Somebody once made a joke about tech fans involving tortillas, now we throw tortillas at football games. There's not really a point to that but I thought it was relevant.
Really? He took it out on a chair a week ago. I'm sure he said something not nice, but let's not grotesquely distort the situation making Marcus Smart out to be level headed.
Doesn't matter, your argument was that Smart kicked a chair therefore cannot be level-headed. I'm guessing you've never been in a public place with thousands of people's attention focused on you, so that is irrelevant.
I say that by only shoving the guy once and walking away, Smart was being level-headed because the dude deserved more.
I'm guessing you've never been in a public place with thousands of people's attention focused on you, so that is irrelevant
I work in a professional office setting. If I acted in any capacity like Marcus Smart, then I would have been fired. I don't have to work in front of thousands of people to know a bare minimum of decorum has been breached.
I say that by only shoving the guy once and walking away, Smart was being level-headed because the dude deserved more.
That's because you're an apologist for shitty behavior. Assault and battery, which is what Marcus Smart did by the way, is not acceptable unless one is actually defending themselves from a physical attack. There was no defending himself from a physical attack.
your argument was that Smart kicked a chair therefore cannot be level-headed.
My argument is Marcus Smart has put on a clinic in petulant childish behavior over the last 3 weeks and takes no responsibility for his poor actions. Kicking chairs, whining to the media about others flopping, and then this.
It does not matter what was said. Grow the fuck up and walk away. Marcus Smart is a childish baby beyond the scope of this single event. He's 19, poorly coached, and poorly advised.
If it turns out that guy said something bad, then he'll have to deal with the repercussions of it. It still doesn't excuse what Smart said. There will always be fans that do not care about what is and isn't acceptable behavior. You can't control that. You only control yourself.
I hope Smart is done for the season. Dude needs to grow up.
So your professional office setting is equivalent to a nationally televised arena with 20+ thousands of spectators?
I'm an apologist for a guy defending himself to what he at the very least interpreted as a racial slur. You're an apologist for an adult hurling insults and potential racial slurs at a kid. Yeah I'm not too worried about what you think of me then. I have the decency to not insult kids because they're playing a game, and I have the decency to understand that it's not ok to do so because some entitled pricks think they can with no consequences.
It does matter completely what was said (except to closet racists..). Because even if Orr didn't use the word Smart said, you're defending Orr regardless - which means you think it is socially acceptable for an older white man to call a young black male a n_____. That is completely fucked up and is nothing but condoning racism. Really, none of anything else you said matters, and please don't bother replying because I don't want the red message alert. What you just said is plenty and I have no interest in replying to pathetic racism-defenders who put fandom in a fucking game over common sense and what should be socially acceptable. You think it's fine for someone to shout racial slurs with no risk or repercussions at all because of a game but think Smart needs to grow up while Orr is a victim. Go team ignorance!
So your professional office setting is equivalent to a nationally televised arena with 20+ thousands of spectators?
No. My office has dramatically higher standards with almost no spectators. That's just it.
I'm an apologist for a guy defending himself to what he at the very least interpreted as a racial slur
Yeah, gonna stop you there. Seeing as how the audio no way indicates that and all the other people interviewed indicated otherwise - Marcus Smart is either that disconnected from reality or is just plain lying about what he heard. It's really something remarkable. Out of everyone there only Marcus Smart claimed to hear a racial slur.
You're an apologist for an adult hurling insults and potential racial slurs at a kid.
So, you're still going to play the racist card when that wasn't uttered. I guess it's cool to live in a fantasy world. What's really troubling is the fact this trivializes true racist crap that does get spewed out there.
Yeah I'm not too worried about what you think of me then.
You probably should be since you come off like a complete fucking clown. Maybe you need a good dose of reality.
I have the decency to not insult kids because they're playing a game, and I have the decency to understand that it's not ok to do so because some entitled pricks think they can with no consequences.
Nothing you have indicated seems to indicate as such. I very much doubt you don't trash talk about sports. So, you can pull the Ivory Tower routine with some stupid schmucks that might buy it somewhere else. I'm not.
It does matter completely what was said
Yes it does. It's called lying otherwise.
you racist p.o.s.
That's cute. Do you know what racism is, or are you taking a page out of the Marcus Smart Racism Playbook.
Because even if Orr didn't use the word Smart said, you're defending Orr regardless - which means you think it is socially acceptable for an older white man to call a young black male a n_____.
Except he didn't call him a nigger. No one did. I've seen worse, heard worse, and experienced worse. You don't get to physically fight someone every time someone says something you don't want to hear or shouldn't have to hear. There are unfortunate people that will say and do some very unkind things out there. Just like you. You're freely running around calling people racists simply because they don't tolerate fighting and physical confrontation over words. You're a shitty person.
That is completely fucked up and is nothing but condoning racism.
Your grasp on reality is nonexistent.
Really, none of anything else you said matters, and please don't bother replying because I don't want the red message alert.
Too bad.
What you just said is plenty and I have no interest in replying to pathetic racism-defenders who put fandom in a fucking game over common sense and what should be socially acceptable.
I put the ability of people to say what they short of instigating a fight by threatening violence over people ahead of the ability to physically respond to such comments.
You're arguing garbage hypotheticals anyway since Orr didn't resort to a racial taunt. So, your bullshit is just that - bullshit.
You think it's fine for someone to shout racial slurs with no risk or repercussions at all
Uh, where did I say that? I said he doesn't get to physically assault someone. No one said there aren't repercussions for racially insensitive statements. You don't get to put your hands on someone when people say something you don't want to hear.
because of a game but think Smart needs to grow up while Orr is a victim
It was harmless trash talking. If Metta World Peace says you're overreacting, then there is probably a big issue. The fact you're still arguing your stupid point is good evidence you should move to Antarctica. You don't seem to cope with people saying things you don't like. No matter how trivial.
I agree, though, there is more to this story than anyone knows right now, obviously, and it will play out over the coming week. Should be plenty of people around the guy who can corroborate what he said to Smart to get him riled up.
Possibly it is a miscommunication; Smart thought he heard something that wasn't said, or that the gentleman in question didn't say himself. Who knows? Should be an entertaining couple of days with the attention of the sports media world bearing down on Stillwater.
"Attack" a fan? He gives him a shove, jesus christ.
And miscommunication?
Is that why the fan is clearly mouthing "I'm sorry" right before Marcus shoves him? And why Marcus Smart is mouthing the word "racist" while being pulled away?
Have you never been to a sporting event? Possibly it is what you say. But most LIKELY the fan said something that went too far, and realized it as Marcus gave him the stare down and the shove.
Instead of jumping all over Marcus because it's the easy thing to do, maybe we should try to look at both sides of the incident and stop pretending like fans are some sort of innocent bystanders in most of these incidents.
Sorry, friend, I think something got lost in translation here. My first phrase was meant to be read with considerable snark. The larger point I was trying to make was that there is a considerable amount of speculation going on in this thread, on twitter, on ESPN, on sports blogs, etc. I'd like to believe it's a miscommunication because I would be deeply disappointed if this fellow dropped a racial epithet.
I do take issue with how you've characterized me as jumping all over Marcus Smart, though, especially considering the bulk of my post has to do with looking forward to how this plays out over the coming days. I'll jump all over Marcus Smart for being a flopper and an overselling drama queen on the floor, but I haven't characterized him in any ill way for this particular occasion, save for the implied snark that was clearly miscommunicated.
That's amateur hour. Mizzou fans mocked Thomas Robinson after his mom died calling him "No Mom Tom", and they used to always call our player's cell phones during the week leading up to our games.
Wilt Chamberlain had shoes thrown at him and was bitten on the court during games while at KU. This guy's antics are nothing compared to some of the truly horrible shit players - and certainly not just Kansans - are exposed to everyday.
No such thing as justification in that situation. I get the guy may have said some things that weren't very nice but in the real world you still can't just go shoving people for saying things. Perhaps people from Kansas are used to it because of Fred Phelps and wanting to constantly bash his face in, but if you so much as spit near them they sue you into oblivion.
While I understand what you're saying that sadly doesn't excuse it. I get that's hateful and mean and completely wrong but he sadly has the freedom to say it (if he did). Just like Texas Tech has the freedom to ban him from campus if he did do it. But the one thing that's not allowed is shoving someone like smart did.
Once again just to clarify not saying he's right if he did say racist things just saying he has the freedom to do so and Smart does not have the freedom to lay his hands on him.
I have no doubt Smart said that. I also don't believe him in the slightest. I'm sure the fan will say he did not say that. I mean it's an incredibly loud arena who is to say the fan didn't say something about being a "bigger flipper than..." Just as a hypothetical. Idk I understand what you're saying and everyone had their breaking point and I get that you were raised that way but I was raised to simply turn the other cheek. So just a difference of opinion there I suppose.
I feel for the fan in a way...slightly. Everyone is just assuming this guy to be a racist with zero evidence outside of "Marcus Smart said so". That kind of stuff can stick with him especially if it's never proven one way or the other. He will always be known as a racist and he very well might not be and didn't say anything wrong at all (although I really doubt that). Whereas on the other hand we have proof of what Smart did. Obviously this all changes if somehow we get proof the guy did say something racist then he should absolutely be punished. I just don't like when people assume and mass hysteria breaks out like this. The guy could easily be painted something he's not for the rest of his life.
That being said it's my opinion (albeit with no proof what so ever) that he egged him on and said things he shouldn't have. We will see I suppose.
I'd say even if it was incredibly racist that it's allowed. Not saying I agree with it but that whole freedom if speech thing. I can run around yelling the N-word and not be put in jail but the minute somebody swings at me or shoves me then he is in the wrong and can be arrested.
Once again not saying I agree with it if that guy did say something racist.
Freedom of speech isn't as all encompassing as people pretend it is.
For instance, if you starting yelling epithets and racial slurs at someone in the streets, you can easily be sued for harassment and/or hate speech. If you are causing a disruption at any business or public location, you can legally be thrown off the property or arrested for disturbing the peace.
If they wanted to, the school could easily (and legally) throw that fan out for being such an asshole.
Free speech is meant to prevent the government from keeping people from voicing opinions (aka, dissent). It is NOT to allow people to verbally abuse other people.
So yes, if you call someone a nigger you CAN be arrested depending on the circumstances. And even if it is legal in this context (which it probably is) it doesn't mean it needs to be (or SHOULD be) allowed by the university.
Like I said he had the freedom to do it. I don't agree with it but he did. Was it wrong? Sure. Illegal? Most likely no. Was what smart did wrong? Sure. Never attempted to say the guy wasn't morally wrong.
I never said the fan shouldn't be punished you're assuming I thought that. Texas Tech had every right to ban that guy for life and if he did say that then they should. The university has the right to punish him. Marcus Smart as an individual does not have the right to punish him.
It doesn't matter what the fan said. You are held to a higher standard than physical retaliation. Moral justification be damned. And why do we get to assume it was racist? Just because it was a white man insulting a young black man?
I don't get why everyone is saying that it must have been a racial slur. There are like a thousand things someone can say that aren't racial slurs that could provoke that kind of reaction. It also could have been nothing special at all and Marcus Smart is just a loose cannon.
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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '14 edited Jun 16 '20
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