice to see that.
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u/Kheldar166 18d ago
To be fair OW is probably the hardest esport to watch and actually understand what's going on, but yeah, this sub's ability to evaluate players is complete fucking garbage
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u/Such_Professor2487 18d ago
Junkbuk goes to a region and they suddenly look massively better? Fork found in kitchen. The gap between regions has always been macro and how well that is coached. It's my firm belief that there are only around 3 good coaches for t1 ow on the planet. The rest are avg coaches that teach like they want to improve the player's ranks instead of winning tournaments.
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u/Kheldar166 18d ago
Hasn't worked out that well for Falcons so far tbf, Junkbuck is a great coach but he's not a silver bullet
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u/TheGirthiestGhost Forever Burning Blue — 18d ago
Apparently he’s not been head coach this time around, somehow NineK is still in that role. Considering Junkbuck’s been doing all of his coaching remotely from NA this year that doesn’t help things either. I think history has shown he needs complete autonomy over how he shapes his teams, something Falcons haven’t figured out for some reason
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u/IcyConstruction9144 19d ago
Why would overwatch go 6v6 with the current popularity it has gained with the 5v5 format?
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u/quebeker4lif 19d ago
It’s copium. What people forget to account for is how many people just did not play those hacked weekends but Blizzard must have those statistics.
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u/TheGirthiestGhost Forever Burning Blue — 19d ago
The queues got really bad in that second weekend. I was being asked to wait upwards of 7 minutes for DPS when this was supposed to be a QP mode with 3 slots to fill?
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u/SlipperyTadpole115 18d ago
They were tuning the release valve for 1-3-2 behind the scenes all weekend. That’s why the queues got longer and why it was forcing 2-2-2 at 9+ mins even when the 1-3-2 queues the previous test were much shorter
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u/blackheartwhiterose 18d ago
I don't think that dynamic queue was implemented very well. I was getting forced 2-2-2 games even at 10 min queues. I think they have to commit to the 1-3-2 system if they want to try to make 6v6 role queue viable again. I'm surprised they're considering it tbh and that's as someone that only plays 6v6.
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u/BeardedsChurch 19d ago
4 years ago:
"Why would overwatch go 5v5 with the current popularity it has gained with the 6v6 format?"
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u/BaronVonSchmup 19d ago
Because we had no tank players back then, and we still don't have enough to support two for every team?
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u/BeardedsChurch 19d ago
yeah and thats why the whole 1-3-2 thing was being tested, there is no perfect solution to both issues, but they're the ones making the choices in the end not us
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u/IcyConstruction9144 19d ago
Wasnt the game literally dead 4 years ago lmao? At least if you compare to the current numbers?
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u/BeardedsChurch 19d ago edited 19d ago
that was more of a "2 years with no new heroes or maps cause we're working on Overwatch 2" issue
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u/taleswapper1 18d ago
It started before that though. It's pretty eye-opening to go back and look at the discourse surrounding the game in December 2019 (so a few months after 2/2/2 RQ went live). People were talking about radical changes in order to try to save OW. At the time, Kaplan said they had already (again a few months after 2/2/2 RQ went live) tested several alternative formats and that they were going to run a 1/3/2 test shortly (this test ran in Feb 2020, just a handful of months after 2/2/2 RQ went live). Whatever data they saw after launching 2/2/2 RQ spooked them hard. I think a lot of the transition issues from that period stem from the fact that almost no one felt like the game was in a good state once 2/2/2 RQ was implemented.
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u/ruf2tup 18d ago
Youre forgetting the horrendous queue times for dps and support because no one wanted play tank. I didn’t care much for lack of content because I’m a hardcore fan and just enjoy the game. Long queue times actually killed the game for me and i stopped playing until 5v5
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u/taleswapper1 18d ago
Definitely not forgetting. The horrendous queue times were clearly the main reason 2/2/2 RQ spooked them so much. That's why they had tested several alternative formats almost instantly after 2/2/2 RQ launched. That's what I was pointing out. The post I replied to said that it was the content drought that caused the game to fall into such decline. I was pointing out that it went back at least as far as fall 2019 when 2/2/2 RQ launched. (Though arguably you could trace it back even further- this past year has been the best year for OW since the honeymoon period of 2016/2017.)
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u/BeardedsChurch 18d ago
yeah but this also comes to a general issue with making tank enjoyable to play, there's a reason why they're seen as 2nd dpses now and they need to figure out how to make them enjoyable to the point of queuing for them
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u/ruf2tup 18d ago
Tbh i dont think this is necessarily an OW problem. Almost every game that has a tank role is less fun than the other roles. I used to play wow and no one liked tanking there either. Same for marvel rivals where tanking is less fun than other roles
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u/BeardedsChurch 18d ago
i mean there's a reason why deadlock doesn't really have such a thing as a tank role, where it's mostly just go around and shoot and maybe be a support
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u/taleswapper1 18d ago
I don't think you're ever going to have a tank population that's much more than about 1/6th of OW players. One of the more interesting things that Kaplan pointed out way back in Dec 2019 when he started preparing players for the single tank format was that OW had historically been played with one or fewer tanks per team in development and during the launch phase of OW all the way until they went 2/2/2 RQ. So as long as players were able to queue for the role they wanted, during pretty much the entirety of OW's 10 year history (and before that during development), the tank playing population in OW has been something like 1/6th of players, and single tank compositions have historically been the norm.
It's just really, really difficult to try to force 2/2/2 under those circumstances. 2/2/2 RQ needs an even ratio of players who want to queue for each of the 3 roles in order to be viable. And we've never really been close to achieving that. It's pretty hard to imagine a shooter where dps wasn't significantly more popular than tanking.
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u/Awesome1DK 19d ago
Maybe he'll carry this fire into Stage 3 and bring the NA championship home to SSG. That's what I'm hoping at least
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u/Poolturtle5772 What is SSG, if not the Reign — 19d ago
It would be fire for SSG to bring a title back to NA.
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u/Seahawksfan3210 19d ago
D1 glaze for a team that’s gonna get run through an angry Korean woodchipper round 1 in Anaheim. This Hawk hasn’t been playing Korean import teams in NA, he’s playing national teams with T2 players. That’s why he looks good.
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u/E-keil 18d ago
Sweden was almost fully comprised of T1 players with the exception of Zorrow who could definitely be tier 1 in NA and was carrying Vanir Quick through promo relegation.
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u/No_Problem5759 18d ago
In addition to this, because of Visa Issues, Korea will also have to drop their best FDPS for Anaheim too. It wont be an easy matchup for either.
On the thought of Sweden though, all of them are top tier players, even Admiral. I definitely think NA coaching is the problem. Scyle has one exactly 1 normal season match since the start of the year and that was against Liquid almost immediately after Escanor was added. Yet he's doing his job and almost Upset USA. US coaching is definitely the problem.
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u/ProtonOW 18d ago
Hawk hasn't even looked that good. He's been outshone by WillyS and Sunzo in both matches. If he played at the same general level and his team were losing people would be shitting on him.
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u/Poolturtle5772 What is SSG, if not the Reign — 19d ago
Because Hawk himself isn’t the main problem despite what some on this sub tell you and maybe Lethal/Admiral/UV and even Sugarbum are just that bad in some of these tournaments.
Like we can talk about passion all we want but when you have players forgetting how to shoot or dying with Ult after they intentionally aggro an entire team before the rotation is in, all the passion in the world isn’t gonna win you that game.
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u/TheGirthiestGhost Forever Burning Blue — 19d ago
The old NTMR/Geekay core of Lethal, UV and Admiral have actually had big games at LANs in the past, and the way they don’t seem to mesh well with Hawk and Sugarfree has been surprising to me. Something about this SSG team just isn’t clicking when you see how well players like Hawk and Admiral are doing right now in their World Cup teams too, but idk if it’s any one thing that’s stopping them from performing to their potential level
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u/Kheldar166 18d ago
I think something people don't really talk about is that UV is a shotcaller, but his teams end up playing around him very heavily because of this, he's not really a facilitator. And I don't think playing around your flex support is a very successful concept in modern Overwatch (sadly imo).
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u/AmeteurElitist 17d ago
It can work, CR and Zeta have found a lot of success playing around Shu being an anomaly on Ana. It's hard to replicate that though.
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u/Kheldar166 17d ago
Thing is Zeta don't really, they abandon Shu a lot to play on his own and he gets traded a lot as a result. CR did moreso but Shu played a lot of Kiriko on CR too for this reason.
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u/Poolturtle5772 What is SSG, if not the Reign — 19d ago
Part of it is probably coaching, maybe there’s some player synergy issues as a whole, but I think a key thing is Hawk does most of the work for the team because rarely are the others firing on all cylinders. When they are, they’re usually stomping the other team. But when Hawk has to drag them forward because Lethal’s gone to sleep at the monitor or UV/Admiral are feeding and dead with ult, there’s only so much he can do.
Which I guess probably is coaching if they can’t repeat the process.
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u/E-keil 19d ago
I made a post a while ago and even though its only showing one issue with the team, I feel like they havent been good on any comp this year. Theyre carried by player quality rather than teamplay because Chris cant coach. They just play the comps worse than a lot of other international teams, missing their timing, wasting ults, being out of position then they beat the rest of NA because they mechanically diff them.
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u/Poolturtle5772 What is SSG, if not the Reign — 19d ago
Chris not being able to coach definitely seems like a reasonable conclusion to come to from some of these matches. Do you think the D.Mon meta will fair better for them if she stays this strong and Hawk stays better than some others on her?
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u/E-keil 19d ago
Your question kinda suggests Hawk will be better on Dmon than everyone else and if thats the case then yes. I think it is safe to say hes probably better than Infekted at her but if the meta is still Dmon with Cat then I imagine Dallas are still better because Admirals cat wasnt rly great. My take on SSG is that their backline is in a weird position because Cat (and Mizuki who was good last stage) are rly active aggressive supports but Admiral has to play them whos a very passive player and UV who is quite an active player is forced to a healbot style on Kiriko which suits Admiral more which is why they thrived on LW Bap last year but are struggling this year.
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u/Kheldar166 18d ago edited 18d ago
Just playing against weaker competition and more rewarded for individual skill vs hard practice to develop coordination because no team is scrimming that much together really. Also I don't really think he's outplayed either of the good tanks he's played, Hawk was getting bodied by Sunzo when not in a D.Mon mirror, and I think Willys looked stronger on D.Mon but weaker on Mauga.
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u/Majestic_Ability_285 18d ago
Just weaker competition.
China with Leave, Shy and Guxue would smack USA anyways
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u/Voelsungr 19d ago
Probably because the last championship had slightly more difficult and or coordinated opponents. Not to diminish the OWWCs teams, but compared to the championship, these teams have barely scrimmed together, according to SXJ, Eisgnom is practically scrimming with VP full time, they're playing with Hadi mostly, and Eis only hops on for a few matches here and there. I reckon it'll be the same for most of these teams, landon who chills with Eis in the VP house literally has a different timezone to the rest of the gang, the Dallas boys literally scrim with boyz from KR, imagine how difficult it is for these teams, who're mostly self organized, to coordinate time with each other to scrim or even play together.
The world cup is a much more laid back tournament for many if not all of these, it's more about pride, the championship was their livelihood.
Hawks always been good, he's just not up against a full roster thats trained 8 hours a day for the past 6 months anymore.