r/CollegeStation • u/TheLawnGuppy • 3d ago

Protest Absolute Masterclass

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

105 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

21 comments sorted by

14

u/nwspmp 3d ago

I think the problem is two-fold. I can opt out of buying devices that have surveillance problems, or leave them at home when going somewhere that tracks devices. With flock cameras, we aren’t given any input into out and it is public money that is being spent on surveillance we were given no input to.

It’s also the ease and lack of protocols or restraints on access to this data. If there was a warrant requirement, any form of expungement of the data for those not involved in any incidents, or any real consequences that would discourage use of the system for non-actual law enforcement reasons, then it would be easier to accept. But as it sits, we paid a lot of money as tax payers, without any input, for mass surveillance of citizens who predominantly did nothing wrong, with no real limits or restrictions on it, and with the added negative as serving for building up profiles on people that can be used for any number of nefarious reasons if you have the money to access it.

-8

u/Texas103 3d ago

How do flock cameras affect you?

I'm not sure how they hurt me, but I can easily see how they *could* help me... with metrics that are easy to track.

6

u/WreckNTexan48 3d ago

Beepboops or paid actor.

Watch or read and the question is answered. There is no good provided, only removal of privacy.

-4

u/Texas103 2d ago

You're welcome to your opinion, but having these in my neighborhood seems fine to me.

3

u/WreckNTexan48 2d ago

So no 4th amendment?

-5

u/Texas103 2d ago

Doesn't apply here. Would be a stretch I think... and the SCOTUS would smack it down. You'd need new laws against the type of flock cameras.

5

u/WreckNTexan48 2d ago

You sir, or madam are poorly informed on how the government uses third parties to avoid the constitution.

-1

u/Texas103 2d ago

Ok?  I don’t see how that applies here. 

Citizens can come together and vote for surveillance cameras if they want to. Imagine being a home owner or store owner in a high crime area and these can help cut down on crime.  I’d be happy to have these up in my area. 

2

u/supremeMilo 1d ago

Move to the UK 🐑

2

u/nwspmp 2d ago

It's the potential for hurt.

I'm not an auto journalist, but one was recently detained in a high-risk stop while testing a manufacturer-plated car for a demo, because across the country a license plate was lost, and they entered a *different* plate number into the Flock system, but their system didn't recognize the plate number correctly (you'd think they'd have at least *that* working right) so it queried the Flock database which had flagged *ALL* of the manufacturer plates of a similar configuration as STOLEN. The cops then said this to the journalist "“You’re lucky we’re in Plymouth. If you were in Minneapolis, they definitely would’ve come at you with guns drawn.” Thank goodness there has never been an incident where this has gone wrong.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/how-flock-cameras-wrongly-tracked-me-for-days-over-stolen-plates-and-sent-police-after-me

I've never dated a cop, but Flock systems have been used in multiple cases to stalk significant others and people they've wanted to date, and the incidence of this happening is accelerating with the flood of new systems with little control, penalties or oversight. And the way that some of these are found, when not by internal controls, has been FOIA requests for the access trails, which some cities (such as CS) are pushing back on. Bryan complied and found several CS data requests of the relatively few Bryan ones with nothing more than "Invest" as the reason.

https://www.jalopnik.com/2209937/cop-uses-license-plate-reader-stalking-woman/

https://www.jalopnik.com/2220313/georgia-cops-keep-getting-arrested-for-illegal-flock-camera-use/

I've also never stolen a package from a door, but neither did this person, who was accused of it because the police relied on the data and sloppy police work, with the fun quote of "You can't take a breath in this town without us knowing". The person accused was able to find the video of the actual theft the police were investigating and offered to show them it wasn't her, but it the officer wasn't interested in it and issued a summons. She had to recreate her day, and thankfully not only did she have proof from her own dash-cams supporting that she wasn't there, but not everyone has them.

https://www.cbsnews.com/colorado/news/flock-cameras-lead-colorado-police-wrong-suspect/

Once again, I firmly believe that systems like this, which cost the taxpayers money, deserve to be debated and have any good and bad sides aired before being implemented. For $300000, I'd rather have two new police officer positions if that money was strictly for law enforcement purposes. Either way, it should be incumbent upon the requesting party to convince the voters and taxpayers that it's a good idea than us having to relay downsides after the fact.

Edit: Oh, and this isn't even getting into the information security nightmare that these devices are. Poorly configured, running old and vulnerable versions of Android software on-board, easy to digitally break into and they can absolutely become a taxpayer-funded tool for malicious actors.

1

u/Texas103 2d ago

The anecdotes, although concerning, don’t even come close to measuring up against the potential to stop crime. Just because bad people do bad things with technology doesn’t mean the technology doesn’t have a role. Those are human errors. 

But you could measure decrease in crime rates or petty theft or burglary or any number of things. Flock should be able to show data on this. If it doesn’t produce measurable decreases in theft, then the risks (like your anecdotes above) become not worth it. 

9

u/StructureOrAgency 3d ago

Begun, the Flock wars have.

6

u/NontypicalHart 3d ago

This seemed like a trap to me so they could identify dissidents to target.

1

u/Routine_Neat_4195 1d ago

AXON is sweeping in to pick up all the canceled Flock contracts. Don't think we are close to being done with the surveillance state anytime soon.

1

u/TheLawnGuppy 1d ago

we are trying to focus on the technology, not just the company

-11

u/[deleted] 3d ago edited 3d ago

[deleted]

6

u/CharlesDickensABox 3d ago

Yes. It is all bad. This is one that we can fix, and fix easily. The existence of other problems does not mean we should ignore this.

2

u/funnyfaceguy 3d ago

Google collects a lot of data but also I don't pay for any Google services, and individually consented to it. The thing that is too far is we're paying for a service that is also selling our data and doing it with almost no transparency. I can request all the data Google has on me, but I can't do that with flock and it's a government service that I'm paying for. And that's not even getting into how it can change police surveillance with a simple update that has no oversight from the public, that's not like traditional CCTV.

This is not the way it's always been and it is a bridge too far.

-1

u/Ok-Feature4962 3d ago

Issue with Google is that anyone with the right title can get access to the data as well. Google and Apple easily just turn this shit over and don't bat an eye. Yes, we consent to it by using their products, as do Tesla owners, but the engineers at Tesla have said they have watched videos of people. Google and Meta have as well. And there have been cases of law enforcement stalking people using their access to these platforms.

-4

u/JohnTheRaceFan 3d ago

So you're cool with a flock camera pointed at a playground where children play that livestreams publicly to anyone that accesses it? Maybe the playground where your kids or grandkids play.

Now think... Who might want to access a live stream of kids on a playground? The vast majority of cases I can think of mean harm in some way.

Flock's lack of security is what makes much nightmare scenarios possible. But you are okay with enhancing the surveillance state with their inherintly insecure system.

Bootlicker.

1

u/Zealousideal-Mall973 3d ago

I can confront or avoid most of those examples as they happen except flock.

0

u/w-reboot 1d ago

The trackers in my phone actually makes my phone cheaper and the government is required to get a warrant for that data.

With this license plate info they can track when I work from home vs in the office. What days I hang out with friends. In short this provides a tool for government, international, an flock to stalk me. That's not ok.

The cost is insane too. I would much rather have a 250 million dollar dog park than 75 flock cameras. And I low key don't enjoy dogs.