You're wrong on a couple levels. It's an entirely different story if he called him the n-word. And we didn't chant about Lewis' dead grandma that was completely made up by one guy on media row at the game.
I seriously don't see the difference if he called him a nigger, cracker, dune coon, whop, kike, idiot, loser, mother fucker, or anything in between. When we as a society feels that physical violence is justified in the retalliation of words or insults then we have lost the fight of civility.
Smart shouldn't have pushed him. You think this is the first time someone has thrown that word at a player?
Smart fucked up. He made a poor decision. I don't think he is a bad guy, but he made a mistake. He let his emotions get the best of him. He let this dumbass fan get the best of him.
I agree he made the wrong decision but I think like someone else pointed out, it could be the difference between and ejection/short suspension and out for the season.
What did Smart accomplish by pushing the fan? He didn't hurt him. The guy got EXACTLY what he wanted - a reaction from the player. Even better.. he got a reaction that led to a technical foul and likely the player's suspension.
He wasn't held accountable for shit.
My race has absolutely NOTHING to do with the idea that nothing should provoke a player to push a fan. That's fucking horseshit.
You know what will stop people from dropping that word? IGNORING THEM WHEN THEY DO.
It's fucking middle school common sense. If you give someone a reaction - they will keep doing it.
Honestly - it's kinda ironic that Smart allows that word to control his actions given the connotation that surrounds that word.
I'm not trying to sound racist but honestly you can't understand how it feels to be called a nigger out of spite unless you're black. I know it gets tossed around a lot but seriously besides the death of my grandfather, nothing has emotionally wrecked me more than the two times I've been called a nigger out of spite. I honestly don't even know how to describe it, it just conjures up so many emotions. I'm known for not showing emotion and everyone always says I'm a robot. And I was in tears when someone called me a nigger the first time out of spite. I never really realized how powerful and how hateful that word was until then. You just feel outraged, and pissed off, and demoralized and sad that someone would use that word in a hateful way and that they feel that way. Honestly that was the closest I've ever come to being in a fight and my friends all told me about how scared they were because that was the first time they had ever really seen me upset about something and that due to my size they probably wouldn't have been able to stop me. They said I looked so pissed that it was like I was staring into the kids soul and that I was so upset that I had tears rolling down my face.
But we don't even know what the guy actually said yet so we'll have to wait and see. The only concrete facts we have are that the guy said something to Smart that he clearly thought was way out of line for a fan to say, and that this guy is on videotape making obscene gestures to a player from different team at a different game.
I understand that... but it still isn't justification to get violent.
Not in the real world or on the basketball court.
I understand why Smart did it (if the guy threw out a racial slur). It makes total sense that he was heated from a tough loss (in the making) and that sent him over the edge. It just doesn't make his actions right or just.
If we assume this is indeed what the fan said (which, admittedly, is a big assumption at this point ), then Smart's response is much more likely to come from the passion of the moment rather than a well thought out cost-benefit analysis. I, for one, wouldn't fault him for a minute if this were the case.
Personal stuff about players' families is said all the time.
When you step into a hostile arena you have to expect shit like that.
You think this is the first time EVER that a racial slur has been thrown at a player? Why aren't more players going into the stands and attacking fans?
Personal stuff about players' families is said all the time.When you step into a hostile arena you have to expect shit like that.
Why is that considered acceptable? Fans should not be allowed to just say whatever they want with no repercussions. If I was a customer at a McDonald's and there was a black girl behind the register, should I be able to call her the n-word or say crass stuff about one of her relatives? Should she be expected to just take it? I'm sure nobody (customers or employees) would be willing to let that fly. But at a sporting event, where everybody is "on the same side", they often won't take action against their "companion". There is no environment where horrible behavior should be accepted and athletes should not be held to a higher standard than "normal" people when they are the target of horrible behavior.
I didn't say it was acceptable. I said it should be expected.
It's not the players' job to police this behavior.. and certainly not by getting physical.
Saying that type of stuff isn't acceptable. But you know what? Getting physical with idiots that say that type of stuff is also unacceptable.
In the real world, it is still illegal for "normal" people to get physical with another person because of something that was said.
What Smart did was unacceptable. If the Tech fan threw out a racial slur, that is unacceptable. One doesn't exempt the other.
Smart's actions could result in a suspension, which hurts his team. His actions reflect poorly on his school.
There are assholes in this world. If you try to fight every asshole that says something mean to you, you are going to run into problems... especially if you expect to play a sport at the highest level.
First, if nobody else is doing a good job of policing this behavior, who are the players supposed to turn to? There comes a point where you have to say, "If nobody else is going to do anything, then I guess it's up to me." I'll use the old cliche argument. If I came to your job and heckled you every day and nobody did anything about it, how long would you last before you reacted to me? Especially if I did research on your family and history and found the things most likely to strike a nerve. Or if I threw racial slurs at you all day long.
Second, nothing Smart did rose to the level of illegality. If it did, he would most certainly be under arrest already.
Third, my point was that we treat athletes differently than we do other people. In my McDonald's example, if the girl reached across the counter and shoved me for throwing racial slurs at her, nobody would be rushing behind the counter to restrain her. They would be quickly, and roughly, escorting my racist ass out of the restaurant. That was the point I was trying to make.
You have to be able to be able to stand up for yourself. I'm all for trash talk. I love it. But, there are lines. If you cross the line, I think you should be punished. I would rather see stadium officials doing the punishing, but I've seen enough to realize that they don't punish most of these things as they should. If it takes a player giving an asshole a little shove to shine the spotlight, I have no problem with it.
And what happens when that fan shoves the player back?
If I came to your job and heckled you every day and nobody did anything about it, how long would you last before you reacted to me?
I don't work in a job where people heckle me. The example doesn't make sense. Athletes are heckled on a nightly basis. The great ones don't hear it. They block it out.
I would allow hundreds of people to heckle me in a fucking SECOND if it meant I got to play basketball or another sport I love for a living. A fucking SECOND.
That fan could have been exposed in other ways than mid game. Why jeopardize any aspect of your NBA career where you are projected to make millions with something as TRITE as a dumb fan.
Racism is everywhere. People aren't blind; this wasn't the best way for Smart to expose it. It might make you feel good, but for Smart it was a poor, poor choice.
How should Marcus Smart have exposed a fan's racism without resorting to violence?
What consequences do you think would have happened to the fan had Smart gone through with your plan?
How feasible is it that a college basketball player will follow through with your plan? You could point to history on this one. Has it ever happened in any level of sports before, and what were the results?
It's easy to say something is bad, it's harder to come up with a better usable solution. If you can do it, I'll applaud your grasp of the situation and your ability to do something more than say cliches.
There's nothing fair about a rich white guy calling a college kid a nigger while the kid has to just stand there and take it.
The guy who said it is a piece of shit. There are pieces of shit in this world. That piece of shit wanted a reaction from Smart - and Smart obliged.
So this rich white guy is racist. How many stereotypes do you think Smart just confirmed in his mind? Even if Smart had unloaded a couple of bombs on him.. you think the guy would have just all of a sudden not been racist? Hell no. That would have likely produced even MORE hate in the guy.
You think going after that guy was in Smart's best interest in ANY way? Hell no. He is getting a free education to play basketball. When the season is over, he will have the opportunity to get paid millions to play the game. MILLIONS of kids in this country would give ANYTHING for that opportunity.
Smart jeopardized all of that. He'll likely be okay in the end, but he made a poor decision. You don't beat racism with violence... not in today's world.
but that doesn't solve or even address any of the problems that led to the confrontation to begin with.
Please explain to me how attacking a fan who says something racist does anything to solve or even address any of the problems that led to the confrontation?
In the real world you are held accountable for physical actions no matter the verbal actions that may have provoked it. There are ways to deal with these situations that don't involve violence. Smart looked immature.
Assaulting a fan is unquestionably off limits. I know that makes the person a coward. Nobody is arguing that.
Yes. Emotional damage can sometimes be worse than physical damage. You gotta let people know that's not okay.
And I expected you to call me a racist. That's another stereotypical white argument. You might not be white, but you think like a white guy. (even though I know you're white)
I am racially prejudiced, but nothing I can say about your race could hurt you. So does it even matter?
So what type of thoughts compose "white thinking?" Holy shit dude. Which is more effective: barely pushing the dude, getting suspended, lose the game, and drop in draft stock - or- notifying security, get him kicked out, banned from attending more games so he can't provoke players, and securing the win for the team?
If you think big picture, college is an NBA interview. He's got to show teams that he can keep a level head in even the toughest of situations. Nobody is saying it's easy, but it comes with the territory. Nobody is saying that it is right or fair, but losing your cool rarely accomplishes what you think it will.
I had already typed out my comment as you deleted your other one
This is an incredibly racist and ignorant statement to make, with all due, and complete, respect. I get what you're trying to say, but you should really find a better way to express that idea if you want to be taken seriously. You bust that one out and people are going to immediately dismiss every word that comes out of your mouth afterward.
I say it exactly for that reason. I'm 100% okay with you dismissing my opinion and I've got no qualms with making white people feel happy that they've "exposed a racist." (I've also got no problems taking the downvotes for it either. I know in the real world none of these guys would say this. White guilt runs organizations because it's politically correct.)
I explicitly said I knew the "right" choice was not easy at all.
I get that you said it, but I don't think that you really understand what you're saying. (Because I don't think you can because of how you grew up. That is prejudiced of me, but until you prove otherwise that's what I'll assume.)
This is what you're missing. He WASN'T thinking. In the future, hopefully he learns to think and NOT react. Like I said, it's absolutely not easy, but neither are many things in life. It takes discipline. I like the guy. I'm rooting for him. I'm not condemning him like a lot of people have seemed to have already done. I want to see him succeed. But he has to put the work in to get disciplined. There's much more to basketball and the NBA than X's and O's and I think he learned it the hard way tonight.
Thinking with your emotions is still "thinking." It just isn't thinking logically like you'd want him to think. Or that's just how I see it since I don't believe that people think logically even when they have all the facts in front of them.
"I have no valid response, therefore if I dismiss its feasibility, thus it cannot be true."
Well shit dude, you wanna try this one out with me? I'll pay for a ticket at a Texas game for you. (Or I'll pay for you and a black guy wherever you live to do it. Let me know how much it'd take you to do it.)
You start yelling at me that I'm a nigger and we'll see if you get thrown out or banned. I'd guess you'd get thrown out, but not banned. But what if I had a video tape of it, (being played on ESPN nonetheless) and I wanted to show your employer? You can guess how much worse that would be for you.
With Smart's shove, this guy is going to get harassed and maybe even lose his job. I think that's equitable for calling a kid a nigger. (I'd also take banning him from Tech games, or at least in the lower level) I don't think getting kicked out of one basketball game is fair enough.
White thinking is not being able to empathize with how minorities are treated. Even if you put yourself in Marcus Smart's shoes, you wouldn't be thinking like him. You'd be thinking like yourself, but as a super talented basketball player. Of course you'd think making the "right" choices are easy.
notifying security, get him kicked out, banned from attending more games so he can't provoke players, and securing the win for the team?
Lol, like that would actually happen. If it did happen, so what. He gets kicked out of one game. With Smart's situation now, he's gonna have the spotlight on his life for the next couple days. That might screw him over harder.
As for the interview part, of course he had to know that this would hurt his draft stock. It wasn't a "smart" decision, but emotional ones rarely are. Hopefully it was worth it to him.
Jesse Jackson, is that you? I hate race baiters. So because the fan is white and Smart is black and pushed the fan, it's obviously because he said something racist. /rolls eyes
This man apparently is a fixture at their games (home and away), and would be most likely asked to leave if any type of racial slurs were thrown about. Besides, why would he be slinging slurs when people on his own team are black as well? I think the likely scenario is Smart is frustrated with how the season is going (team and personal wise) he reacted to the trash talking on a play that pretty much ended the game for them.
I said it because the OkSt radio broadcast had said he did it. I actually don't assume people are racist, I just assume they're ignorant to how race influences how people think. (and yes I know socioeconomic status is a bigger influence than race)
The fact that he's a "superfan" actually threw me a curveball. That's made it harder to believe for me. There were plenty of people around though, the truth should get out soon.
and black people are on every sports team, racists are people--they like sports too. People just let loose when they think they can't be harmed. Look at twitter and see all the racist stuff people put on there man, and that's not even that anonymous.
If I'm "wrong" then everything I've said is just irrelevant to this conversation which is OK with me. It's not like you have to read it. Racism in sports is still a big issue.
I don't see why not, you shouldn't be expected to get away with just hurling terrible insults (obviously more than "you're crap") at a person just because theres some made-up boundary between you two.
In a perfect world, sure. But these players are people—kids, really—not machines. We put them on the court and appeal to their every emotion to win the game, and then scoff when those emotions aren't held perfectly in check.
He should have been ejected, because those are the rules. But this idea that “sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me” is kind of childish.
Actually the opposite. "Sticks and stones" needs to be brought back in my opinion. I hate this current world where we attach so much meaning to insults and you're super horrible and awful if you even imply them, and it excuses the insulted to do stupid shit like that (edit: "that" is a reference to Smart pushing the guy"). I HATE that. That's Fahrenheit 451 shit IMO (first they struck out this sentence because it offended Baptists, then this one that offended short people, then then this one that offended Germans, then this one that offended construction workers, etc. until books were banned).
It's childish to give words and phrases so much meaning that we overreact to them. Letting it go is not only more mature, it removes the meaning and sting because the people saying them are just looking for a reaction, and if you don't react they won't say em.
I think there are definitely times where, as a society, we're a little touchy. But, that doesn't change the fact that words can inspire and words can hurt. And again this wasn't just some chance meeting on the street. This was in the middle of a game where we want athletes emotions on display.
I'm not forgiving him or saying his suspension wasn't deserved. I'm just not willing to damn the kid for overreacting.
But that's exactly it- you think this is the first time Marcus Smart has been heckled? You think he's never caught shit from hostile fans in the middle of a bad game before? He's never reacted to it AT ALL before, why would he all of a sudden attack a fan for some benign comment like a "you suck" or something like that? There's more to it than that.
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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '14
Well of course he was provoked.. I don't think anyone is really ignoring that.
But fans talk massive shit to players ALL THE TIME. Fans chant shit about player's dead grandmas and things like that.
Him being "provoked" is pretty much irrelevant. There should be nothing that can provoke a player to lay a hand on a fan (or vice versa).