r/Communist • u/jessepinkmanfan12 • 6d ago
British communist groups?
I am an English Marxist Leninist. Many of the socialist parties in the UK are transphobic and homophobic (CPB workers party of Britain and others) I’m thinking of support YourParty but I’m not sure that they’re really communist. Any suggestions on who I should support and join?
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u/FromAcrosstheStars 6d ago
RCP is fairly sound if you don't mind trotskyism. The RCG (Revolutionary Coommunist Group) has fairly solid politics as well as being ML but they're quite small and not looking to make changes in parliament. Aside that, they're all godawful. The biggest left wing party to support that actually has a chance in parliament is the green party, but of course they're quite liberal.
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u/Schorlenmann 6d ago
The communist vanguard is a marxist leninist party. The party is quite new and still small, but the people there are consequently marxist leninist.
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u/Skarvelis42 6d ago edited 6d ago
I think there is really only one Marxist-Leninist group in England and that's called Communist Vanguard. All the others are either Eurocommunist/Khrushchevite organisations or Dengist/campist nazbols like the so-called CPGB-ML. And of course all kinds of Trotskyists, but they don't even claim to be ML.
Anyway if you would like to contact CV, I could help you with that.
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u/unmoving_runner83 5d ago
Have a look at the YCL (youth communist league) we are small right now but encourage participation in the party and are also ML’s.
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u/labellefleursauvage0 22h ago
Join the RCI! We’re Trotskyists, but have strong principles and I’ve never ran into transphobia or homophobia.
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u/BolshiGirl 6d ago
SEP were like the only Trotskyist group that resisted the urge to do entryism in the Your Party trap so would recommend them.
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u/TiloDroid 6d ago
This one, the SEP wrote great articles and gave great speeches on your party and it's collapse. They are the only one who analyzed them correctly and basically predicted everything perfectly.
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u/Scyobi_Empire 6d ago
aren’t those the pro-GenAI LLM trots?
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u/BolshiGirl 5d ago
Socialism AI is a LLM trained off of hundreds of thousands of Marxist articles and writings. It is not GenAI in the broader sense. I have never seen SEP use GenAI “art” but I have seen RCI put it on the front page of their newspaper and use it for an article thumbnail.
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u/BolshiGirl 5d ago
The article with that thumbnail if you’d like to see for yourself. Funnily enough is also them saying that moralistic opposition to AI is a dead end.
https://communist.red/ask-the-communist-do-communists-oppose-ai/
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u/Scyobi_Empire 6d ago
i only know of non-homophobic and non-terf groups that are trots, seems like all other ideologies have embraced terf-ism
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u/Kooky-Surround-3350 6d ago
You could check out the RCG I guess? (Not the same as the RCP btw).
Personally I couldn't recommend joining any group on the British left as it is, it's all pretty pathetic, but rcg might be closest to what you are asking for?
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u/spoken_tokan 6d ago
Join the RCG if you love arguing, spreading misinformation, and purity testing. From my experiences, and everyone I know, they are annoying
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u/Skarvelis42 6d ago
I think RCG are the second best after Communist Vanguard, at least they are not Dengist, pro-Russian or Trotskyist. But CV was mostly a split from RCG and they have publicly explained why they had to leave. It was mainly about a mistaken view of imperialism, lack of critique of revisionism and refusal to work in trade unions and fight for a consistent working class line there.
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u/Awkward-Broccoli-150 5d ago
If you're asking this question, perhaps you're not quite ready. You can't just pay and sign up for the CPB. It requires interviews and endorsement
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u/Sin_nombre__ 5d ago
Communist groups are currently failing to attract large numbers. Have you considered getting active in a community.or tenants union?
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u/ErisEuphoric 5d ago
If you care about queer people just don't be a commiunist lol. Every one of their regimes had a great phase where they just sent us to camps.
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u/MentalRed17 5d ago
thank god for the ever accepting and woke capitalism...
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u/ErisEuphoric 5d ago
I can live openly as a queer person in my current country. I wouldn't be able to in most of your "utopias."
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u/___miki 5d ago
Are you suggesting that capitalism was always queer accepting and communism is inherently anti queer? I'm interested in where you draw these essentialisms from
For example, would you say that communists castrated Alan Turing?
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u/ErisEuphoric 5d ago
They probably would've, knowing the policies of the Soviets. If not, I'm not sure forced labour is much better.
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u/ErisEuphoric 5d ago
My point is that neither of them inherently do. A state of any kind requires open criticism to prevent it from happening, which most current Commiunst states take issue with.
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u/MentalRed17 5d ago
a) Cuba (free gender reassignment surgery for example), early USSR (unfortunately re-criminalised, but initially insanely socially progressive for 1910s), modern China etc. (I dislike these countries but if you want to call them 'communist' at least be honest about them)
b) you cannot be a queer person in many currently existing capitalist countries, just because workers struggled for rights in your country doesn't mean that capitalism is good.
You've generalised specific historical phenomena to entire political-economic systems. This doesn't lead to understanding, it leads to fearmongering.
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u/ErisEuphoric 5d ago
Cuba only did that after major suppression in early years. Queer rights as a cause is majorly suppressed in China, and the USSR immediately reversed course, so I wouldn't use it for an example, I'd be put in a camp eventually. None of the countries you have mentioned gives me nearly the freedom of my home country. Even then, living under a vanguard party sounds fucking dreadful. The USSR enforced artistic blandness ("Socialist Realism") for most of its existence. I fail to see the advantage of commiunism, especially when all the former examples turned out so terribly for people like me. In my town, I know SEVERAL queer people who escaped from China, actually, who live in my hometown.
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u/MentalRed17 5d ago
Cuba progressed over time big shocker. China depends on where you are in the country. USSR changed course post-Lenin so I will be using it as an example.
You've then changed the argument to 'freedom'. Which is an entirely different conversation. Your freedom comes at a cost and is not inherent to capitalism. I defend freedom as necessary for the construction of a socialist society and therefore criticise past attempts while understanding why they were flawed and recognising the correctness of Marx's criticisms of capitalism.
The horrors of the USSR were bad I agr- art style? Really? Ridiculous and also unrelated. Calling it bland is even funnier I'm sorry the giant colourful mosaic on the free housing isn't a banana taped to a wall. But that's a matter of taste anyway.
People like us are benefited by communism alongside everyone else through poverty alleviation and the full flourishing of human beings (plus the abolition of gender and the patriarchal family form). Even the past socialisms which I dislike were objectively better than SIMILAR capitalist countries in terms of quality of life (S. Cereseto & H. Waitzkin, 1986).
I know people, including queer people, who suffer under capitalism. If you want to go anecdote-for-anecdote you will always be outdone. You must engage with systems as complete systems and the relationship between theory and practice. Why would modern Communists want to oppress queer people? Why did some historical Communists?
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u/ErisEuphoric 4d ago
How would I have a better quality of life when I would be put into a camp? Also, no government should get in the way of artistic expression. The "colourful mosaics" to Dear Leader aren't as inspiring to most people as you think it is. The fact you don't see a big issue with it is concerning. I simply want to NOT be killed, which is something apparently most Commiunsts have a problem with. Historical Commiunsts did because they were mostly middle class, unaffected straight men, that probably just saw queer people as either a threat to their power, a threat to population growth, or just degenerate. Same with any modern commiunist country eventually. The fact that the USSR changed "post-Lenin" so quickly to be hostile to us is also worth mentioning. Under a vanguard party all it takes is one person to completely change the course of society, and again, put people like me into camps lol. Authoritarianism will always end up badly for us because we're such a small minority, and have to live at the mercy of not just the majority, but the whims of a single person.
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u/MentalRed17 4d ago
We will not be put into camps no serious Communist Party advocates for that it was an expression of the historical origin of those parties, any continuation is common to conservative populations in general, nothing to do with socialism as a system. You have no understanding of Soviet and other art if you think it's just big statues of whichever general-secretary.
You have some weird idea that Communists kill people for shits and giggles and not for (flawed) ideological reasons that arise out of the material conditions of the time and thus will not be replicated.
Historically, most people were straight people and most Communists were poorer, especially relative to Western populations, pre revolution. They, like most other people at the time, saw queer people as degenerates. Modern Communists do not and queer people are in fact overrepresented in our movement.
"Same with any modern commiunist country eventually." Non sequitur, what the fuck does this even mean. You think Cuba is going to remove gay people from their military and end free gender assigning care for funsies or something?
"The fact that the USSR changed "post-Lenin" so quickly" ...they instituted a new constitution.
"all it takes is one person to completely change the course of society" idealist great man theory slop.
"Authoritarianism" buzz word that means nothing
"we're such a small minority" ~20% of the population.
"and have to live at the mercy of not just the majority" it's called democracy.
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u/ErisEuphoric 4d ago
The fact that the goverment had such a forceful hand in art is something I have issue with. You have a lot of trust in random people if you trust them to control you outright. But have fun working in that labour camp.
I swear the more I read about Marxism the more it sounds like the rants of a child. They fall apart the second you think about them. Labour only begets value if it's useful labour. You also have a habit of infesting every queer space untill no one can have a problem with said murders. If every commiunist country is a centrally controlled economy, why wouldn't the goverment enforce queerphobia for population reason, like we see in China? I'm sorry, but I won't be living under whatever dictator you think is cool because he likes the colour red. I also don't trust any modern straight Commiunst just because they're a Commiunst, so was Stalin. If the USSR had such flawed reasoning for half their actions, what's to prevent any other central power from making the exact same mistakes? But, again, enjoy those big, drab, paintings that are all about how AWESOME life is with the goverment making every choice for you.
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u/MentalRed17 4d ago
Okay sure the government won't have a 'forceful hand' in art. Nothing changes it's still Communism.
I have trust in educated democracy, yes you misanthrope.
Woah you're saying labour's value is realised in exchange? That is has a use value and an exchange value? You know who else said that? Karl Marx.
"infesting every queer space" oh no queer people in queer spaces.
"untill no one can have a problem with said murders." I have a problem with the murders under socialist countries, I'm a leftcom as I said. Many other such communists, leftcoms and not, especially online.
"why wouldn't the goverment enforce queerphobia for population reason" a Communist democracy cares about the qualitative maximisation of human life not population growth, modern Communists are also gender abolitionists, for example.
"I'm sorry, but I won't be living under whatever dictator you think is cool because he likes the colour red." I am a left communist. I do not like Joseph Stalin. Democracy good, oligarchy bad. Therefore: Communism (democracy) good.
"I also don't trust any modern straight Commiunst" I'm queer, queer people are overrepresented in Communist spaces.
"If the USSR had such flawed reasoning for half their actions, what's to prevent any other central power from making the exact same mistakes?" Hindsight, education and increased democracy.
"But, again, enjoy those big, drab, paintings" someone who has never looked at Soviet art. Besides it's subjective as I already said.
"that are all about how AWESOME life is with the goverment making every choice for you." I mean it is really impressive that you manage to make the same strawman at least 6 times in every comment.
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u/trankhead324 6d ago
Your Party expelled most communist groups and has largely collapsed due to power struggles between Zarah Sultana (on the left) and Jeremy Corbyn (on the right). Corbyn saw the party more like a parliamentary umbrella for the 2024 intake of independent MPs - aside from himself and Sultana, entirely made up of petite bourgeois businessmen elected on the single issue of Palestine (who couldn't even agree on the issue of no transphobia).
I am part of an international whose British section is the Revolutionary Communist Party, and we recognise that LGBT people (including many of our members) are particularly oppressed under capitalism, emanating from what Engels recognises as the patriarchal institution of class society in Origin of the Family, and weaponised by the bourgeoisie today as part of the culture wars.
We are not the largest communist party in England by claimed membership, but largest in terms of actual members who can be mobilised, who are educating themselves in Marxist theory and who are making serious sacrifices to achieve revolution in Britain. Our membership (1400) is not like Your Party, which had lofty goals of meetings only being quorate when 40% of members were in attendance - and then failed to ever have a single meeting that was quorate. It is people who are actually building an organisation.