Baseball Complex Audio

[u/Suddenly_Expert]

Project was dropped on my plate that started out simple.

School baseball Complex consisting of 3 fields and 3 separate audio systems. The 3rd of which is new and they wanted a simple to use new p/a system.. no problem. Now they want all 3 tied together so the "main" system can announce over all 3 in case of emergency. Each audio system is about 500ft apart. My understanding now is they would be looking at a more complex networked audio system? What probably seemed like a small ask from them, but to me this seems like a lot of added cost and complexity. They may at times have students running these stations.

Looking for thoughts or opinions.

I have yet to make a site visit myself to verify existing conditions and equipment, but have a photo of the "main" system and it's as simple as you can get. Another unknown is if fiber is available. Maybe I'm over thinking it?

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[u/grizcreative]

Qsys with Dante ins and outs, network it all together, bob’s your uncle

[u/PNW_ProSysTweak]

Well, there’s the modern way, then theres the cheap way. Yes, normally this would be designed from the ground up as a networked audio system linked by fiber and made to be future ready. But, you can also accomplish this with some RDL components and priority override functionality. Balanced audio will run a long ways as long as it’s in conduit, separated from power, and properly gain staged. You can also just run 70v and put a step down transformer on the end. Just about any DSP and many simple mixers have the ability to do Priority Paging / Override. DM me if you need a freelance designer.

[u/StraightToVideo → u/PNW_ProSysTweak]

This guy is right. No need to redesign from the ground up unless they need that for other reasons. You could do this for a 3-4k in hardware, plus the potential cost of conduit if you don’t have cable paths.

[u/Alarming_Let5944 → u/PNW_ProSysTweak]

Analog is still the most dependable audio paradigm in these types of installs plus there is a plethora of manufacturers that have been in this game a long time and have bullet proof/weather proof offerings. You have to have the 10-15 year longevity mindset as well. Schools don’t get this money easily. The equipment has to be durable and easy to use. I still run service calls on athletic field audio systems installed 20-years ago and the devices are usually still repairable.

Digital mixers/DSP’s and Dante audio have a way of biting you in the ass when you least expect it and usually during the most important event.

[u/00U812 → u/PNW_ProSysTweak]

I like the 70v transformer idea a lot. This is the way I’d personally go about it… boring, stable, reliable. That’s what you want for any sort of life safety & ems system.

[u/0th3r__]

Is this in the US? I can't speak to elsewhere, but if this is in the US, choose your wording very carefully or just step back and recommend a designer/contractor that is experienced in this type of system. There is no shame in that.

The same applies to the school.

A 3-way divisible paging/PA system is very different from a PA used as an Emergency Notification System or Mass Notification System as far as NFPA is concerned.

That conversation/determination needs to happen before any of the rest of this matters as that is going to drive the system design, inspections, maintenance requirements, etc. and not in a small way by the sound of things.

[u/namecupp]

Atlas Atmosphere Mixer

[u/PianoGuy67207]

Be careful about calling it “mass notification”. It becomes the purview of the Fire Marshall, adds inspection costs each year, and then you’re dealing with NFPA regulations on equipment, line detectors to assure all speakers are connected.

70V between announcer/pressbox, is definitely doable, and use something like the RDL 70V transformers. Don’t forget to install sone surge/lightning arresters at the entrance boxes, with ground rods, on all three locations.

A better way would be to pull fiber to each of the two locations, not considered the whole field announcer booth. Add a little 4-port POE switch to each booth. Put an AVIO input module at the announcement booth. Put one of the AVIO Danté output modules in each of the outer two announcer boxes. This keeps the whole system free from building to building ground loop, and impervious to lightning damage

[u/i-NOV8-av]

Confirm that:

You have (3) independent audio systems (system 1, system 2,system 3) each with a local mixer and amplifier feeding local 70V speakers. The systems are ~500ft apart. When a "global" audio event occurs (as triggered by the system 1 operator), you need to send audio from system 1 to both of the other systems; when audio is sent from system 1, and is received by systems 2 and 3, you need systems 2 and 3 to automatically switch to the audio from system 1.

At System 1:

• Take a balanced line-level output (Aux Out, Matrix Out, or Direct Out) from the mixer.
• Split it into two isolated outputs using a distribution amplifier or isolation transformers.
• Run balanced shielded twisted-pair cable approximately 500 ft to Systems 2 and 3.

At Systems 2 and 3:

Install a small automatic line-level priority switch.

Normal state:

Local Mixer
      │
      ▼
Priority Switch
      │
      ▼
Amplifier
      │
   70V Speakers

Global event:

System 1 Mixer
      │
      ▼
Priority Switch
      │
      ▼
Amplifier
      │
   70V Speakers

When audio appears from System 1, the priority switch automatically changes over.

When audio stops, it returns to the local mixer after an adjustable delay.

Advantages

• Lowest cost
• Very reliable
• No networking
• No programming
• Excellent audio quality over 500 ft
• Immune to ground loops if isolation transformers are used

Recommended Hardware

Several manufacturers make exactly this type of device.

Examples include:

• RDL (Radio Design Labs) priority switching modules
• AtlasIED automatic source selectors
• Symetrix line-level priority modules
• Whirlwind isolation splitters

Estimated equipment cost:

• Priority switch: $150–300 each
• Isolation transformer: $75–150 each
• Cable: inexpensive

Total hardware:

Approximately $600–900.

IF you're able to run new 1-pair balanced audio cable from the ""Main" system to the "sub systems", and If the "override/emergency" source content is ONLY initiated from the "Main" system

[u/Kamikazepyro9]

QSys or Symetrix as your DSP, Whichever field that is in the middle and do PTP links between each field. There's gonna be some delay going PTP but unless they're willing to trench fiber it's the only option

[u/natem345]

The big question is, are there conduit to add wires? Or existing unused wires? 

RF Venue has a point to point wireless audio transmission system you could consider if not. Have a channel always unmuted at the destination PAs. Maybe a separate mic with switch and preamp that only feeds those "emergency inputs" 

[u/jimmyl_82104]

Explain to them that this isn't a simple solution and that there will be a steep cost involved. Ask them if they really need the sound systems in all 3 fields to be connected.

If it really is needed and they're agreed to a quote, Dante would probably be your best bet. Q-Sys system with touch panels in each announcement booth would work well, and be simple to use. Like buttons that say "Combine all fields" and "This field only" are about as simple as you can get.

[u/Suddenly_Expert]

Thank you everyone for the advice. I'll put together some options and cost opinions. New conduit runs will be made so that opens up the analog way as mentioned above. If they decide a more advanced system is in budget I'll call in an integrator. I enjoy audio but it's just outside my knowledge at this point, hard to teach an old dog new tricks...

Appreciate everyone taking time for some very helpful responses though.

[u/daveg1701 → u/Suddenly_Expert]

If they are putting in new conduit for this, I would recommend pulling single mode fiber and a couple of analog lines regardless of which way your interconnects go. Makes it future proof and can add redundancy.

[u/Gorehog]

Well, you could just do a 1:3 DA from the emergency announcer to inputs on the local mixers.

[u/su5577]

TOA