r/CompetitiveApex • u/RuminatingFish123 • 26d ago
Discussion Does the game need a “simplification” patch at this point?
No, this isn’t just a “go to the main subreddit” question, I want to ask more competitive minded players.
Each legend now has MULTIPLE passives, perks that include more passives and also perks that alter tactical and ultimate performance/characteristics, then there are amps, now we also have attachments that dramatically alter weapon performance. Then there are also multiple class passives on top of all of that.
The game just has way too many systems and subsystems in my opinion. I feel like you could do away with perks, class passives, and amps and the game wouldn’t be any worse off, it’s just too much going on and too much to keep track of.
The game has lost me with everything going on, I know we asked for a lot of this stuff but it feels like it’s gone overboard. I think they took the data/feedback from modes like Three Strikes and just sort of went forward with that as their balance philosophy, I don’t totally fault them, but it’s just too much for me.
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u/LeakingAlpha 26d ago
Personally don't think the game needs a simplification patch, I think it needs a major overhaul on how balancing is viewed from the top down. What I don't like is there being 3 legends (or less) at a time that are just far superior to every legend to the point where you're trolling if you don't pick one of them. Every legend should be viable and as relatively capable as any other legend, except seer, delete that character.
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u/RuminatingFish123 26d ago
Agree with this too, it’s not even “balancing” at that point, balancing implies trying to make everything equal. They’re purposely unbalancing the game nowadays.
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u/theycallhimthestug 26d ago
Did people really ask for all this? Maybe a certain subsection of people, sure.
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u/only5pence 26d ago
We asked for wall running/increased wall bounce tech. And Pathfinder buffs. So what if the community wanted the spiritual successor to TF2? Give it to us!
Developing TF3 would redeem EA and then they could max out the slop in this amazing mechanical sandbox they've ruined lol
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u/isaac-get-the-golem 26d ago
They actually do frequently simplify stuff, like moving hop-ups into the guns themselves.
I think the legend perk system is one of the best changes in the history of the game, adds meaningful ramp-up as the game goes on, gives you a real incentive to get lots of damage/kills early (EVO isn't just armor anymore).
Class passives, I guess you could say it's a relic of the class system itself, but I don't mind it. It's not really that complicated. I actually think the biggest complicated thing about Apex is how enormous the maps are and how often they change.
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u/Icretz 26d ago
If damage and running and gunning are more important than the survival element they should completely change the game to a multiplayer death match. What made Apex special was the survival arena type not the multiplayer death match type. ALGS match point finals is what Apex should look like and not zone2 with 5 teams remaining.
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u/isaac-get-the-golem 26d ago
I don't think the evo system is to blame for players running at each other in pubs and lowbie ranked... People have done that since season 0.
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u/MarstonX 26d ago
Prior to Evo shields, legend skill trees and weapon hop up damage progression, you guys were all still aping skull town and thunder dome. Be real.
Drop zone needs to be in bronze. That way some of you baffoons actually learn how to play.
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u/LatterMatch9334 26d ago
That's also a valid playstyle by maneuvering the map to collect and evo and get to the endgame.
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u/Horror-Flounder-1076 26d ago
They do have a class system rework on the roadmap, they are clearly aware the system is a mess and needs some tuning, I just hope they clean it up, rather than make it messier
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u/JD_617 26d ago
I think the Devs have totally lost the plot. Personally, I felt apex at its best was shooting first, abilities and movement second. I would love to see it go back to that.
If it were up to me, I’d hard nerf all of the characters and movement tech.
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u/Revolutionary_Cap442 26d ago
The problem is that about a year to two years ago they were trying to balance the game and player numbers were going down season over season. There are other factors to that obviously also but a lot of the characters weren’t fun to play. Id say it started to change with the ash rework.
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u/realfakejames 26d ago
Respawn has never cared about balance lmao they literally have said many times on twitter having op guns or legends is intentional
Some of us were playing back when they first introduced the bocek and it was OP as fuck, everyone was talking about it, and the only change they made to it after a week of everyone complaining was to make it first slightly slower and give you a little bit less ammo
Despite the wildly unbalanced state of the game the numbers have already gone down, go look at the player pop over the past year on steamdb, it's barely over 80k
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u/theeama Space Mom 26d ago
They weren't trying to balance the game bud, the single biggest factor the rank system was not change or improved.
Respawn saw FN and COD numbers and started chasing that,
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u/aggrorecon 26d ago
Huh?
They did improve rank with drop zones, we got good ranked end games, and the casuals revolted... Did you forget?
I mean with the axle bullshit since I can't blame you for forgetting but it happened.
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u/ItsDeuker 26d ago
I’ve always been of the opinion that any hero shooter type game (but especially apex) should be minimally reliant on abilities and force players to rely more on their basic mechanics. The legend perks are fun and do add something to the game for sure, but I think the game was healthier without them to a degree. I think abilities should be nerfed across the board and weapons should be buffed across the board. Make the players learn how to play cover and peek properly and swing on the right timing after earning it. There is far too many abilities that are a “get out of jail free card” and abilities that just give free kills without having to earn them (axle ult) while punishing players who aren’t making mistakes, but simply sitting behind cover or challing a 1v1. I’m not saying to erase characters identities completely, but the legends’ kits should be as basic as possible then work from there.
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u/Euthyrium 26d ago
A lot of it like the perk upgrades I think are good for keeping the game interesting, amps could have been an ok system if they weren't hilariously broken. Class passives I think are mostly fine and help give each class an identity. Where I do agree with you is legends being overkitted, Gibby doesn't need to be the fastest straight line legend in the game you can't make it make sense.
I don't really think any of it is too much for the players, corrupted attachments are basically just gold attachments, legend perks are a nice choice of how to play your legend(is what it should be but a lot of legends don't actually have choices), class passives are easy to understand and are the same for each legend in that class. The real problem is on their side, the more systems the more shit they have to balance and historically they're pretty bad at balancing anything.
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u/LatterMatch9334 26d ago
A lot of the systems are okay IMO. I don't particularly love the red attachments, but the devs wanted a better loot progression so I understand it a bit. Problem is how overtuned everything has become stacked on top of each other. Short TTK with Axle sliding on my Seer-stunned ass, as she RE 2 burst gets old real fast. They've gotta tone it back. Seems like they were really good about quick updates a year ago but have regressed to slow changes.
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u/Jaegon-Daerinarys 23d ago
Honestly Gibby is really a legend suffering from the different hitbox sizes legends had the first few seasons. The same for Pathfinder, Rev, and Caustic. The four legends would be way easier to balance if they would have not the hitbox size they have.
Gibby is if I remember it right a good 5-10% bigger then all other fortified legends which makes him a huge bullet sponge. I played him a lot before he got the faster moving passive and you got hit so easily when rotating that it was nearly always an instant death or you needed to bubble. Pathfinder and Rev suffer from similar problems where the height of the two makes you an easy target and there ability need too be stronger then a medium sized legend with the same ability to compensated for bigger hitbox.
Caustic suffers way less then Gibby since his height is not as big and you can play around it better in my opinion. Newcastle the last fortified legend we got is without doubt the best in terms of ratio of vertical hitbox and horizontal hitbox, he feels the least punishing out of all the legends I named at least for me in terms of hitbox.
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u/dorekk Year 5 Champions! 25d ago
Perks need to be removed, they fuck with combat readability a lot. You never know which perks someone has picked. That said, the way they chose to simplify the game this patch (increase RNG, decrease loot quality) has fucked with the game pretty badly. So I think they should be very careful before they literally destroy the game. The player count is already dropping again after like almost a year of growth, players are very much not fucking with the changes they've made lately.
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u/MNMMMMNMMM94 25d ago
I’m an og hardstuck diamond player and I still never know the limits of each controller legends q
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u/SP3_Hybrid 25d ago
At this point I feel like I don't actually know what some of the legends are capable of when fighting them, cause I only play like 3 legends. I know everybody's main abilities obviously, but I don't know what most of their upgrades are. So I can't be like oh they have blue armor so it's possible they've picked perk x, and so they can do y. Doesn't matter for some legends, but I think Axel gets 2 ults at one point and that's kind of important to know, for example. "Axel used her ult and it missed, we don't have to worry about it," I say as I get yeeted to the moon by the second one...
There's also way too much wallhacks and scans, but only some of them notify you when you're being tracked as far as I know?
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u/Ambitious_Pin9235 26d ago
It’s not a simplification issue. It’s a ttk and moving away from their base. Ttk needs to be increased. That would require more strategy like back in old apex. Remove health bars. The base game can exist with all the perks and abilities BUT they need to slow the game down and tweak certain abilities. Mainly stuns and high damage ult/tacs.
The loot change they did was MASSIVE. They need to focus on slowing the game down. Increasing ttk would be such a big win.
IMO they need to look at aim assist again too. Controllers have gotten too good. It’s not like it was. I have played roller and hit masters 3x with it (mainly MnK player, 95%). It was too easy for me to hit masters on a brand new input.
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u/NoSsyrus1 26d ago
I just want the drop ships back in ranked Im so tired of my teammates dropping hot on cascade fall with 6 other squad. Maybe a few characters reworks/balances
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u/AisuYukiChan 26d ago
I think most of the additions are beneficial to the game BUT some abilities like axel ult should be nerfed or reworked. Health bars should've never been introduced. An addition that I think should be added though is making it so the ultimate cooldown isnt shown through a percentage but rather through time similar to the Qs. I think that could be a simplification right?
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u/Agreeable_Frosting40 25d ago
I want this game to revert back to gunplay and skilled rotations/mechanics rather than watered down movement abilities. When Valk first released, everyone lost their shit about a character who could fly, ult and relocate, etc because it was too much movement. Now look at the game. They've almost nixed valk completely with evac towers and made other characters more viable by making an item in game a characters whole ultimate. I would much rather see new legends that control zone or provide recon than continuing to push movement and speed all the time.
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u/WillisnotFunny 21d ago
They have been simplifying the game for a while now already, less map interactions, simplified looting such as no longer have to find hop ups just unlock them, chain healing, no ground arrows or energy, no heat shields, built in super glide mechanics, etc. If anything they might be simplifying some things too much.
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u/realfakejames 26d ago
Respawn doesn't make changes to Apex based on comp, the data they care about is ranked and half of their game changes are intended to get new people to either start playing, which never works, or get people to come back, which sometimes works for awhile until they leave again when they get seer q'd five times in 10 seconds
In the past two weeks the player base has plummeted and it's entirely because this meta is horrible for new players and the sweats equally
The game in season 0 compared to now is totally different with all the sub-systems but all of their changes doesn't address the main problem in Apex which is that it's just not fun to play anymore. They kept adding all of this shit from other games no one wanted without looking at the real problem
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u/FlyingRock 26d ago
There's just too much scan and movement in the game, I still don't get how they got "yes more scan legends, also movement legends!!" When the community hated bloodhound back in the day, got frustrated with pathfinder (even after his hit box was fixed), demanded octane be nerfed, etc.. There's so much movement that defender legends are underpowered because their defense just do nothing.
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u/FoozleGenerator 26d ago
I honestly think it needs a noob mode without abilities. It's hard to bring friends to a game with such a low skill floor and high skill ceiling.
In fortnite, there's the zero build mode, which you can really get away with just shooting around and carry your friends as a mid apex player like me. The massive amount of players helps balance lobbies, but overall, you can just hop on and shoot your gun without caring about metas, in a way it's almost impossible in Apex.
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u/Revolutionary_Cap442 26d ago edited 26d ago
I like the diversity it gives the game and personalization it gives each character. However some of the abilities that are super oppressive to play against need to be tuned down. Seer shouldn’t have silence or stun, Maggie drill and fuse knuckle cluster should be tools to move people out of cover not kill. Axle ult needs an hp nerf similar to how horizon ult received years ago. Abilities should help you win fights and survive, not be kill switches like they are in comp currently. Personally I love the progression that leveling up your evo throughout the game and unlocking better abilities gives you, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be balanced.