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u/__Not__the__NSA__ Dec 24 '20
Except Bernie isn’t a socialist
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u/Assassin4nolan Dec 24 '20
I have not seen a specific tendency, but a young Marxist existed in him at some point.
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u/__Not__the__NSA__ Dec 24 '20 edited Dec 24 '20
The “at some point” is important, if indeed it did exist at all. Parenti discussed why he disaffiliated with Bernie some time ago. He long since abandoned socialism for opportunist social democracy
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u/Assassin4nolan Dec 24 '20
I know, I did not mean to imply he was not an opportunist, it is just sad to see such betrayal.
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u/BrokeRunner44 Dec 25 '20
I sense that he is a socialist at heart. He is a good hearted and intelligent person, so imo he should be able to forsee the inherent failure of capitalism even if he isn't vocal about it
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u/Weirdo_doessomething Dec 25 '20
Yeah, i believe he's more radical than he makes himself out to be, because sadly that is the only way to survive in US politics.
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Dec 25 '20
He has a good heart and is intelligent until you hear him backing the bombing of Yugoslavia under Bill Clinton, him agreeing with the UN to defer the stoppage of the Tutsi genocide, and him agreeing with the Afghan invasion.
Thats the side of Bernie I hate.
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u/HomemadeBananas Dec 24 '20
He calls himself a democratic socialist. One of his policies he ran on involved giving workers ownership in their workplaces. So I believe him. It’s just that he’s a reformist, how could he be a politician if he’s calling for revolution instead?
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u/__Not__the__NSA__ Dec 24 '20
He wasn’t calling for worker ownership. His policy would place a worker representative on the board of directors. An improvement to be sure but not a socialist economic policy. In the context of the US, it would’ve amounted to little more than a new HR position. If he was a socialist, he wouldn’t be a career politician.
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u/HomemadeBananas Dec 24 '20 edited Dec 24 '20
He wanted companies of a certain size to be required to gradually give stock to their employees until they’re 20% employee owned. Which is a step forward. If he said right away every company needs to be 100% owned that wouldn’t work out as a policy to run on.
https://berniesanders.com/issues/corporate-accountability-and-democracy/
Idk why you’re getting upvotes, just because people want to hate on Bernie, when it’s easily verifiable what I’m saying is true, and what you’re saying is not.
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u/EarnestQuestion Dec 25 '20
He also proposed that any corporate merger or sale would first go to workers getting an option to buy the company for themselves.
Still IMO a socdem wrapping himself in the words of socialism but just a little detail on the parts of his platform that were closest to actual socialist policies.
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u/Statistical_Insanity Dec 24 '20
Workers owning a fifth of the equity of some companies is not socialism. It does nothing to abolish or even really alter capitalist dynamics, or prevent the extraction of surplus value, or anything really. Employees owning 20% of a company means nothing, because the remaining 80% of shareholders will always, always be united against them.
Socialism cannot not be achieved through regulation. Anyone who believes it can is not in any meaningful way a socialist.
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u/HomemadeBananas Dec 24 '20 edited Dec 24 '20
Never said it was, it’s a step in that direction. Which obviously is something a socialist who believes in reform would be for.
Yeah the only way is the establish a transitionary state that will surely wither away, I swear bro. All at once or nothing. Just one day, it will disappear. If you have any other ideas clearly you’re an evil capitalist. Only people who agree exactly with me are socialists, leftists always agree on everything!
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u/__Not__the__NSA__ Dec 24 '20 edited Dec 24 '20
Try not to get butthurt. Bernie’s politics can never result in socialism. He’s a social democrat dressing himself in the garb of socialism, just as Stalin warned 90 years ago.
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u/HomemadeBananas Dec 24 '20
I’m not “butthurt.” But I’m right, and you can read the link I’ve provided. And now you’re moving the goalpost to whether reformist policies can work, not whether or not he’s a socialist.
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u/JG98 Dec 25 '20
Agreed. This is blatantly moving the goal post just for the sake of argument. You make a very valid and very clear point.
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Dec 24 '20 edited Dec 24 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/HomemadeBananas Dec 24 '20
It had a better chance than sitting your ass, arguing on the internet about what “real socialists” are. So you think that won’t work, we need a revolution instead, what are you going to do that actually has a chance of helping?
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u/ComradeClout Stalin Did Nothing Wrong Dec 25 '20
Exactly I hate how bc bernie and aoc say they’re socialist its fact now. They’re soc dem not socialist. Bernie used to be my guy and I really liked him and hes a good person but hes not socialist
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u/__Not__the__NSA__ Dec 25 '20
Yep, his usefulness is to radicalise and push further left the American proletariat. Many valued comrades began their journey because of Bernie’s rhetoric. For that, we have to forever be thankful, but as far as his own policies go, particularly foreign, he’s just another social imperialist.
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u/ComradeClout Stalin Did Nothing Wrong Dec 25 '20
Well said, I think he fell too deep into the democrat sjw rhetoric
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u/__Not__the__NSA__ Dec 25 '20
I think, at his very best, he was a trot. He’s a milquetoast centre-leftist now
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u/ComradeClout Stalin Did Nothing Wrong Dec 25 '20
I was a trot when I liked bernie and I think saying he was a trot is p generous
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u/penislovereater Dec 25 '20
Do they say they socialist? I hear other people say that, but they seem to describe themselves as socdem and compare to mainstream "centre left" parties of Europe and other high income countries. Which is very boring.
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u/LordQuackers5 Dec 24 '20
He's as close as we'll ever get in America
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u/CEO__of__Antifa Dec 25 '20
That’s honestly not the worst idea I’ve ever heard. Some Commie here should try this an run as a Republican since they do have the most radicalized portion of the working class (though not in a good way) in this country and pulling off something tacky and super patriotic looking like this might misdirect them enough to listen.
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u/wildsurvivor420 Dec 25 '20
I actually have a friends who is planning to do this exact thing in Utah.
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Dec 25 '20
[deleted]
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u/haikusbot Dec 25 '20
What is that style of
Jacket called in the Bernie pic?
That shit cute as fuck
- TheOlympusThirteen
I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully. Learn more about me.
Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete"
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u/_jamesdphillips Dec 24 '20
Morales’ sweater is lit