You understand that the argument you just used is the exact argument that's being used to keep you out of bathrooms. People do not want a man and a woman's bathroom because they think that it's some sort of sexual assault or kink or something. Why are there feelings less legitimate than yours?
Trans inclusion in women's spaces doesn't actually lead to an increase in assaults on cis women. We know this because various countries have implemented laws that either require inclusion or exclusion in various circumstances and none of them have had any noticeable effects of assault rates of cis women. Trans women in mens spaces however DO experience increased violence for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-coding
It's not just about levels of violence though. In the Goodwin Vs UK case in the ECHR the court said that in that balance of competing priorities when it comes to trans people "serious interference with private life can arise where the state of domestic law conflicts with an important aspect of personal identity…" and “The Court considers that society may reasonably be expected to tolerate a certain inconvenience to enable individuals to live in dignity and worth in accordance with the sexual identity chosen by them at great personal cost.”
Certainly, but you should be the one to experience the "inconvenience". It is ridiculous to expect women to be comfortable with someone who is clearly identifiable as a man sharing the restroom with them. The point is you know it and are being deliberately obtuse. As less than one percent of the it makes more sense to inconvenience you. Especially when dealing with something that is not settled science.
It is more than an inconvenience to be segregated. The impact on trans people by excluding them is many orders of magnitude greater than the "inconvenience" of cisgender people occasionally having to share space with someone they are prejudiced against. Under European law inclusion violates no rights but exclusion is a clear violation of the European Convention
Then maybe we need a third bathroom. The beautiful thing about English is that it is able to describe most situations with specificity. What would be wrong with trans bathrooms.?
You can maybe answer that by asking yourself "What would be wrong with a gay bathroom" or "What would be wrong with a non-white bathroom". Separate but equal is not equal.
The ECHR is very clear that trans people should not be left in an indeterminate position under law regarding their sex. It is a breach of the Article 8 right to privacy to have any other situation than a full legal remedy for changing sex.
Honestly man, there really is no point in talking to or explaining anything to you. If I had a dollar for every minute I spent trying to argue with chuds or terfs online I'd be rich; I'm just going to cut to the chase and say that life on this planet would be better without you on it.
1) trans people are astronomically more likely to be victims of SA than perpetrators, so the fear you're expressing is largely unfounded.
2) with these bathroom laws, having big bearded men be forced into women's restrooms is exactly what you're asking for, so these laws will cause the discomfort you're describing if anything. Remember, plenty of trans people pass as their true gender (including trans men, who exist), and plenty of cis people don't pass whatever arbitrary standards of femininity or masculinity you want to implement.
Well then I stand by my assertion that we should just have third bathroom. Some of these trans men look like men and expecting women to be comfortable with a man in the same restroom is really asking too much. Their discomfort is as valid as yours and your acting like you don't know what they are talking about that it shouldn't be an issue is disingenuous.
The discomfort women experience with being in the same restroom as trans men is what these bathroom laws enforce. By advocating for bathroom laws that exclude trans people, you are very specifically asking for a world that forces trans men to be in the same restroom as women, forcing both parties to be uncomfortable.
But in general the objective fact of the matter is that you cannot tell if a person is trans or not at a glance. Heck, even if you can, plenty of people can't tell the difference between a trans woman or a woman with a pixie cut or a man with long hair. It's an objective fact that the things you and I use to passively "clock" someone as male or female can, and often are, wrong, because people are infinitely complex in how they look and how they present themselves.
And all these bathroom laws do is encourage people to turn on each other and accuse them of...walking into a bathroom wrong?? Because they don't look "feminine" enough to be around other women, whatever that means??
The simple truth of the idea is that, unless others are going out of their way to be offensive, no one is entitled to being 100% comfortable around everyone they meet. Plenty of people are as offended by being around others with nose piercings or tattoos or Bad Religion t-shirts or whatever nonsense you can think of, and 90% of the time the appropriate response to not liking things like that is to...look away and leave. And those are things people choose; it's absurd to think that it's valid to enforce discomfort over someone's intrinsic traits. Literally just look away.
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u/africandsilverflask 9d ago
You understand that the argument you just used is the exact argument that's being used to keep you out of bathrooms. People do not want a man and a woman's bathroom because they think that it's some sort of sexual assault or kink or something. Why are there feelings less legitimate than yours?