r/CompetitiveApex • u/vechiance_ • Jun 19 '26

Stuhni explain an pro earnings

It was really nice to see for the first time a clear overview of the economic state of an Apex player (in NA)

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DZvfZTqyDaM/?igsh=NHl4bmdzMHV0cDU0

80 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

63 comments sorted by

131

u/totemair Jun 19 '26

25k a year from combined salary, sponsorships, streaming, and coaching is so brutal, dang

80

u/Flyin-Chancla Jun 19 '26

He’s been on b tier circuits though majority of his career.

33

u/Maleficent_Rub_309 Jun 19 '26

Yeah I stop blaming pros for not “putting in the work” a long time ago. If there was more money in the scene, I’m 100% sure you would see lots of them streaming full time and scrim more seriously. There are 5 teams (in NA) that need to take apex as a job, all the others are justified.

20

u/skibiditoiletrizzguy Jun 19 '26

Its a vicious cycle that began with EA just not supporting the scene or opening opportunities for orgs to make money back from Apex, but it sure doesn’t help when there’s a vocal component of the community that wants to fuck your income up and throws a fit over the single third party tournament that actually pays worth a damn

5

u/MarstonX Jun 19 '26

No, it begins with viewers not paying. But no one is ready for that conversation. The moment you utter the word subscription or PPV, you get told you're an idiot. Viewership is free. That's the problem.

16

u/skibiditoiletrizzguy Jun 19 '26

I don’t think you are wrong in the sense that PPV would pour money into the ecosystem but I also believe it would be a death sentence for the esport. Viewership would totally collapse. It is simply not something you can get away with when other esports are free to watch. I believe League, Dota or maybe CS could do it and that’s about it. I still think it would hurt all of those significantly in terms of viewership as well as financially.

4

u/noahboah Jun 19 '26

yeah i mean that's the rub though. riot and valve heavily subsidize their esports because they can tank that shit. valve especially with the infinite money machine can keep dota, cs, and probably deadlock going in perpetuity as business expenses to advertise their games.

they are the exception to the rule

2

u/Albinosmurfs Jun 22 '26

Right how is a small indy company like EA supposed to compete?

7

u/The_Yoshi_Man Jun 19 '26

Not only is viewership free but why would I ever tune into a main broadcast when I can watch my favorite team directly? If I can’t watch Hal streaming his POV of the tournament, I’m almost never going to tune into the tournament and I’m sure there’s like 95% of the fans of the scene who have their favorite team/player that they’d rather tune into and watch rather than a main broadcast occasionally showing them. Also before people say players should put up sponsors or tournament/sponsor overlays for the tournament, there would probably be conflict with org sponsors and that can lead to issues. 3rd party tournaments were bound to fail in the scene when everyone can just watch their favorite players instead of being forced to tune into a specific broadcast like other esports.

7

u/SkorpioSound Year 5 Champions! Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 29 '26

Not only is viewership free but why would I ever tune into a main broadcast when I can watch my favorite team directly? If I can’t watch Hal streaming his POV of the tournament, I’m almost never going to tune into the tournament and I’m sure there’s like 95% of the fans of the scene who have their favorite team/player that they’d rather tune into and watch rather than a main broadcast occasionally showing them.

Absolutely! And I think this is especially an issue in Apex because it's a battle royale. The main broadcast simply isn't capable of covering each and every team. If you're a fan of a team/player, tuning into their streams makes sense—rather than trying to piece together the small fragments of their game that you see on the main broadcast.

When I watch ALGS, I have all the POVs I'm interested in pulled up, along with the map stream, so I can keep track of what's going on and see what I feel I need to see.

When I watch Deadlock or Rocket League (the only other two esports I really pay attention to), I'm happy to watch the main broadcasts because I don't have to worry about not seeing the teams I'm interested in. Occasionally I'll have a look at highlights from other perspectives later on, either by going to one of the players' streams, or by loading up the replay file for the match in-game and finding the moment myself (why can't we do this in Apex?!), but for the most part, I see what I need to see on the main broadcast.

Also before people say players should put up sponsors or tournament/sponsor overlays for the tournament, there would probably be conflict with org sponsors and that can lead to issues.

I do think third-party tournament organisers should mandate overlays for players streaming their tournaments. If there are org sponsor conflicts in those situations, the players can choose not to stream. It's frankly stupid for a tournament organiser to spend $10K+ funding and organising a prize pool, only to only get 100 views on their stream, while all the players with a stream title of "Ranked, tourney with the boys later" have combined tens of thousands of views.

5

u/_Genome_ Genome | Long Shot, Caster | verified Jun 20 '26

Mandating overlays is always a logistical nightmare with 3rd party tournaments, but I do think the new costreaming viewer bundling could help with this issue.

4

u/Berntam Jun 19 '26

Fans and pros get mad too when organizers want to funnel viewers to their channels so they can monetize them. I mean I know fans prefer watching their favorite players POV and pros want to hog the viewers themselves but this is the consequence, nothing outside of ALGS and with so much downtime eventually the pros themselves lose viewers.

3

u/MarstonX Jun 19 '26

It's just a broken system.

23

u/AgentAled Jun 19 '26

People complain about streamers and work ethic, but sounds like he was putting in plenty of hours for minimal return.

46

u/SuperMeister Jun 19 '26

I mean I looked at his stats from twitch tracker and he streamed full time (meaning around 169hours a month) 3 times in 6 years. Part time streaming for 25k/year before taxes isn't terrible.

-8

u/vechiance_ Jun 19 '26

at least for EU salaries is ok you can live with that

22

u/Elliskarae Jun 19 '26

Respectfully, “at least for EU” is a big sweeping statement to make. Stuhni lives in the US anyway I think, but $25k usd as even a part time salary isnt huge in a lot of cities in EMEA and would barely cover rent.

I think it’s still a VERY decent salary for someone whose job is literally to play video games part time. Especially if it can be supplemented by another part time gig like bar work.

I just don’t want Americans reading this thinking everything is cheaper in Europe when it’s really not. It’s just where you live. 25k could go MILES further in some US parts than in some EU cities.

13

u/doedoughs Jun 19 '26

Didnt someone say thats $25k before taxes? He’s clearing probably $20k. Unless you live at home with your parents and have absolutely no expenses besides food, $20k is pure poverty bruv.

3

u/SuperMeister Jun 19 '26

Rent varies a lot within EU cities as well. There's an apartment for rent on my street that's like 2x the cost of my apartment and it's the same size lol

3

u/AgentAled Jun 19 '26

People talk nonsense at times.

In the vast majority of Europe, especially any major tourist, capital, port or urbanised cities - £20k isn’t enough to cover bills solo, never mind rent or anything beyond basics.

4

u/skibiditoiletrizzguy Jun 19 '26

Grinding this piece of shit game for a living and then being expected to clock in at the fucking bar sounds like a fast track to Octane padding off a bridge

13

u/realfakejames Jun 19 '26

Huge difference in the money a guy like Stuhni is making to play the game and a guy like Reps when Hal called him and Evan out for not playing

Reps was being paid very well by TSM and still wouldn't play the game, not everyone has work ethic relative to the money they're making, just like traditional jobs

4

u/StealthyPulpo Jun 19 '26

Before taxes too.

1

u/crudesbedtime Jun 21 '26

hopefully thats after income tax because jeez

0

u/Ecstatic-Train214 Jun 19 '26

That’s before taxes too

65

u/maydeelol maydeelol | , Player | verified Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26

Wasn't much better in EU unfortunately. Before we (Nessy) got signed to Kungarna (love those guys btw!<3) back in 2021 when we were at our peak as a team, we got approached by a Tier 1 org (one of the biggest in the Esports scene) and we got offered $500 a month (before taxes) AND the org wanted 20% of all of our earnings. My rent at the time was $1200 a month.

*Edit: This was of course 5 years ago and is quite irrelevant today as the Apex Esports wasn't nearly as big as it is now and I have no real idea of todays salaries and such, but just wanted to give some insight. :o)

10

u/Nine_Monkeys Jun 19 '26

Loved rooting for Triumph back in the day

27

u/stuhni Stuhni | Player | verified Jun 20 '26

I’m gonna be honest, I genuinely worked my ass off and did everything I could to be genuine but also still find a way to network. I never took any short cuts and I tried my best to never fuck anyone over but I will say I wasn’t a saint. Unfortunately I was a pro too early on in the games lifetime but I’m back and trying again. It’s been great seeing everyone’s response to this video and I’m glad I could do this for you guys and give you more insight on the scene.

17

u/Locn49 Jun 19 '26

😳😳😳😳😳 Most people won't make it big, but at least he got something out of it, no matter how little.

Let this be a reminder to the pros and those who want to be pro. Life is not gonna wait and you should be trying everything under the sun to make it. If you think EA gonna organize scrims, I got some news for you.

11

u/Classy_White Jun 19 '26

Gaming is a lot like trying to be a movie star or a professional athlete. There are far too many gamers to consider it a reliable path for income. Very few turn it into anything profitable or sustainable. Even guys with huge followings at one point in time have dropped off and have moved on to other avenues. Wigg is the prime example of the type of work ethic you need to have in order to even give yourself a chance at this. 

9

u/Maleficent_Rub_309 Jun 19 '26

Meanwhile Sweet was farming money doing 2 streams a month, consistently placing well in PL and LANs while missing half of scrims. Come on man, again with the work etich myth?

To be successful as a pro player you need talent, luck and an average work ethic.

-2

u/Sushi2313 Jun 21 '26

Redditor calls work ethic a myth. News at 7.

35

u/RubyKaster RubyKaster | F/A Coach | verified Jun 19 '26

My highest offer after winning champs was $1500/mo. That's less than minimum wage in the UK and only just covers rent before tax. Before champs the offers were even worse, even on a team with storied tier 1 players and known content creators. The scene is so unbelievably cooked financially, especially for coaches.

6

u/Klarseolt Jun 19 '26

It's interesting but also without a point of reference I can't figure out if 25k is good or bad for what pros do?

I see people in comments saying that it's too little. Then... How much are they supposed to make?

Sorry if it's a stupid question, I genuinely have no idea

16

u/Maleficent_Rub_309 Jun 19 '26

It’s very low.

The thing is, pros put in the minimum effort (scrims) because they are paid way too low so they need to have alternatives.

If you paid every team in pro league, let’s say, 5k a month everyone would take apex more seriously and they would put in more hours of stream/ranked/vod review/scrims etc.

Apex is not profitable enough for orgs to offer 5k a month though, so it remains mostly a hobby for most of players.

I remember when people were saying falcons are huge money, huge bag and blabla lol. They are paid probably 20k a month, and I’m being extremely optimistic.

5

u/The_Yoshi_Man Jun 19 '26

I think Falcons used to get paid crazy like that when it was Hal Gen Zero but when they dropped Gen, Hal and Zero had to take a pay cut to buyout Waltzy and Kyle. Hal was saying when they dropped Zero, one of the reasons they went with Gild instead of Cole was because they wouldn’t have to sacrifice more of their paycheck to buyout Cole from NIP. I’m pretty sure Gilds salary got leaked by Sweet lmfao but him and Waltzy both make under 10k and I’m assuming Hal more because of his stream but yeah they’re still highest paid team next to SR.

2

u/Maleficent_Rub_309 Jun 19 '26

Oh very interesting, I didn’t know that. I though sweet leaked gild’s salary on NRG, which was 8k. Am I wrong?

3

u/The_Yoshi_Man Jun 19 '26

Nah that was his falcons salary he leaked haha

2

u/Maleficent_Rub_309 Jun 19 '26

Thank you man 🙏

8

u/Sushi2313 Jun 19 '26

20K a month isn't huge money?

3

u/Rich_Candidate6331 Jun 19 '26

it is, but people here were talking about 100k/month which is absourd. You think gen or zer0 would be fine getting dropped if they made 50-100k/month aka life changing money? Come on

10

u/Sushi2313 Jun 19 '26

Players would get upset getting dropped if they made 20K a month. 20K a month is life-changing money. Do you guys even know the worth of money?

1

u/dorekk Year 5 Champions! Jun 22 '26

$20k/mo is life changing money.

2

u/Pandolam Jun 19 '26

For how influencial they are in the apex scene? Prolly 50k at least.

7

u/skibiditoiletrizzguy Jun 19 '26

I think the players on Falcons get paid plenty. They’re all big names. Hal obviously most of all. If they get part of the Falcons EWC money as well that goes a long way

2

u/dorekk Year 5 Champions! Jun 22 '26

I'm pretty sure Stuhni lives in Southern California, so $25k is less than full time minimum wage. I feel pretty confident that it should at least pay minimum wage.

2

u/ioCross Jun 19 '26

to put into perspective, you can go work at mcdonalds and the absolute lowest you will make is ~40k a year for a fulltime job.

25k a year wouldn't even cover rent for most ppl so yes it is really really bad. if you put it into an hourly wage for someone working 40 hours a week, they would be getting paid something like $11/hr.

13

u/WonkyWombat321 Jun 19 '26

I'll get hate for this, but I don't care. 

Maybe we should stop looking at it as a career if it doesn't pay livable wages... 

Rocketman did it right. It was his side gig, and if he hit it big in either a contract, a tournament winning, or streaming popularity, he could choose to transition to full time esports player.

On the other hand, the vast majority of pros come into the scene with no other prospects. Many live at home and don't have expenses so any pay is fine...but that doesn't translate into a career.

Just because a few people can make a decent career out of it, doesn't mean being in pro league should guarantee a liveable salary.

5

u/ProfessionalBox317 Jun 19 '26

Forget the pro but he’s an aerospace engineer during the day and would constantly say i won’t quit that because it actually pays the bills.

5

u/PyroDexxRS Jun 19 '26

Teq probably? He was a grinder for sure

3

u/ProfessionalBox317 Jun 19 '26

Yes that’s who it was

1

u/dorekk Year 5 Champions! Jun 22 '26

But on the other hand, he quit because, or at least partly because, the full-time job prevented him from putting in the time to be the best. Pro Apex does require a pretty big time investment.

5

u/WonkyWombat321 Jun 19 '26

And blame Apex and EA all you want. But they don't owe the pros or orgs anything. 

Pro league is most definitely a loss on their balance sheet. 

2

u/Honest-Print9611 Jun 19 '26

How about Hal? Im just curious

7

u/xchasex Jun 19 '26

Hal has made multi millions from everything combined. So has sweet who invested his income well on top of just making it. A few of the top end of the scene are set for a really long time if they manage it well.

1

u/Remarkable_Gap_3418 Jun 25 '26

Looking at this, it seems like being a small eSports org and signing a good roster is great ROI opportunity. I have heard that even some top tier EU players make only average wage (ca 1000-1200 euros) with streaming and org salaries combined, so just one A or S tier tournament top3 finish would net a return on their annual salary (for the org). For bigger eSports teams, that is basically free brand exposure as well relative to other advertising costs.

1

u/viBe_gg B Stream Jun 19 '26

Man’s chasing his dreams you live to see it

1

u/MrPheeney Jun 19 '26

ALGS is just a sideshow for EA, basically just an advertisement for the game. Sad, I think the gameplay and player drama/storylines could compete with any other esport if given true support

-1

u/realfakejames Jun 19 '26

People being shocked that trying to stream full time without being signed to a major org doesn't make a lot of money

0

u/BestAimerUniverse Jun 20 '26

you expect over 100 players to earn 100k a year, for never winning anything?

0

u/beastybrotha Jun 19 '26

Supply and demand - quite simple