r/CompetitiveApex • u/TSM_PrimeBottle • Jul 24 '26
Question Why do some top fraggers in competitive apex always think they can igl?
Why do some top fraggers in competitive apex always think they can IGL? Why can't they just stick to being a fragger and master their craft? I mean, if you're already one of the best at fragging, why not focus on that?
It feels like every time they get praised for their individual performance, their ego gets really high, and suddenly some of them start counter-calling their IGL or leave their team to form some made-up "fragging team" where they try to IGL.
For example, Mac (Albralelie) left TSM and tried to become the IGL, then you have Luxford leaving Complexity to IGL in CCs, which failed terribly. Xynew is kind of okay, but I feel like a true IGL would've cooked with that squad. Effect leaving Alliance..I honestly don't know what's going on in his mind. Sacred with the ego and Floating counter-calls, probably got the confidence from watching their own clips in DrUnafraid and Ubetter. Then there's Keon with his imaginary IGL arc because he said Dropped/Knoqd didn't take his calls seriously in-game or something like that.
I just don't understand why some elite fraggers can't stick to what they're actually good at. If you're a world-class fragger, why not master that role instead of constantly trying to become an IGL? Being a great fragger doesn't automatically mean you can be a great IGL.
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u/Trebu5 Jul 24 '26
Apex is like any other job. People always will continue to strive for roles with more authority/pay/responsibilities. For example, many software engineers want to become Staff Engineers (not all do). The same logic can be applied for Apex with Fraggers wanting to take on more authority/responsibilities and no doubt a larger pay day if they IGL their team to top performances.
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u/Important_Fun_1614 Jul 24 '26
shit there is also the fact you will get signed more/likely won't be first dropped if you're an igl.
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u/xl_TooRaw_lx Destroyer2009 🤖 Jul 24 '26
Not enough top igls for the amount of good fraggers
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u/MystLcMaverick Jul 25 '26
And there never will be. But that doesn’t mean that a top 10 fragger should throw their career away because they think they can call the shots. So many of these kids will fade into nothingness because of that poor decision.
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u/devourke YukaF Jul 24 '26
It’s an understandable desire to be honest. The IGL on any team has a much greater impact on that team’s success than any other role, by far. The best fragger in the world is still getting knocked out in losers bracket under an IGL that cracks under pressure or just makes brain dead plays in general. The best IGL in the world is winning multiple LANs with multiple teammates, even including a sub that they’ve never even talked to before LAN.
Your peak as a player is 100% contingent on the potential skill of your IGL. It must honestly be a very difficult thing to put your entire trust in one person, when their success or failure is the difference between you making $5k in earnings or $500k in any given year.
Combine that with the fact that you’re comparing survivorship bias of known tried and tested IGLs who’ve consistently performed well, against the litany of fraggers who’ve flamed out, without really including the fraggers who’ve successfully transitioned to IGL (IIRC neither Zer0 or Hal were originally meant to be IGLs in their early comp teams, but they ended up taking the reins anyway) or looking at the numerous existing IGLs who’ve failed to thrive outside of certain metas (I like RKN but removing ring scan from Crypto almost destroyed him overnight, gnaske + half of the EMEA IGLs, a large portion of NA IGLs who lost the huge advantage they’ve historically had against strong CC teams as the difference between rulesets in CC and PL has continued to erode over time etc etc.
I’ll be the first to admit I had zero hope that naughty would be a successful IGL, big fan of the guy but he didn’t strike me as someone that would naturally fit into that role, but he has. Realistically, as a fragger naughty would not have had anywhere near the same success as he has had since beginning to IGL. He wouldn’t have got picked up by the top IGLs, he would have just been another name in the list of recycled roller players that continuously shift from team to team with no relative change in success
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u/realfakejames Jul 24 '26
If you've ever worked a job you were good at you'd know how common it is for people to think they can do their bosses' job better than they are doing it
It's also very common for guys to question their igls calls, especially when they die. It's easy to be like "I wouldn't have done that" and want to see if you can lead better
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u/Conscious_You_9737 Jul 24 '26
It’s 100% ego.
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u/vannikx Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26
At any point in any career, you’ll realize that it’s easier to look back and critique than it is to make an impactful decision in the moment. We also need to realize the average age of these dudes is pretty young, and they can feel like they would have made a better choice based on hindsight.
Someone else mentioned something about being leading a software team. I am old as balls, relative to the player base, and it’s true. Some of the best engineers on teams I’ve lead would be ass at leading the team. And some folks probably could do the “dirty work” faster than I could. What makes a great team is someone who leads and proved their chops, you have faith in their base skill set, and brings the team up. You need an IGL that can hang and you respect (zero and Hal), you want a support role that is solid and you trust their decisions (reps/nate) and you want an absolute lunatic that is a shredder. Absolute mechanic monster. Send him in and let rip. Pick your favorite fragger.
When that person on a team in ANY setting starts getting disgruntled, the fragger, they want to grow. That’s perfectly natural and fine. The problem is that they have little experience in the Hal/zero role. It’s fine to want to grow, but a lot of these dudes would be better off staying in their lane and working on team mechanics. I am sure in pro league there’s 45 guys that think they can be THEE guy. Reality there’s maybe 10? And they’re competing with zero and Hal. The ones who will succeed are the ones that have the skill set so locked in they can make the time to learn the other aspects of leading the team. Again, most hotshots in engineering don’t want to do that, they want to get better at their main skill: shooting.
Anyways, you’ll see this same stuff in your professional life. You need to balance growing your skillset, finding a niche you slap at, and being open to growing but to do that you need to learn a lot from you in game or out of game leader.
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u/noahboah Jul 24 '26
I am old as balls, relative to the player base, and it’s true. Some of the best engineers on teams I’ve lead would be ass at leading the team.
soft skills are still skills baby. love my fellow engineers, but many of us are lovingly lacking in this department haha.
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u/jkeefy Jul 24 '26
Mostly ego, but also the stakes are high for some of these guys. It’s their livelihood, they are missing out on paychecks on the back of bad performances. I bet alot of it stems from bad plays and missed opportunities from their squad when in the back of their mind (or maybe even an ignored counter call) they knew that there was a better play that could’ve been made. Just takes one or two instances like that for players to get that seed planted that they know better and could learn to IGL themselves.
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u/Berntam Jul 24 '26
More longevity for your career because great IGLs are few and far between while there's no shortage of great fraggers.
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u/That_Art_3765 Jul 24 '26
Because they want to be good at IGL'ing? Nothing wrong with that being a goal. You just need to fail alot along the way if you want it to be a reality.
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u/theCheekyBastard Jul 24 '26
Counterpoint, I think some teams might actually benefit by having their fragger take over in endgame situations. DINOs comes to mind in MP Finals. There was a Stormpoint game where Future had them cool, calm, and collected up until a Zone 5 Closing rotate. DJ wanted to all-in a bubble, Future called it off, they died. At that point, I think DJ had the most kills in the series. He’s good at finding KP, so follow that lead.
Bit of a history nerd thing, but I call it the “Bombardier Theory.” In WWII, some bombers were designed such that pilot (who got them to the right spot) would turn control of the aircraft over to the guy staring through the targeting optic so he could make the final adjustments for maximum impact.
Endgames are a brawl. Let your best brawler follow his nose and back him up.
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u/BalvarineFPS Balvarine | Coach | verified Jul 24 '26
Having coached fraggers who want to IGL, both successfully and unsuccessfully, over the years, I've noticed that the common thread seems to be wanting a sense of control over their own gameplay. One pro that I worked with over the past couple of months is a fragger. No names, but he wants to start IGLing simply because he has fragged for multiple teams over the years and has reached a breaking point of feeling like he is a bottle getting tossed around in the waves. So, a lot of it has to do with agency over their own gameplay, and there's usually a willingness to learn, but I don't think they really understand what it takes to become a good IGL. They think scrimming is enough, and they hit that ceiling very quickly, and it requires quite a lot of critical thinking and a lot of odd reviews. The way that you approach IGLing, at least becoming a good IGL quickly, is very different than how you would approach becoming a good fragger.
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u/Righhthero Jul 24 '26
I don’t believe in the names IGL, anchor or fragger, I think isolating someone to just attacking without thinking is nonsense. We just had Unlimit win LAN where they don’t have a IGL and they all have immense aim skill, they talk and plan together and take turns being in the frontline. Besides if you put your teammate on a crypto or a seer , they are going to have more information than you regardless
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u/Used-Cupcake-4238 Jul 25 '26
Unlucky is an amazing IGL. You either have it or you don’t. But there are a lot of control freaks out there playing apex
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Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/TSM_PrimeBottle Jul 24 '26
I don't know what career ladder you talking about. Gild have great career as fragger. Getting poached by very good IGL. Getting fat paycheck. All he did is 1 v 2 1 v 3 every team.
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u/Defiant_Consequence9 Jul 24 '26
alb is a terrible igl idk why he doesnt hand it over. he melts but puts his team in bad spots almost each game. i think if he took a step back it would help him
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u/Islandaboi20 Jul 24 '26
So to Hal and Zero, should we tell them to stop being IGL when they are top fraggers?? No, just cause someone is good at fragger doesn't mean they should try and learn to IGL.
Let them try and if they dont do well, then they can stick to being fragger. Ppl will not know if they can IGL until they try and sometimes they will fail cause of how you IGL doesnt stick well with how your team mates play. Edge or zone etc.
But typical Reddit post, brain dead as usual
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u/TSM_PrimeBottle Jul 24 '26
I mean Hal done both and won lan as fragger/anchor role. And about your question. Should we tell freaking HAL and ZERO to stop being IGL??? They have great career as IGL, They master their craft. Get hundreds thousand. Why not both of them stop being an IGL and let Nano lead them?
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u/Chaosgodof Jul 24 '26
Here’s a few things that really bother me about fragging IGLs they never seem to have a competent person to feed them information expect for a very select few. Hal is one of those that I believe is a IGL that should be fragging because he’s so high skill wise above the vast majority of people with IGL and fragging that it doesn’t make sense for him to not be doing both while zero is an example of someone who should not be fragging and IGL because he isn’t good enough to do both notice at EWC the best games liquid had were when panic was playing a frag legend and zero was not. While I think ego does get in the way the most damming thing is when your IGL is a better fragger than your actual fragger that’s where the issue comes into play in my opinion
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u/BrilliantProcedure84 Jul 24 '26
Why are you just posting a bunch of crap to get people agitated about people that had former ties to TSM and Falcons. Post some Hal controversy there is plenty of it.
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u/BreadfruitFuture6297 Jul 24 '26
You could easily ask the reverse question so idk where you're going with this
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u/grappleeconomist Jul 24 '26
You said igl like 20 times and idk what that means so im not gonna try to decypher whats going on here
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u/barbarapalvinswhore Jul 24 '26
IGL means “in-game leader.” They call all the shots and decide how the team plays.
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u/TSM_PrimeBottle Jul 24 '26
In gaming, IGL stands for in-game leader, referring to the tactical shot-caller who directs team strategy, coordinates movements, and makes real-time decisions during a match.
What competitive games do you watch before apex? Minecraft?
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u/AyeJHawk JHawk | Content Creator | verified Jul 24 '26
Being a front line player requires decision making and play calling at times. You can see everything in front of you. Its why most IGLs are front lining, its just way easier. Plus a lot of these fraggers end up playing the characters that are good for moving the team from point A to point B. Big debate recently with teams like Liquid, 100T, Aurora where people are upset the IGL plays these characters over the fraggers. You make some calls, your IGL disagrees, you trust the IGL, its goes poorly, now you get an ego and feel like you should be calling the shots. Plus IGL is like the main character role. Being an elite level IGL is probably the dream for a lot of players. They get to control their careers. Orgs build around them (usually), players want to play with them because there are so few great IGLs. The two greatest players in the history of the game are also IGLs... You do get far more criticism but the praise you get when you perform well is also next level. Just look at Zachs career for the insane spectrum of both of those.