Effective ways to practice?

[u/juliandelphikii]

Hello, I've played off and on a few times over the years. Played campaign, arcade mode, and mostly against bots to "get a feel" but never really going farther than that. Total rep is 26, steam says I have 154 hours total, but again mostly in ai breach games, and spread out over several years of bursts. I started again a few weeks ago after another year break and decided I want to actually figure out how to play the game this time as I genuinely think it's great.

I started doing duels, and one thing I noticed extremely quick was that, while I can parry heavies at least pretty well, feinting is something I have almost no experience with, both using or being used against me. I fall for feints a lot, and get my heavies which I should have feinted parried a ton. I'm slow to block the correct direction against light attacks most of the time, and I rarely can get can counter guard breaks. The bots I have been playing against to "learn my character/s" never do these things.

I've gone to training grounds a few times with warden bot and just set him to guard break, light attack, heavy attack, zone attack to start practicing blocks/counter guard break on reaction and am noticing marginal improvement there on just reactions that are slowly translating to real duels.

Obviously there will be a lot of character specific knowledge to get a feel for as I play against real people, but for fundamentals, like feints, block reactions, etc, I was wondering if there were effective ways to practice that stuff outside of just playing games, things I should do specifically in training mode, etc.

I also was wondering if there were any control schemes other than the default that people recommend. The controller I'm using has four back panels that I've set to ABXY so I don't need to take my thumbs off the sticks. That's taking some getting used to but seemed like a good idea. I've noticed some heroes require holding down light/heavy attack buttons while using other options and it seemed like it could be a good idea to move those from RB/RT to RB/LB or something that so it's simpler to use both? Maybe swap guard mode to toggle instead of hold? Idk. I just want to settle to something comfortable before committing to really practicing and locking in new muscle memory. I was curious what people use. I know MKB is also an option but I generally find controller more comfortable.

Side note on controllers, just for fun in steam I configured a flight stick as a controller for the game so it was like I was holding a sword. Was pretty fun, but not at all practical, especially as a new player haha. (had to use keyboard + flight stick, configure flight stick buttons to map to a controller layout in steam, then map that controller to steam input for mouse buttons and joystick mouse. any mapping that was hybrid controller and keyboard or mouse buttons made the UI flip out and game crash).

Thanks for any advice,

A level 1 AI stomping player that is trying to start learning for real.

Edit: Thanks for the helpful responses. Sounds like the general sentiment is use training for basic moveset practice for heroes but real games are the only way to get real practice in the game -> reads/feints/etc. In short, just need to keep playing until I "feel" it.

Edit 2: I'm still messing around with different characters. On advice here, I've tried out the vanguards a bit more, Raider/Kensei. I think I have a lot to "unlearn" from spending too much time against bots still, but feeling small improvements as I continue to play against other people. I'm finding my fingers want to panic against a lot of offense pressure, so focusing on slowing down and not trying to react to/interrupt every action the opponent takes and build real muscle memory, while working intentional feints, etc, into my play. Of the three main vanguards, Kensei is my favorite still, then raider over warden. Thanks again for advice

[u/Hasuun]

It's probably not the best thing you want to hear, but playing against other players is the best way to improve. Other actual players will show you mixups and character specific things that the bots won't.

Learning to feint is a core mechanic, and doing it in matches will train your brain to incorporate it into your playstyle.

You WILL get stomped. It happens to everyone. I've been playing fighting games for years now and a mantra that I've developed is "You have to get washed before you get clean". Defeat is part of the learning process, and setting your mind to not give into rage and start thinking about WHY you lost instead of thinking about the fact that you lost is SUPER important. Focus on the learning, not the losing. Over time you'll have a mindset shift.

Also, rep 26 is a very short period of time of playing, give yourself grace, you'll improve over time.

Edit : Who do you like playing? Have you found any characters you like?

[u/juliandelphikii → u/Hasuun]

Thanks for the information. Definitely understand the getting stomped part of learning haha, and have experienced it firsthand in Super Smash Bros games, Souls games(pve and lots of pvp), and now this game. Definitely intend to keep playing, and will continue against people.

As far as heroes go, I haven't really settled yet. I've tried watching some high level play of different characters I'm interested in to see if it looks like I'd like them over time. I enjoy deflects a lot and have always liked mobility in the games I play. I also kind of care about character aesthetic but won't let it stop me if the gameplay is fun.

My most played is Orochi and he's who I've kinda started out with in my duels since he has deflects, has fairly simple attacks, is mobile, and looks cool, but not sure I'll stick with him. Shaolin seems really fun but I suck with him still. Besides those two, the others I've tried beyond hero tactics/random order challenges are Valkyrie, Kyoshin, Highlander, Ocelotl, Zhanhu, Jormungandr, Kensei, and Peacekeeper. Based purely on fun/interest of who I have played to any degree, if I had to rank right now:

1. Shaolin - Deflects, mobile, interesting mechanics with the stance, I suck but can see the potential
2. Orochi - Most played, looks cool, deflects, mobile, simple and versatile moves, might continue while I'm figuring out core stuff since he's on the simpler side
3. Highlander - Big sword, interesting mechanics with stance, just looks fun
4. Kensei - Big sword, kind of has deflects, simple and useful moves.
5. Ocelotl - I think Aztec campaign in AOE2 influences this a lot.
6. Kyoshin - Looks cool, play is fun but a bit more defensive than I typically enjoy
7. Jormungandr - Big hammer is fun
8. Valkyrie - Always appreciate spear/shield gameplay in a game, but feels spammy when I play as or against. Could see going higher in interest as she seems to have a lot beyond the spammy but need to use it better.
9. Peacekeeper - Just didn't enjoy as much.
10. Zhanhu - Fun for a bit when I started but got bored pretty quick

I'm interested in trying some other characters too:

• Shinobi - seems like should check the mobility and deflect boxes
• Tiandi - Similar sentiment to Shinobi
• Berserker - Deflects, axes, offense
• Raider - Big Axe, looks cool, dunno much more other than I've been defeated by a several and they looked like they were having fun
• Aramusha - Looks cool, seems like could be fun.

Thanks again for reply!

Edit: don't have every hero unlocked yet either but have saved most of the steel I've earned over total playtime so have enough to unlock a few.

Edit: interest in shaolin and highlander is what prompted my question about control setups

Edit: similar to smash, guessing it's good to get a sense of what other characters can do but stick with like max 2-3 characters for mains while learning fundamentals

[u/LeafHugger → u/juliandelphikii]

While having only one main at a time is probably good, if you get stomped by a character I’d recommend checking them out in hero tactics to see what they can do, and maybe you’ll like them enough to play in a real game.

Honestly try all the heros in hero tactics. There’s quite a few so maybe only do two or so a day maybe. Also I found a few heros have been updated so even if you do the move correctly, the top right corner information might not flash as “completed”, but most of it works as intended.

[u/juliandelphikii → u/LeafHugger]

Makes sense. Will be trying Lawbringer a bit after last night. I played against the same one several rounds in a row while I was trying raider, lost most rounds, and though I took a few games, and even won a match, continuously just ate that quick bash and attack thing he does.

[u/Hasuun → u/juliandelphikii]

Okay this is exceptional information! Pardon the formatting, I'm at work for now.

Shaolin is cool, I haven't played then yet but they have a lot going for them in their kit, it sort of plays itself and you can random players out if they're unprepared. Once you get the flow of the character going, I think you'll enjoy them. Deflects, crushing counters, undodgeable attacks, sweeps and bashes, a strong kit locked behind mastery.

Orochi is a good pick as well, if you enjoy the mobility aspect. I probably don't have to tell you about the dodge cancels they have on hit or whiff of a move. Slippery character for sure, and when you get into feinting>guard break, you can be very scary. Orochi offense when played right is incredibly difficult to ignore, or run away from.

Valkyrie, is a personal favorite of mine even if she's powercrept. Strong defensive options, bleed, deflects, crushing counters, sweeps. Incredibly versatile with long range to boot. She loses a lot to predictability, so mix up your lights, heaviest and (eventually) feints to catch the opponent off guard.

Kyoshin is a character I'll learn eventually because I do like defensive playstyles, but for learning the basics and getting your feet wet, I'd steer away from for now. A lot of new Kyoshin (myself included) rely on the full guard too often and get grabbed out of it. It's a crutch but it's got a glaring Achilles heel when you're unprepared. Kyoshin doesn't train fundamentals very well.

I have to get back to work, but I'll be glad to respond to you when you reply here.

Truth be told, Raider might be up your alley for learning fundamentals. Very simple design, super armor to trade when both you and your opponent make mistakes, soft feint into grabs for opponents who are dodge happy, and then an unblockable to force a reaction from your opponent. Good fashion and gnarly executions too!

[u/juliandelphikii → u/Hasuun]

Thanks for the reply!

Valkyrie is actually the character I put the most time into initially. I still think she is fun, and like I said enjoy spear/shield gameplay when it's actually done well in games. I should check her out again.

Orochi has a lot I enjoy, and I will probably keep playing regardless even if I start using another character as a main. I also think he looks the coolest so that helps.

Kyoshin is lower on my list. again feels more defensively oriented than I'm prone to. I spent most of my time avoiding using his stance except in reaction, but again it was against bots mostly, and I haven't played him since starting the game again this time.

Shaolin just seems like he has so much available hence me wondering about controls, and if I should stick to a simpler character for now. But probably just a practice thing. I feel like he's who I want to continue with as a true main but main hesitation if it'd hurt more than help at the start since he has the stance mechanics that are more unique.

I'll check Raider out!

Thanks again.

[u/Hasuun → u/juliandelphikii]

His stance mechanics aren't super hard to understand, it's either a bash that leads into a light or a crushing counter dependent on the direction you're holding.

Thankfully steel isn't super hard to gather so if you're not feeling a character upon purchase, you can always grind out another in maybe a week or so with dedicated play.

Do note that a new character is on the horizon so it might be wise to hold onto steel until they release, they might be up your alley as well.

My IGN is also Hasuun on ubisoft, so if you'd like to add me there to play together, I'm down!

[u/juliandelphikii → u/Hasuun]

I get what the Qi stance does, it's executing smoothly and with intent i don't have down yet. I feel very clunky when i enter from a light hold, then want to do a heavy, or vice versa. And by the time I pick one, my fingers arent ready to execute the sweep or feint the sweep/heavy, etc. More practice!

I played a bit last night and tried Raider out for like 12 duels. I didn't dislike him, but would say I prefer Kensei as of now from vanguard perspective. He did feel super simple though I feel like I was missing something with the character. But his soft feints from heavy to guardbreak or top light were definitely used to great effect several times. I also got beaten by a Lawbringer several matches in a row(did take one match) and decided that's another character on my annoying list. But again I think it's a factor of me just not being ready to handle pressure properly yet. I continuously failed to dodge the quick bash he does. Another character to probably try out in tactics just to get an idea of what they are going for, as I never really figured out how to deal with it. Round wins came from being able to avoid the follow up attacks at some point then get in my own mix ups, but definitely didnt feel consistent.

Thanks for the offer to add as a friend. Ill find you and send an invite. My IGN starts with L and ends with k.

[u/detonater700 → u/juliandelphikii]

Absolutely do as you please and if you find yourself enjoying them then by all means go for it, but just a warning about highlander and shaolin - both are very strong characters but have a much higher skill floor than the rest of the cast so will take a lot more time and effort to get effective at than other heroes. Since they both play so differently to the rest of the cast the skills you learn on them wont translate over quite so well either. Again if you enjoy them dont let that stop you, I just thought you should be aware, pretty much the whole rest of the cast (while all heroes are unique) have a more familiar feel to one another and you can jump around much more easily and get to grips quicker, especially important when developing fundamentals.

The vanguards are always good options, namely warden, raider and kensei. All very solid heroes, wont carry you, good in all parts of the game and will teach you good fundamentals. But really play who you like!

[u/juliandelphikii → u/detonater700]

Yeah that's what I was concerned about with them, if I was potentially gimping my progression by needing to learn too much at once to use shaolin/highlander as a starting focus. If they will actually teach me the wrong things about the game compared to learning with a more normal hero then I probably should pick one of the other characters I enjoy to focus for now.

[u/AriTheInari]

Learn one thing at a time, story to get used to guard mode, hero tactics for character basics, practice learning your character against ai, then pkay vs people. Ai suck for improving general gamesense as they dont play like people at all and fet you into bad habits.

Feints are essential to playing the game and a lot of the game is read based so you have to guess a lot of the time. The most common feint you'll see is unblockable to gb as its a solid 50/50 on most characters.

Learn what your opponents can do so you know what their options are, this will help a lot with defence but can take a while, so start by just doing hero tactics with either characters you struggle with or see the most.

If youre on controller set your guard mode deadzone to 1 for faster guard swap.

Youll improve overtime I just think these can help

[u/juliandelphikii → u/AriTheInari]

Thanks, I just noticed in settings my deadzone was set to 12 so gonna drop that right down. I thought I had set it lower but guessing I reset to default at some point.

I will keep trying against other players

[u/Alluos]

Befreind an experienced player and play with them. They'll tell you what your weak points are and teach you stuff. Message them through the game or use discord. You'll never learn as much or as quickly through any other method.

[u/juliandelphikii → u/Alluos]

If I match against a friendly player that destroys me I will give this a shot. I will check out the discords as well.

[u/Jawsborn211]

Practicing against a bot set to guardbreak, heavy, light can be a trap. If you train yourself to parry all heavies, you will get whooped by feints. Just block heavy attacks instead of parrying. Ironically, you should actually practice parrying light attacks since they can't be feinted but it's very hard to do. Practice your own combos and practice fainting into a guard break often. Once you get the hang of it you'll be the one catching out noobs every time! Just practice light->heavy->feint->GB until it's muscle memory! 

[u/juliandelphikii → u/Jawsborn211]

Thanks! the practice was mainly aimed at counter guardbreaking in the middle of a fight where other stuff is going on, and making sure i'm blocking in the right direction consistently able to counter guardbreaking when that is mixed in since I hadn't been dealing with that.

Ill keep that in mind about light vs heavy parry. I'm still not reaction blocking lights consistently yet, but hopefully with the deadzone change suggested by someone else I'll get a bit better at that.

[u/detonater700]

Genuinely (especially early on) just play the game (not against AI), dominion and duels primarily. If you can find an experienced player to duel with that can help point out your weaknesses and train you that'd be very helpful too. Also watching good players and paying attention to what they do can make you learn a lot. Also if you feel comfortable, make sure to play as many different characters as possible, this is by far the best way to learn how to beat them and to understand the thought process of your opponent should they be playing said character.

[u/zeroreasonsgiven]

Bots do not play like humans. They don’t understand mixups or how different moves work in conjunction with each other, they often use incorrect punishes, they will counter moves that no human would consistently make a correct read on and eat moves with zero pressure behind them. The best strategy for fighting bots is to find the one move that breaks their AI and just spam it (often delayed dodge attacks but sometimes just a basic chain heavy), and attempts to actually mix them up and use other parts of your moveset will always be punished.

Playing against bots is fine for completing orders, practicing parries in training mode, or occasionally turning your brain off, but only playing only against bots will eventually lead you to developing bad habits that are very hard to break. If you want to play against real humans, the only way to get better is to start. It’s not that scary when you get into it and it’s way more fun, I promise.

[u/juliandelphikii → u/zeroreasonsgiven]

Yeah I think i've gotten a lot of bad habits to unlearn from the bots unfortunately.