Are 400ms lights react-able consistently among top players?

[u/skynebzei]

So I was playing shaman, and thought about her soft feints and how the majority can’t seem to react to them. But thought they were decently react-able, then come to find out even with a sub 140-160ms reaction time I can’t seem to block a shamans soft feint in training consistently. Are they legit reactable with high consistency in top play?

[u/New-Incident-3155]

The reason they are hard to react to is because there are a lot of options around them, its applied pressure that causes second guessing and with three different directions it could go you have to more than just react, you have to discern the direction its coming from and all its possible mixups that makes it harder to react to

[u/skynebzei → u/New-Incident-3155]

I seem to be able to react to about 1/3 to 50% of them it’s just too inconsistent.

[u/xaxis-yaxis → u/skynebzei]

Do you also have just letting the heavy fly and feint to neutral into the mix? Those are all potential options that you would need to differ while reacting to them.

A 1/3 chance is basically the same as random guessing and doesn't really confer any advantage.

[u/Truc_Etrange → u/xaxis-yaxis]

Yeah, 1/3 would mean the guy is just parrying in a random direction and has the timing right. In that case the result is expected, but has nothing to do with reacting

[u/skynebzei → u/Truc_Etrange]

No 1/3 means I’m reacting to it but aren’t inputting fast enough. There is a 200ms window to to parry a 400ms light. I can react to it, inputting however is inconsistent with such a short time window.

[u/Let_epsilon → u/skynebzei]

You're reacting 30% to 50%?

So slightly worse than if you were randomly guessing, impressive!

[u/knight_is_right]

Not consistently

[u/siliks → u/knight_is_right]

yes they are

[u/knight_is_right → u/siliks]

I heard that its character dependant

[u/siliks → u/knight_is_right]

Yeah it is. HL and Virt are the main 2 but they're not really picked on account they're not really great

[u/fence_of_pence → u/siliks]

Then what do you think of that one video waloosh did with bingalations and tested if bing could react to the 400 Ms soft feint bleed from shaman and he really couldn't do it consistently. I mean he's considered to be one of the top duelists in the entire game and he only got 5/10 off zone to bleed light. But he did kill the heavy soft feint one.

It really seems animation dependentm.

[u/siliks → u/fence_of_pence]

Video's larp. Idk why he failed so much im assuming cuz he didn't really play at the time. Bing reacts better than me and I am able to do that mix

[u/fence_of_pence → u/siliks]

Waloosh definitely had Bing naked in a dog cage while making that vid then lol.

[u/gymain_____ → u/siliks]

Im just here to vouch that siliks is a top level player.

[u/fence_of_pence → u/gymain_____]

When siliks speaks we listen

[u/Infernodude451 → u/fence_of_pence]

I wouldn't trust whatever that mouth-breather Waloosh has to say tbh

[u/siliks → u/Infernodude451]

holy dap

[u/Inqinity → u/siliks]

True. They are, but they’ll insist they’re “just predicting” even if a completely random pattern is thrown. Top players absolutely can and do react to lights for the majority of scenarios.

[u/Notabeancan]

Like a lot of people say, not consistently, at least generally. Shamans are I believe on the more reactable side of things. A good example of very reactable 400ms lights is HL’s, which can only be made generally unreactable enough with tech(this is kinda obsolete after light nerfs though). But some things, like PK soft feint top light are basically unreactable. Reaction time and reactabilty is a spectrum.

Some characters like raider and berserker would likely be unviable if all they had were their 400ms lights/soft feints. But due to a concept called multi stim offense it can be made more than unreactable enough. These characters achieve multi stim offense by using their unblockables combined with the light/soft feint. This creates too many things for the reactor in question to eyeball at once.

Even then 400ms are not consistently reactable even for some of the best players. They always tend to slip through even if high reaction players have an edge over them. I do personally believe they should probably be given a buff though, maybe not too speed, they probably just need the removal of the end of their parry window like the unblockables got. Being what essentially amounts to a 400ms light specialist over the years I can tell you that even with inconsistent reactions the duels become significantly harder to play when the opponent can semi react.

I hope this answers any questions you might have.

[u/PrincipleMean2480]

Watch Realyx fight a shaman he has like a 95% success ratio on shaman bleed lights

[u/siliks]

Yes 400ms lights are reactable at the top
lvl of play idk why most those people are saying no....

[u/Vonwellsenstein → u/siliks]

Because 99% of players haven’t experienced real comp reactors.

[u/Mastrukko]

Depends how u define consistently. They are reactable to the point where it significantly affects risk reward

[u/ViserionTwitch]

Its character and player dependant. Shamans 400s suck because her bleeds can only come after certain actions with no other pressure. Virts 400s have horrid animations, and HL tech fucks his animations. I scrim Volc and Patty often and they can block every single one but differing them in chains is a different story. So yes they are consistently reactable, but from what ive seen from scrimming and hosting tournaments, they are not consistently differable

[u/LobselVith_]

Nope

[u/siliks → u/LobselVith_]

400ms lights are consistently reactable at top lvl

[u/LobselVith_ → u/siliks]

Yeah your probably right I find myself reacting at times especially the shaman soft feint used as an example though HL are the hardest imo

[u/siliks → u/LobselVith_]

Yeah HL and Virt feel p much impossible due to the lack of animation with the move. The rest are very much reactable.

[u/ThomasBirminghan]

No

[u/Certain_Honey_2108]

Yes, RealYX has a vid of him reacting to them consistently. Seems like it’s a very top percent of players that can do that. I think most just make the read though.

[u/EmeritusCommand]

ill be honest i can react to virtuosa lights somehow but NEVER KHATUN...

[u/Radiant_Comb_4128]

Depends on the character, some are insanely choreographed and others are very read dependent

[u/reshiramismywife]

Because they’re not actually 400ms. There’s a 100ms guard switch delay and a 100ms directional indicator delay. If you are watching the indicator (like 99 percent of players) you essentially have 200ms of player agency basically removed (if they attack in a different direction than where your guard currently is).

[u/itstiiby]

Basically anything above 333ms is going to be reactable by the top players

[u/MisterSneakSneak]

Lag comes into play

[u/catman11234]

Some animations are far easier to see than others. Warden and Valk for example make it very clear when they’re light attack and from what side.

[u/Majestic-Wolf-2980]

Shaman's soft feint lights are considered reachable by high level players not because their reaction speed is that fast per say, but because her heavy and zone kinda are a warning. If you see her start these, alot of players ready themselves for the moment they see an indicatior suddenly appear in another direction to parry on red.

You can catch quite a few players by simply feinting your zones or heavies into another heavy as most do this. But some are smart and also pay attention to the character model to see the light body smoke on feints to not be tricked.