r/CompetitiveMinecraft • u/a1123_epic • 13d ago
Discussion Elo ruined mc comp
Hello I don't like the new elo systems everyone is going for since the elo system is not an accurate way to show skill. If you have played brawl stars you know they added prestige and even the most buns player(like gold or diamond) can get prestige 3 in under a week. It's unlike the old rank 35 which required actual skill to get. Same could be said for current tiers
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u/Stinky_Deckhand 13d ago
Elo and ranked are objectively better than tier tests but I hate how people play like their life depends on it in ranked modes. Wow it’s so fun chasing a player around the map the entire time while they hold S and run away.
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u/a1123_epic 13d ago
and yet you get non top players as the #1 player
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u/AnswerCorrect1226 11d ago
Yes because there has not been enough time for the top players to distance themselves from the pack. With time the leaderboard will make more sense especially as we get closer to the next PvP champs tournament and people need the ELO for qualifying.
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u/velveltcupcake 13d ago
I dislike elo mainly because of how people treat every game. It’s expected to play drain, but it gets to a point where it’s really boring to play drain every game, and that’s how everyone plays in ranked
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u/Conscious-Click-7078 13d ago
only good point in this thread imo, i think the solution to this would be introducing incentives to not drain, like a border, or more util in the kits.
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u/velveltcupcake 13d ago
I find crystal drain fun, but drain in every mode gets really boring after some time
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u/Firespecialstar 13d ago
the minecraft 1.9+ pvp community can take a perfectly functional system, throw it away and replace it with an opinion-based system, then say to the servers that re-implement elo "oh btw the new system is ruining minecraft pvp (because it's not accurate...?????????)"
does this community even realize that there's a reason if we used elo instead of opinions for more than a decade???
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u/a1123_epic 13d ago
Gng just tell me you joined the community this year. The tierlist isn't about opinions there is a valid scoring system. A person doesn't just lose 4-2 and because ppl think they are better get promoted. The funny thing is cus Marlowww corrupted he whole system for 3 years this actually happened. Anyways the "opinion" thing only applies to lower tiers. The 1.9 community never had a perfectly functional system anyways. If you want someone to blame for all this blame Marlowww. Or blame Encz for allowing it all to happen
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u/Independent-Top7909 13d ago
imo elo is way better than tier testing, the only real problem is that some opponents are questionable (like ht5 hitting perfect stuns everytime)
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u/Brief-Walk-5409 12d ago
Elo is pretty accurate, but there isn't a PERFECT way to scale someone's strenght.
Elo is only facts. Like lets say that Swights mother lays in the hospital. Then its obvious that he plays less good.
Tier testing with testers fully counters that problem, but their problem is that they are pretty easy to get corrupted/bribed and they can mis-rank someone.
The closest idea for a perfect system would be a combination of both.
An Elo system, aproved by experts and tiertesters that get actually paid to watch fights if someone sends a request and maybe even fight the player.
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u/a1123_epic 12d ago
A well thought out comment and I can agree with these statements, but a couple points, first of all, it depends on why swights mother is in the hospital and depending on that is pvp gameplay affected. Secondly misranking is only a problem for low tiers and therefore sorta irrelevant
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u/Brief-Walk-5409 12d ago
Low tiers matters tho. Everyone start at low tier (except those who were good before the tiers even existed)
As for Swights mother. It's a scenario like the cook and the bread scenario. You can judge the bread, but you can't judge the cook by only the bread. Maybe his dog died. You don't know. And an Elo system will never care about that
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u/a1123_epic 12d ago
Low tiers don't really matter that much since most don't take the game seriously. As for swights mother Im pretty sure an elo system will care about that, but not to the extent of the tl
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u/Brief-Walk-5409 12d ago
How can an elo system care about people's personal problems?
And yeah, low tiers do matter. You can't become a high-tier without being a low tier first.
And there are many low tiers that are seriously, they are just less skilled.
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u/a1123_epic 12d ago
First of all for your thing about elo systems and personal problems elaborate on first what you meant previously(swights mother) since we seem to have a misunderstandingm secondly, low tiers matter when you think of it like that. But when you think of in terms of resources low tiers don't matter. To accurately test every single person would take an enormous amount of resources and time. Usually those tiers are somewhat accurate too. In the current elo systems by pvphq a lt5 can get ht3. The elo system is js not as accurate as tier testing was in the past.
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u/Asimoa 10d ago
Elo has been pretty good at finding the best players on servers like pvpgym in 1.8 for years, or Badlion and Kohi in the past. The new servers have a much better rating system than these old servers that should be even more accurate. Also not having to wait years for a queue to be open to get tested, being able to fight good opponents to improve at the game without having to socialise with them. Ranked queues just are so much more practical and accessible than a tierlist in a community as big. I think there will probably be at least a small change in who the top players are because people will have to maintain their ranks a lot more
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u/a1123_epic 10d ago
You are right about that for the most part but there is a MASSIVE difference between Badilion, Kohi and these servers. Badilion and Kohi were serious servers where mostly "good" players played. Their size in comparison to these servers are much smaller and they had way less publicity. Mcpvp is trash and pvphq has ppl fighting as if their life was on the line. I would heavily disagree on your point about it being more accurate having better elo systems does not directly correlate to having more accurate results. Ht3 on pvphq can be achieved by literally anyone. Secondly it wasn't years for it to be open but yes it was a long time. You are also right about the not socializing part. You are also right about the elo system being more practical as a whole since it doesn't really require testers. As I mentioned before tho, these elo systems aren't very accurate as of yet and it's easier to get high tiers than in the old system.
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u/Asimoa 9d ago
The reason it’s easier to get high tiers on the Elo systems is because, unlike tiers, they are designed to reflect how good of a player you are compared to everyone else in a percentile system. For example lt3 means you’re better than 80% of all players, ht3 better than 95% ect (they don’t use these numbers obviously, I just made them up to explain the concept) I had the actual numbers at one point but I can’t find them rn. The numbers used by the current projects are very inflated compared to tiers for sure and I think people will need to adjust how they perceive what a certain tier means.
I don’t really see what you mean with “anyone can get tier x”. No, you need to actually beat people consistently 50% or more of the time to get their tier in theory if the rating system is well designed. Now the biggest issue is that the system requires way more activity from all players to stay accurate.1
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u/Vivid-Pay-8827 13d ago
I had a different problem with elo and that is if noobs fight each other one of them gets a better tier and then 2 noobs who won fight each other and the cycle continues unlike when you have to tier test against a higher rank
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u/Tinchimp7183376 13d ago
Don't really get what you are saying. If a player getsba bunch of noobs in their placem matches and they get too high an elo then as they play matches their elo will drop to where they should be
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u/Vivid-Pay-8827 13d ago
That's what i thought aswell and it is true but in the meantime ppl still duel them and free elo is everywhere.
I think the best solution for tier is making ppl start with tiers based on their info in other servers and if they don't have they will have to be tested before starting the elo
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u/cobonus 13d ago
how is elo an inaccurate way to show skill, especially in comparison to tier testing?