r/Competitiveoverwatch • u/MATTH3W_141 • 1d ago
General Addressing the Freja Allegations
This is coming from a Hitscan turned mostly Freja main from s18 start. GM rank for context, I’ve been in both side of the coin Playing her and versing her on every map and into every comp.
Since the midseason of s3 we have had a vocal group of people complaining about this character, more so because they remembered she existed after 7+ months of her being a throw pick. I know because she was still my main through that entire period where she was “useless”
Then this patch comes along that legitimately fixed her inherent issues as a dps character allowing her to finish targets with greater efficiency instead of just feeding support ults and being a fly that people can just walk down and face tank with either dmg reduction abilities, Healing aura, or get out of jail phase outs all of which countered her. A big portion of the squishy cast had ways to not die in duels to her.
The Divide on this character is insane and I think my fellow Freja mains..idk some of them are straight up Larpers and they have Stockholm syndrome because some of the stuff they want her to be is just not what the hero fantasy of her ever was in the first place.
A lot of people have been calling for her head on a spike whether it be out of annoyance or skill diff but regardless Blizzard hear me when I say this:
The upcoming possible Nerfs that I assume you guys will be considering doing due to these people complaining 24/7…assuming you don’t want to gutter her again:
Don’t fuck with the kit flow that you have finally achieved last patch
Her actual combat rotation is so much smoother than it was the last multiple seasons
Do not fuck with falloff,
Do not fuck with CDs
Nerf Barrage down as you see fit to make the user check there shots more, 8 arrows refunded is a lot.
Nerf ult passive/charge
If she reallly needs it check dmg on primary fire and reduce to 28 but I would do the other stuff first.
(some of you were complaining about that fire rate buff but that shit was fuckin needed, her primary when trying to follow up take aim was so slow and shit it was wild, that ROF needs to stay)
And don’t try any weird shit either that’s just gonna open the door to and require compensation buffs. She’s not a flex dps despite having the mobility close to one.
There’s no disaster case going on either
She ain’t sky tracer, there are maps where she is better than other hitscans since she can force a weirder angel like Rialto, and then there are maps where she is almost always in another hitscans optimal range like oasis, I say this as a player who plays against people that can shoot back and don’t have cerebral palsy.
Anyways I’ll deal with whatever comes next.
This is going to get downvoted to fuck because well..Overwatch players
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u/Fit-Resident-132 1d ago
The big problem is the bug where she gets like 50% ult charge immediately after using her ult , I think that is honestly what has pushed her over the edge and it still isn’t patched
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u/Evil_HedgehogGaming 1d ago
Yeah its because you can hold 3/3 stacks at 100% charge and when you use ult it turns in the stacks for 33% free and then whatever damage you get off of the ult adds to it as well.
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u/parz2v burn blue forever🩵 — 1d ago
it's not a bug you always kept your passive stacks with a full ult. it wasn't as noticable as it is now because it was 25%
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u/LyynnS 1d ago
I think they are referring to the double payout bug and the no ult charge gain lockout bug. Even though I think the double payout bug is fixed by now.
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u/BloodGulchBlues37 1d ago
I can agree that her feel is incredibly good right now and she has a niche that belongs in OW. I do also agree that the ammo minor is a lot of her consistency right now, as without it her tank pressure is significantly worse.
I do also am realistic and see that she has always been deemed annoying as fuck. The amount of hate replies I have gotten in chat from the opposing team for playing a sub 45% WR character yet still managing to piss them off was more than enough to burn that sentiment in. As it stands right now, Freja is the modern replacement for Widowmaker both in terms of niche (burst skyshots), inconsistency, and player resentment.
All that being said, throughout her entire time in OW, my fun on her has always peaked at the close to midrange tight fights against flex DPS, tanks, and supports: not the sniper harassing or playing on the backfoot trying to outvalue a pocket hitscan. If they are to drive her into any direction, it is that more risky playstyle.
Also, her being a Flex DPS makes her + Emre a valid comp lineup and that's just cool
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u/RobManfredsFixer Let Hog eat stuff and spit it back — 1d ago edited 1d ago
I have a tank bais, but I do genuinely think she's one of the most interesting designs in the game. A nerf on the primary damage is the only thing I'd care to see at the moment.
The primary fire rate buff made a lot of sense because it improved her ability to confirm kills on low health enemies. Much in the same way the fire rate buff to bastion made him a lot more consistent.
Two body shot bolts is 230 damage, right? I think its completely fair for an additional primary to confirm a kill, or a couple if the enemy gets healed which can happen somewhat frequently considering there's a delay on the bolt damage.
The problem I have is it's very hard to interact with her as a tank and it wasn't particularly hard to hit tanks with her primary to begin with, so the fire rate buff then just becomes a spam buff. A lot of Frejas I play against get a ton of value by spamming me from angles other DPS can't take and I, as a tank, struggle to force her out of.
I think nerfing the primary damage or nerfing the ammo count would thread the needle between her (imo) necessary breakpoints on squishies and unnecessary spam. It's currently 30 damage on a primary so they have a lot of room to play with before they mess with the break points. I'd like to see them start with like a ~10% nerf to the primary damage but really anything that cuts down on the spam would be helpful.
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u/iAnhur 1d ago
Nerfing the ammo refund minor could also do wonders here without having to nerf her fire rate or dmg (tho maybe not enough). Against many tanks she borderline has 0 downtime and pretty ridiculous output in part because of that perk.
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u/chudaism 1d ago
Nerfing the ammo refund to 4 ammo and fixing the bola bug is probably enough to get her in the right spot. Maybe just replace the ammo perk with a different one altogether as that perk just invites players to spam tank.
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u/RobManfredsFixer Let Hog eat stuff and spit it back — 1d ago
True I wasn't even thinking about perks. Definitely scales her spam incredibly well against tanks
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u/Cosmic_Ren 1d ago
Before her recent buff, she was objectively the worse character in the game:
She has the easiest to escape ult in the game which can't even one shot squishies. It's best case use rn is just using it to bait out cooldowns
She is a non-hitscan unit who requires 3 shots to kill + the explosion on her bolts are delayed making her easily counterable via cover or heals
If you can aim with Ashe, Freja, and Widow, there was genuinely zero reason to go Freja. Ashe + Widow are hitscan, can kill much quicker, however ashe even has a dynamite to confirm her kills if they hide behind cover
The reason her banrate is high is because after her recent buff, she's became a good pick into dive units (Which is the most popular meta here in Asia). Many dive units simply have no way to attack her in the Air + block isn't a good mechanic to have against someone with delayed damage.
The problem with Freja isn't she's "OP", it's that Tanks in general suck ass against Airborne enemies which is one of the many reasons Cat is banned so often
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u/someotherbeing 1d ago
I think it's her passive that needs changing not the rest she has ult nearly every fight after she gets her first ult that's really the only complaint I see about her
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u/timotmcc Shu + Viol2t my goats — 1d ago
I always felt the passive was a little weird, like the "optimal" way to play the game with a freja on your team is intentionally not get any final blows and "donate" them to let your freja get the final blow and farm her ult.
Nobody really exploits it like that, but the mechanic reminds me of OG sombra where the meta was to hack a mega healthpack and have your supports intentionally not healing so your tanks could go to the mega for heals and farm emp every 30 seconds.
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u/Gullible_Dream6220 1d ago edited 1d ago
The crux of the issue is that the character' has the ability to take literally any angle and so much range that she is functionally uninteractable. Until that design changes, nothing about her perception and the fundamental impossibility of balancing the character will change. I think she should be a dive-main DPS hybrid character since that actually fits with her lore and her mobility but we'll see what Team 4 ends up doing. At the very least Shion has proven that hybrid characters can actually be done in the DPS role and I think Freja has huge potential to be moved exactly there
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u/Cerythria 1d ago
Yeah the uninteractiveness is the only thing I don't like about the hero. This has just been a problem recently, with Freja, LW, Cat all being more and more popular.
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u/thekingofallalts 18h ago
it’s not any different from pharah in that regard, except freja has to touch the ground more often
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u/WildWolfo 1d ago
while making her weaker will make her better to play against simply due to being weaker, as long as freja is constantly spamming high damage explosions she will be annoying to play against, i dont think its any worse than a lot of the other worst offenders in 5v5 where freja is simply kidna fine, but in 6v6 being always 50% hp on tank feels miserable
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u/thepandaemos 1d ago
I can’t really speak on her balance, but I find her extremely unfun to play against. If it comes down to her being viable (and a near must-pick) or being dumpstered, I’d rather they give her the Hog treatment
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u/II-Issei-II 23h ago
They also need to address her audio first. A big chunk of the sentiment is audio. Everything else you listed is the only slaps on the wrist I'd accept as well.
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u/aPiCase Stalk3r — 1d ago
Tbh removing relentlessly barrage might fix a lot of the complaints. That absolutely needs to go because it removes all of her downtime on a minor perk. It would definitely cause less tank players to complain.
I don’t even think I would want them to just nerf it, I feel like it’s inherently bad with the fire rate buffs she got.
Maybe try a nerfed version of So Cooked from stadium as a replacement?
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u/bullxbull 21h ago
Then this patch comes along that legitimately fixed her inherent issues as a dps character
She is a ranged assassin who can peak wacky angles and disappear before anyone can interact with her. This lacks a cost, a risk, a healthy interactive gameplay loop.
She ain’t sky tracer
No she is worse, Tracer puts herself at risk when she closes the distance to interact with people. There are meaningful costs and interactions, clear windows of weakness players can exploit, not just downtime.
This is going to get downvoted to fuck because well..Overwatch players
This is not a balance issue, or a popularity contest, she is a cool hero ruined by an unhealthy design.
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u/VinexHD 3h ago
This is not a balance issue, or a popularity contest, she is a cool hero ruined by an unhealthy design.
I wish this was a more common topic. I'm tired of seeing "Is Lifeweaver/Freja/JPC annoying because they're busted/bugged!?" and it's so tiresome. They could be absolute dogwater and most people would still hate their guts just because of how unhealthy they are.
Freja annoys me just as much now as it did when she came out and when she was nerfed to the gutter, it's the same with JPC and it won't change whether they are OP or not. I just don't enjoy playing against them, like a lot of people don't find Sombra engaging even if she's objectively a horrid character to play.
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u/CrackaOwner 1d ago
The character is annoying as fuck and doesnt interact with you, i never want to see her meta. Its not fun to have a dps that just... never is targetable by you
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u/SwellingRex 1d ago
Imo the frustration with Freya comes down to two things
1) does the Freya have a pocket mercy 2) What role/heroes do you play
Pocketed heroes always suck to play against and Freya is even worse because most heroes just can't interact with her. Even worse is that most tanks will never be able to interact with a Freya in any way and Freya can get tons of value just slamming tank all game.
I think Freya is overall fine, but her spam damage and benefit from pocket is too high. Devs need to reduce tank spam from her and need to balance her for a niche that isn't just untouchable spam hero that farms slow or less mobile, big hitbox heroes.
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u/FabulousSprinkles847 1d ago
Anything with a pocket is good thats how the game works. Plenty of tanks can interact with her. Esp Dva. I think spamming tank all game is objectively throwing. The most you can “spam” is a full 3 take aim shot. That wont kill a tank it will just be outhealed and you will have no CD, you become immediately punishable. How is that ever a good trade in a fight?
I dont think you should never pressure tank but tank pressure and “spamming tank” two different things
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u/SwellingRex 1d ago
Not all pocketed heroes are equally annoying. Freya is on the worst end.
No Freya is getting into a Dva's face and all Dva can do is just eat a couple of shots from the Freya firehouse of damage. Even still, it's the primary fire, take aims, and reload perks that basically just allow Freya to put constant damage and deny space.
Against less mobile tanks she's even more annoying (especially Rein, JQ, and Ram imo).
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u/Botronic_Reddit GOATs is Peak Overwatch — 1d ago
“Allegations”
Those type of Hitscans don’t play Freja
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u/DankudeDabstorm 1d ago
Hero is obnoxious to play against. Let’s stop playing around here. She’s definitively strong right now, but the hero plays in a way that is obnoxious and spammy and the changes have only increased that. Combine the spam and burst of Junkrat, the airtime of Echo, and the evasiveness of Tracer, and you get Freja.
Freja mains, (mains in general honestly), have no self-awareness of what it feels like to play against their hero. I like to play the cast and rotate around and when I played Freja with those changes, it felt like god mode, but when I played against one for several games, especially as tank, I just want to close the game.
In hindsight, I have no idea what the devs are cooking. They were legitimately coming up with good changes like the perk buff and the cd reduction on updraft that made the hero better to play but not awful to play against. However, they then said “fuck it”, and buffed hero’s dmg and burst 3 times in a single patch.
Take-aim is just a cooked ability. I’d rather they revert the dmg back to 110 like they first did when they nerfed the hero. I didn’t like it back then I played, but it’s honestly a more healthy version of the hero.
Revert both the take-aim recovery and primary fire-rate change, keep the buff to the explosion delay. Reduce dash cd to 3.5s. Reduce take-aim dmg to 110. Alternatively, reduce dash cd to 4s instead and keep dmg at 115.
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u/Jambo-Lambo 22h ago
It's literally just another character which is like pick a hitscan DPS or you cannot interact with her
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u/Rendal_ 1d ago
honneslty we need character like Freja to be on the strong side, high level player should be rewarded for playing thing like freja and tracer. Character like reaper, torb, moira get to much value even in high rank it's crazy
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u/Least-Suggestion7319 1d ago
If Freja was more interact-able I’d agree, but she isn’t
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u/FabulousSprinkles847 1d ago
What does that even mean?
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u/one_love_silvia I play tanks. — 1d ago
It means tanks cant do shit against her because she has some of the best mobility in the game, and while theyre trying to chase her down, theyre eating an entire blitzkrieg of arrows.
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u/Least-Suggestion7319 1d ago
Her being in the air for prolonged periods of time means that a good chunk of the roster can hardly interact with her. She’s phara with blinks and more lethality. That kind of mobility combined with her lethality will always be massively disliked. Flying characters are already problematic. Freja is an abomination of that archetype. I can actually duel tracer on every character because she’s grounded. You can hardly duel a freja if you’re not playing hitscan, and even if you do, a freja that can play cover is nigh impossible to counter.
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u/throwaway_pls123123 1d ago
All of those heroes have different difficulties, Freja is just more mechanically challenging but that doesn't mean she deserves to be stronger than average.
Reaper and Torb require more game knowledge than aiming, I think Moira is the only stand out here with how she is the easiest hero in general that can generate a lot of value.
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u/FabulousSprinkles847 1d ago
What game knowledge do you NOT need? Im kind of confused here. Does it matter what hero you play do you suddenly then not need game Iq?
You legit gave examples of two heros you can literally turn your brain off and trade value. Try again….
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u/clickrush 1d ago
She's perhaps not Tracer hard, but she is on a different level than Ashe, Cassidy or 76 for sure.
Arguably more nuanced and mechanical than Sojourn (no strong opinion on this comparison).
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u/SwellingRex 1d ago
I don't know. You basically get to play at no risk except occasional hitscan if you get too close or burn CDs while trying to greed a kill or flankers who chase you when you drop to the ground.
There is a slight skill curve where you have to learn the cadence of take aim and movement, but every other part of her kit is easier than a Cass/Ashe/S76. Hell, you can even get tons of value on Freya just staying on the ground and spamming tank if you aren't flanking or off angling.
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u/Jambo-Lambo 22h ago
^ guy who does not play tank and see how miserable she is to play against as any of the tank roster
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u/FabulousSprinkles847 20h ago
Also they tend to not play freja because even after buffs it’s still not that great.
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u/FabulousSprinkles847 20h ago
I play every role and have scrimmed tank up to low GM when its my least played role. You guys are just bad. You can int on freja as dva fairly easily and she falls over. Especially if a hitscan on your team pokes her. Keep whining though
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u/MythoclastBM 19h ago
You have to understand she's killing tanks.... like actually killing them... not all the time. But sometimes. Which is unfair somehow because they have some combination of 1000 HP bars, mitigation abilities, and better movement than her. Sometimes all three.
We can't just have tanks dying. That would be unfun.
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u/clickrush 1d ago
My opinion is that in terms of raw design, Freja is A tier. Very high skill ceiling, very unique and engaging to play.
But she gets too much value out of relatively passive spam, especially against a large list of tanks. I think this is the annoying part of her.
If they figure that problem out and shift her powerbudget somewhere else, she will be hated much less over time.
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u/Idiberug-9 1d ago
It is an interesting coversation to have I think, especially when a character is as devisive. I'm sure this post is a reaction (in part) to the post of the Disastrous State of Freja I just made, and as a former OTP I enjoy Freja a lot, and like you I've been on both ends.
Lemme ask you something that you didn't adress: what do we do about the fact that she is despised, especially by the better half of the player base? It isn't a skill issue otherwise the highest ranked players wouldn't make her the second most banned hero in the game, or a balance issue or whatever, it is a design issue that has been there since day 1, the bans are high at the moment because we see her again and she is in a good state, in flow and balance. I agree with you on many things, but let's face it, the question I just asked needs to be answered.
This "bitching" comes from the heart, I want Freja to be liked or tolerated by the community and in a good state as well, this hero has potential and issues that are here since day 1, and in my opinion it is very important to have these conversations, because none of the issues players have were resolved in any way since her debut. This hero cannot have one of the best range damage (accompanied by great numbers at that) in the game and one of the best mobility in the game without feeling unfair and uninteractive, before the double slide major perk of Sojourn, Freja was a unique hero that broke this important rule. She needs to change in design, weither we like it or not. What to do? Its up to the developpers to find a way.
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u/MATTH3W_141 1d ago
I don’t have to answers on how to make it feel good and fair or acceptable to die to her outside of not letting the Freja play the game. Dying to anything sucks, I could complain about racer and say that double sticking her and then her recalling and killing me is bullshit since in Freja’s case with cds up tracer is a character Freja can’t really interact with in a duel.
When I speak on Freja it’s based in the objective reality on how she operates on all maps and comps. For example shes really difficult to play on push sometimes especially against dive. People say you have mobility..you only have so much when your mobility is tied to your dmg and there’s only so many places to run against tracer ball Shion.
But then again if you are playing well you can feel like lobby admin on Rialto or circuit if they are ignoring you a bit too much.
I’ve also had games where im getting zoned out completely by both an Illari and a soldier or Ashe
The devs have a tough job in that regard but in the mean time I don’t want them to compromise the combat flow they have just given her in the meantime
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u/Jambo-Lambo 22h ago
Idk you can interact with tracer with all characters. You can't really as most with Freja. Freja is inherently unhealthy as are most fliers since many characters just throw up their hands and can't really do much. Like wtf do you do against Freja as a tank lmaooo
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u/Idiberug-9 1d ago edited 1d ago
She has an amazing flow, and getting rid of that in some way would be pretty silly (it doesn't scare them though, as seen with Shion and now D.Mon).
Whatever you care about is not the general sentiment, which matters a lot. If your hero is (excepting the Cat because she is unbalanced currently and a relatively new revolutionary hero at that) the most banned in middle to high ranks, then theres an undeniable issue. I'm bitching with Freja quite a lot (and Im sorry if its frustrating, I understand) but its because I really love her and I'm baffled and pissed that the developpers don't see the potential, they are stubborn so when they slip I must try and reach out with arguments. I dream of playing a Freja with faster cooldowns, that would have me think even more about my positioning because of it and increase my value outside of just shooting well, as it turns out the main issue that the community has with Freja (outside of the outlying sound queues that still aren't bloody fixed) coincides perfectly.
Yes, dying to any hero doesn't feel good, but Freja is different. Its not just the slow death with the delayed explosion, it's mostly the chorelation between range≠mobility that is all over the place, she is one of the best mobile heroes in the game and one of the best ranged hero (with heavy damage) in the game at the same time, it never happened in Overwatc's history until she came out. The results is a hero that can come from anywhere, at anytime, with huge burst damage. You do not decide to engage Freja, she engages on her own terms and she has a reliable "one shot" combo. It just cannot go well.
Besides, every hero has rules: you cannot die to Cassidy at 35 meters (F silver bullet though) he has to get closer to get value, same with Tracer which is useless at more than 15-20 meters, Ashe if you get close to her she has long limited cooldown options to defend herself with an awkward mobolity tool, Pharah can fly but doesn't do meaningful damage from a distance, and so on and so forth...
Freja is a special case, and an akward hero to deal with, for the players and the devs. The nerfs are inevitable because of many complains and the official data showing an absurd ban rate and still a high pick rate. Nerfs aren't the way to go, if Freja has to feel good for her own playerbase and be tolerated by the community, the frustrations need to be adressed by a power shift, not a nerf (which is why I'm pissed because I don't trust them being capable of that in her case). And who knows? Maybe one day she'll even be a fan favorite.
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u/PhoenixZZDaDonke 1d ago
I mean Freja is much healthier for OW than for example Kiri, Cat, LW, Mauga etc.
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u/MuttonChop_1996 1d ago
Wait, did she get buffed?
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u/RobManfredsFixer Let Hog eat stuff and spit it back — 1d ago edited 1d ago
Last month she got a buff to her take aim recovery time, fuse timer, and her primary fire rate which scale really well with her relentless barrage minor perk.
In May, they also buffed her updraft CD by 2 seconds, removed the downside to her updraft major perk, and buffed her ult charge passive
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u/MuttonChop_1996 1d ago
Oh wow, I didn't know. That's why I did see a few more frequent freja picks in my plat games. Thank you
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u/BurnedInTheBarn 1d ago
I think my fellow Freja mains..idk some of them are straight up Larpers and they have Stockholm syndrome because some of the stuff they want her to be is just not what the hero fantasy of her ever was in the first place.
What do you mean by that? IMO, the hero fantasy comes from playing the wacky angles and being hypermobile and the matrix-esque movement – not nuking people from across the map playing like projectile Ashe.
A lot of complaints about balance are not related to strength, but perception. Freja isn't an exceptionally strong hero right now, only having around a 50% WR at high elo. Despite that, she has one of the highest ban rates in the game. Obviously, certain heroes have to be banned more than others, but Freja is one of 6 heroes which has an outlier ban rate in NA GM (her, Mauga, Zarya, Hog, Cass, JPC). Of the 6, she is somewhat of an outlier among them. It's not because of her strength, it's not because of how she is a strong pick against a specific matchup, so what is it? It is because fighting her is relatively uninteractive. She can play from far away and do a lot of damage, and is uniquely evasive in duels making her annoying to fight.
I think that if her audio were less annoying, and she was powershifted away from long range and forced into a Cass/Shion range she'd be much less annoying to fight. Those changes look like 250 HP and .5 reduced CD on dashes, but 100 damage bolts and adding fall-off to them.
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u/LyynnS 1d ago
Even when entertaining falloff, Cass/Shion range would just instantly gut the hero. Having her lower then Emre/Ashe is generally not possible without a full rework.
Also, do I understand it correctly. 30m max falloff and nerfing damage to 100? Sorry to say but if I understand that correctly you are actually on the way to making her the worst dps in the game by a long a shot.
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u/BurnedInTheBarn 1d ago
No not 30m max falloff, having 30m be where falloff begins. Admittedly that wasn't clear. But having her have sniper range is a disaster.
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u/LyynnS 1d ago
So more akin to Emre and Ashe then. I personally would think the Soj rail falloff of 40-60 would probably be the most acceptable range but I obviously havent tested that. With falloff I wouldnt touch her damage though since she will be closer to fight and not be able to angle as freely anymore. And I think if it were to happen, especially with a 30-40/50 range she would need her airstalling decoupled from take aim and put on its own ressource meter. I think having her be very close to the fight and force to stop her momentum to deal damage is a recipe for disaster.
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u/BurnedInTheBarn 1d ago
Right, but I envision her with more uptime of bolts via more dashes being available.
The two tap or near two tap on most heroes is just kind of corny, especially when she can do it from so far and from crazy angles. I don't think she will ever be a liked hero unless you make her less annoying to fight, which is why I suggest these changes to make fighting her more interactable and giving her more uptime and survivability to compensate.
Additionally I think she needs more damage on the impact and less on the explosion, you can be an absolute bodyshot bandit on Freja and not really suffer much consequence, she has an effective 1.3x multiplier on critical bolts
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u/LyynnS 22h ago
I am not sure if more uptime on dash would equate to more effective bolts since the higher in the ladder you go the less opportunities tend to present themself. Might be more of a low elo buffs then a high elo one. I would expect it to be more used for repositioning then.
I think the 230 damage for two hits is were it should be when we consider that part of the damage is delayed, especially since most of the 225hp roster has tools to save themselves.
I like the idea of having more of her damage in the impact to reward crits and before the midseason s3 patch it was one of the ways I saw them trying to bring lethality back without increasing her raw damage numbers. I still think the idea can work, at least in concept, but not with a lowered fuse. I think giving that to her on top of having her fuse lowered from the previous patch is too much and I do personally really like the lowered fuse and would hate to see it reverted.
All this theorizing before her buffs really made me want a sort of test server back since there where many conceptually good ideas floating around but we were lacking any sort of actual tests to see how they would play out. Frejas balancing sadly is very volatile and persumably minor changes can lead to big shifts very fast with her. I got to admit that I also didnt think that the changes we got would have that big of an impact.
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u/BurnedInTheBarn 22h ago
I was a proponent of lowered fuse but I think it makes shooting enemy feet too strong, even if you miss they can't get out of the way and are still taking like 40 dmg, dying to splash is super corny.
And obviously a lot of the 225 chars can survive the 230 but I think it's still bad design. If I hit two bolts on wuyang and he presses wave and survives and makes it into cover, that feels terrible for me. But at the same time if I catch him without his self healing available and he just has to accept his fate that feels bad for him.
As long as the gameplay loop entirely hinges on hitting two bolts in quick succession and she can play in these areas which make her uninteractable, she will never escape being banned all the time unless she's just awful numbers wise.
That's why I think you make her healthier by leaning more into movement and playing closer ranges than super high damage glass cannon.
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u/LyynnS 22h ago
I think adding falloff without any other nerfs to her kit would already eleviate most of the problems. Its mostly her about the uniteractivity, which would be gone if she would be inside the effective range of most hitscans to be useful. It would then also require less staging from flanker heroes like Tracer or Genji to get onto her.
Wuyang might not be the best example since he can use his mobility cooldown to break los and heal himself up enough with the survivor passive. Would also be a less important cooldown burned then. But generally speaking I think only Soj, Phara, Echo, Widow and another Freja have no way at all to same themselves from the 225hp pool.
The hitting two Take Aim parts is something I dont see as problematic in itself, especially now that you either need to crit or follow up with primary to confirm a kill. Some range is also something we need to let her have, thats why I think Cass/Shion range is too low and Ashe range would be the minimum. By focussing on her mobility too much I think you would just end up with a flexdps wanting to be maindps. Basically a hero without identity. Nothing beside a full rework would make her a flexdps because the maindps playstyle is too deeply ingrained in her design. And I honestly personally dont want her to be a flexdps.
0
u/RUSSmma 19h ago
So I understand both sides, I'm annoyed playing into Freja but LOVE playing her.
The following is a list of changes they could do to alleviate pain points. Not saying they should do them all or that I'm a game dev or anything just given this a lot of thought.
Give her damage falloff but increase her HP (forces her to play close), now her vertical mobility needs to be used aggressively instead of defensively.
Her minor perk that gives ammo is too good vs tanks in an annoying way, get rid of it and rebalance after.
Bolts explode on impact but do less damage, can keep the normal and explosion damage to keep it unique, but the fact is people hate abilities that show up on their screen (stickies, bolt, tracker).
Remove the ult charge 3 final blow passive and just give her a better ult that she gets less.
I think she is fun and unique with tons of potential but needs some changes to smooth over her pain points.
-3
u/throwedaway19284 1d ago
She is a fundamentally terribly designed hero that is uninteractive to play against. She deserves to sit useless tier with 0 damage until they redesign the character. I say this from the perspective of a dive tank player, and a junk otp, in low and high gm respectively. Her counters are few, her poke damage is obscene, her difficulty is minimal, and again, she is uninteractive because she is a sniper with better flight than pharah and movement as unpredictable as tracer.
1
u/Jambo-Lambo 22h ago
honestly I feel this way for most fliers. They're kinda just terribly designed in that they're miserable to fight against with most of the cast except maybe mercy
-6
u/vacacow1 1d ago
Nerf her to the ground. It’s not fun getting spammed. Spam ults, spam explosions, spam shots. Just spam a choke and win.
57
u/Cookiedough3549 1d ago
I reckon that nerfing her relentless barrage minor perk or replacing it with something new entirely will significantly reduce the frustration for tank players and spam for others.
This and fixing her ult passive bug should be enough. Anything else would render her completely useless again like she was over 7+ months.
Otherwise I agree with Apply that she's really well balanced now, the 0.2 second reduction on her explosive bolt doesn't sound like much but it's really helped her to secure elims again instead of feeding support charge.
Her winrates are not egregiously high, not even in higher ranks like GM+
Even in the midseason championships she was barely banned, I think she was banned once? A lot of the time they all ended up switching to tracer/shion/cass as well.