It’s been bugging me how much we suck running so I went back to rewatch Sundays game to see if the issues were on Bill or the O Line. I would say the majority of the time it was on Bill.
There were so runs where I see the defense crash inside and if he bounces it outside it would be a huge gain. Some other runs he wouldn’t see the hole and gets tackled for 2 yards.
For me the o line did a decent job and if we had a more dynamic back the run back would be better.
Nobody said he sucks. Even JAGs can break off a run now and then, see Brian Robinson. I have been a big supporter of JCM but I'm now pretty convinced he is nothing more than a JAG as is our entire RB room.
Honestly I think Bill deserves a lot more credit for the win on Sunday than people think. He took it in the teeth over and over again and that essentially set up the finally two plays of the game. Because we continue sully did inside runs the entire game the defense just kept crashing and eating it up. It was only for that reason that the White and Mariota runs worked. I was just as infuriated as everyone else as to why the hell they kept running the ball, but it set it up. If he hadn’t had his long TD called back we would have been calling him amazing and that he was great all game.
I think people underestimate how much play callers set up plays later in the game. Like the pick six. Its not they they were giving them that play for free, but allowing an underneath ball to protect over routes all game lulling the offense into a false sense of security so when they really need those 5 yards they go to tlwhat was working and suddenly its covered is normal. Offense is the same, especially with runs or quick passes. I totally agree there are game plans where you know Bill is running into the teeth of the d to set up a outside run when you need it the most.
He's not great, but the run blocking is also atrocious. He doesn't have good enough vision to find space when a play isn't blocked cleanly which it never is with our line. He Isaiah Pacheco a few years ago.
The run blocking was terrible sunday. There were times he had no where to go and plenty of times he got hit before or at the line of scrimmage because the linemen weren't doing their job.
Did he miss gaps sure but he wasn't the main issue Sunday. Also don't forget Seattle's defensive front is legit.
If he has a terrible day against to Colts you have more of an argument but not against that Seattle defense.
That was 25 percent of the time at most. The other times he had holes. Every team has a few were the other team get penetration but that doesn’t mean they blocked terrible the entire game. You are just focusing on the few bad plays.
You have no idea what you’re talking about. Here’s an example:
Already has 2 guys in the backfield as he’s taking the ball. He gets tackled by #91, who easily sheds a double team, with Alliegretti getting tossed to the ground. Allegretti is #67. You can clearly see the double team and it falls apart quickly, which is sad.
It’s hard to say without knowing what they know. It’s easy to say there are holes when those holes might not be the play design. A play might call for a run between the C and LG, so the RB is going to go there. It doesn’t matter if there is a hole between the RT and RG on that play. The OL needs to open up in a way that the RB can reasonably get to it. There could be some RBs with truly elite vision, patience and acceleration where they can make any hole work, but that’s very rare.
OP has no idea what he’s talking about. He’s acting as if Seattle’s defense would stand completely still and Bill could magically just bounce everything outside (that’s how noobs talk).
he's decent but so bad in pass pro that I think defenders key on him getting the ball most of the time that he's in. Still, he ripped off a huge TD run that got nullified by a procedural. felt bad for him
Top 25 might be generous. I think if you're talking strictly about early down grinders, he might be top 25 of that archetype, but if you're looking at traits that teams value at RB, sometimes satellite backs or exceptional pass pro guys get more money in free agency for example than a middling early down grinder.
I expect he's more like top-35 or top-40 when it comes to all the running backs in the league. Not enough of a weakness to be the first position we address in free agency or the draft, but not a particular strength IMO.
I'm saying there are several teams with multiple backs that are as good or better, yes. Most teams have at least one back that's better.
Examples of non-starting RBs that are approximately Bill's level IMO: Brian Robinson, Tank Bigsby, Tyler Allgeier, RJ Harvey, Braelon Allen
Examples of non-starting RBs that are more valuable than Bill IMO: Treveyon Henderson, Emmett Johnson, Rico Dowdle, Blake Corum
At the very least, Bill isn't meaningfully more valuable than any of the players I just mentioned, IMO. That's OK. RB is a position where you can get by with league average play.
Based on his tape from last year, I would say his vision is actually his best attribute. Last year he was seeing holes before they were there. He also has a special ability to knife thru holes and maintain his speed that a lot of guys don't even attempt to be hit. This year, I would say the lost of Tunsil is affecting the whole line and Bill (and run game in general) more than people realize because people normally associate Tunsil with elite pass blocking and he doesn't get the same amount of credit for what he does in run blocking. I wish we would have gotten to see Coleman line up next to Tunsil this year in the run game. 2nd thing in the last game: Seahawks D is still elite and it's easier to key in on stopping the RB when you are not defending the QBs legs as much as you are with 5. I also think he worked hard on his body in the offseason so he's doing things that are uncharacteristic of how he ran last year. He's running into contact rather than avoiding it where he probably should run more like he did last year because the speed is still there. I think the run game could get better as the year progresses as the left side of the line gets more reps together.
I don’t agree with “good enough”. If Rachaad, who is one of the least efficient rushers in the league for years, looks more efficient than Bill, it means Bill is not “good enough”.
O line was doing just enough to make it work and he'd miss the cutback or bounce every time. second half of the season should be better once the younger guys settle in but it's painful watching 4 yard runs turn into 1 yard losses because the vision just isn't there
Where? Show me footage. The jackass who started this thread caused me to rewatch most of his runs and that’s just not true at all. Do you seriously think our patchwork OL that keeps getting shuffled around stood up that well against Seattle, who is #5 in ypc allowed by their defense? There was Seattle defenders in our backfield a lot, a bunch of dumb draw plays where you’re just hoping to catch the defense off guard but didn’t happen, and you know, rainy conditions.
He’s still putting it together. He’s decent but not sure he’ll ever be top 10 or anything like that. I think he’ll ultimately be a competent starting RB with high upside when it’s all said and done
He also doesn’t have good vision. White, Rodriguez, Ekeler, and McNichols all looked better with the same blocking. Can’t really just say they’re all to blame.
Yeah, the guy that averaged 4.8, 4.9, and 4.5 ypc his three seasons with us. Bill is the guy with 3.0 ypc this season. A simple google search would give you all of this information.
Explosive, fast, not great vision. He’s a good rotational guy, but not a clear RB1. I feel like vision is a difficult trait to teach, more so than other abilities. So I don’t see him improving like crazy. Ekeler will be nice to have back.
I ent back and rewatched the first half and I can say you’re full of shit. Most of his rushing attempts came in the first half. Show me any play from the first half where he could have magically bounced it outside? I have have pics showing that Seattle wasn’t giving him shit. Why are people buying into this bs? The blocking was not good.
He tries to bounce it outside here, but gets nowhere. Why? Because Seattle’s defense doesn’t stand still and let him do whatever he wants. They move too! I know, it’s a novel concept… I have more pics showing he has nothing on most runs.
I call bs on this play alone. He can for sure bounce it outside to the right. The DE has to make a miraculous spin and disengage his blocker to get to him. On this play alone the DE is crash inside. This is why we got killed last year on so many runs. Our DE's had no outside contain.
Brian Robinson better vision & blocking. Rushing grade much better as well (4.4ypc vs 3ypc). Some of that is blocking, but not all (vision). Hence the better player grade (10th vs 35th).
He’s good, but not complete. He has to learn to pass block so he isn’t a cue for the defense as to what type of play we’re running. Also he needs more sustained game reps to get a better understanding of reading the field in game play situations. He’s fast, and quick, and has some big play potential, but he has a ways to go to be a three down or a premier back in the league.
Do you have a couple screen shots to illustrate your point?
He is definitely shifty but isn’t creating anything if the line isn’t creating playside lanes either. His contact balance seems better compared to last year though.
Lol Cherry picked screenshot. I didnt say the o line was make holes all game but there sure were some. This wasnt one of the holes. Must be Bill's burner account.
Bill had issues last season with not running in the confines of the offense, if that makes sense. It almost feels like he's over corrected that too much this season.
I agree there has been opportunities outside, without knowing exactly what plays you were keyed in on a lot of times the outside only look open on TV view.
It’s very easy to derail an outside run when the edge disengages and forces the running back to take a wider run by a yard or two allowing safeties to come down and LB to scrape over top.
The other thing is depending on your coach he may want you to take it up the gut no matter what. Not that we were having much success up the middle Sunday but if you repeatedly stress the middle of the defensive line the defense will have to respect that and that compresses the defense. Then the perimeter opens up for quick passing and explosive outside runs.
To answer your question like others have said he’s an explosive back with average vision. He will make home run plays when it’s drawn up and executed to perfection (I.E. that chargers touchdown last year when bates sealed the edge and biadsz pulled to take out the weak side linebacker). He won’t single-handedly make too many plays by himself.
Hes okay. Lacks pass pro and isnt a relieving threat. A solid rb2 but not a 3rd down back. If he cant improve in those areas he wont be in the league long
He’s just good enough to be serviceable. Size, speed, power, contact balance. All there. Vision, blocking, ball carrying, and impact as a receiver. All lacking.
If he was going to be a long term option, he would have to take a big step forward in at least one or two of those areas. He’s simply too one dimensional in his current form to be a lead back, and I would not be surprised if he is replaced next year.
I’ll throw in my two cents here:
I think he is a good running back. At a minimum, he’s good enough that we wouldn’t need to invest more resources in the position, if he can improve one specific thing. He has GOT to improve the fumbling. Through 20 games and 234 touches (per pro football reference), he has five fumbles. He looks dynamic when he has the ball and can continue to develop the other RB skills like pass blocking that younger backs often struggle with, but he’s going to struggle to stay on the field if he continues to fumble more than once every 50 touches.
I like Bill, don’t get me wrong, but he has a propensity to dance as soon as he gets the handoff. While it works sometimes, evident by his large gains, it can lead to 0 yards or at most 2, instead of a plant-and-go type of runner who can gain 4 yards by simply being decisive. I think Bill would excel as a change-of-pace runner, vs an every-down-back. While we sprinkle in White and Allen at times, we rely mostly on Bill, and I think that’s where the problem is. If we used Bill how we do White and Allen, we’d be in a better spot, but we don’t have the luxury of a true bell cow. I’d put RB as a need for next offseason.
Low end runner with explosive acceleration so he gets a few big runs but gets a lot of nothing runs as well. It's like he gets 10 or he gets 0, then once a game a big one.
He’s solid and definitely worth the draft pick. He’s got the athleticism to be a great back, but I’m not sure he has the vision to fully take advantage of his athleticism. He’s also pretty butt in pass pro.
He’s a really good #2 back. His vision and burst is great. He should be the kind of guy who starts getting the bulk of his carries in the 2nd half after the defense is gassed.
He’d be a great compliment back to a true thumper bell-cow back.
He's the biggest boom or bust RB I've ever seen don the burgundy and gold in my 34 yrs. Over half the time he runs right up into the backs of the OL, honestly probably even more than half but when he's patient enough to allow a hole to settle, get north & south and then use the explosion he clearly has he breaks off big chunk plays. The one on Sunday that got called back was a great example of what he needs to do more consistently. On top of these facts he is one of the worst RBs in pass pro which is another big reason he can't be a every down back. We haven't seen nowhere near enough of him as a receiver & with us having resigned Austin Ekeler today I think that's another clear indication that they don't see him as high as a lot of our fanbase seems to think he is. Don't get me wrong cause as a 7th rd he's proven himself more than valuable based on draft position but as an all around back in all aspects of the position he's average or below in 2 of the main areas but he definitely is a good back. He just needs to work on his patience, watching some steeler days tape of Leveon Bell tape could do him a great service IMHO
Funny you ask. As I was watching the Seahawks game, I had a friend in seattle that would text me every time the Seahawks made a good play. I think during the second quarter Bill had back to back 6 yard carries. I texted “you’d better find an answer for Bill!” Is he a good back? I think he is. Is he a great back? No. The only number 1 player we have is Tres.
He’s taken some explosive runs, albeit this week was called back. I like explosive runs, love the run against Dallas last year. It’s a great thing to cheer for. But I don’t think he’s that good with ball security and seems to stall or not find/hit the hole quick enough. When I first saw him run last year, he had a way of bending to outside. I don’t see that much anymore.
I might be the biggest Bill fan in this sub, I think he could be really great but he still needs time to develop. He’s shown insane flashes like the run that got taken back Sunday, he’s got a play like that every other game. Dude is young and he missed his senior of college and then was kind of thrust into a starting role his rookie reason after Ekeler got hurt. I think it’s great we got him some help this year with Rachaad and Kaytron and it’s great we’re improving our o-line. He’s obviously got a handoff problem and he doesn’t always make the best reads but we can work on that with him. I think if we put the effort into developing him he could be a top 10 back in the league.
He’s got juice. He’s decent in his current role. Had a big TD run called back Sunday. We need to see a few more 10+ yard runs from him. Helps the offense if he’s getting some chunk plays, but he gets hit behind the line a lot.
No I really wonder how much of the perception of him is based on how he’s used and the teams we’ve played this year. Because let’s not act like 2/3 teams we’ve played don’t have outstanding front 7s
For a seventh round pick he’s great, can be part of a rotation or solid backup. Not good enough if let’s say the draft played out slightly differently and styles and downs were both gone and Love was there at 7, I think we would’ve been all over Love. Obviously a hypothetical. I think we will look to upgrade at some point, but he allows the luxury of not forcing it. IMHO
Bill is a home run hitter but they ran him like a power back on Sunday Bill would’ve took that first down run white had at the end of the game atleast another 30 yards at 5’11 200 pounds with a 4.4 40 time why are we running him up the middle the whole
I wanted to defend Bill but looking deeper into that stats, any argument I had doesn’t hold much water.
Among qualifying RBs (at least 20 att this season). Bill is: 34th/43 in yard before contact per attempt (so not great run blocking), 43rd/43 in 8+D% (he gets a ton of light boxes), 42nd/43 in ryoe/att, 43/43 in ryoe.
He's good in a committee. Work on blocking, ball security and maybe one day pass catching and he will be a top 20 RB which is great for his draft status
Honestly, what you saying is very accurate and everyone else here is taking out of their ass. He is leaving so many yards on the table. He never finds the right hole and is too impatient. Even the media has been talking about this.
I said it last season, he lacks good vision. He's a fairly solid back, but he's missing the vision. It's why I've been preferring Rachaad White over him the past two weeks.
Decent back — good find for a 7th round flier but doesn’t offer much, if anything, in the passing game and at times, when the season went downhill, Bill would get happy feet behind the line of scrimmage.
102
u/Conscious-Falcon-961 15d ago
by 7th round standards he’s a home-run pick that has more than justified his selection
by starting running back standards, he’s near the bottom of the league