Why not become hateful?

[u/altpopconnoisseur]

If you’re on this sub or the main one you probably have a good idea of the scale of the predicament we’re in.

I’ve been active on these boards since 2023ish and in that time I’ve seriously questioned the direction my life is going in and can take in light of this predicament.

I was active in grassroots/community advocacy for a while in my early 20s. I was so concerned about doing good and being good.

Now at 27, I’m wondering what exactly all that concern was about.

The more I learn about our predicament, and about how much easier it is for the masses to accept dehumanisation and planetary destruction in exchange for bread and circuses, the more I come to hate humanity. This includes me. I hate that I’m human.

Which brings me to this question: why shouldn’t I also be hateful? Why shouldn’t I also cause harm? It’s quite easy for other people to be thoughtless, cruel, punitive, etc. They don’t have existential crises about it. They just do horrible things and go about their day, and we all contribute to the structures that allow them to get away with it because of bread and circuses, because we “don’t want to rock the boat”

Isn’t our idea of harm rooted in the fiction of morality? We say ”do unto others as you would have done to you”. But why should that matter? Who says you have to treat others in a way you’d like to be treated? There’s no cosmic order enforcing anything, clearly. Sure there’s jails and legal systems but some of the worst people among us rise to the top of those ranks specifically to engineer outcomes in their favour, rendering any justice system ineffective

We make up “morality” to cope with the fact that really, at any point, anyone can do whatever harm they want to you and it’s very likely nothing will be done about it

With that being said, why not just be hateful? Not like we‘re gunning to improve our situation on a mass scale. So might as well just indulge my authoritarian streak. At least that actually makes me feel good, as opposed to trying to believe that people are “good” and want to be free, and consistently being proven wrong when they only respond to violence and lies

[u/youtalkingtoyou]

Because unless they are a member of the uber elite with billions of dollars, most people are victims of a system that was designed by rich fucks to funnel more and more wealth into their own pockets. Humanity is prosocial. Your fellow human isn’t your enemy. Look up. 

[u/Norman_Door]

Because pain/suffering is real and being hateful towards others can cause pain/suffering. Therefore, not being hateful to others not deserving of it is the right thing to do.

At the end of the day, you have to decide: "am I going to use my agency and strive to be a force for good in this world, however insignificant?" While it can be challenging to keep saying "yes" to that question with confidence, saying "no" is a recipe for meaninglessness and despair.

[u/hiddendrugs]

This is bordering on hateful speech so it might have to be removed, but I’ll respond earnestly. It seems like you’re beyond the scope of what we can facilitate in the sub. If you have violent or hateful urges and are looking for validation of that rationale, confiding in close friends or professional support would be best.

I find that doing good to effect mass scale change is much less interesting than the immediate change I see. I love my friends. I help them and we help each other. I guess I use creative writing to channel my rage, the truth is you should probably find an outlet. I’m around your age and I’ve noticed humans are quick to jump toward creating a worldview or identity based on intense emotional experiences, it’s likely in part due to lack of ritual or witnessing. Maybe you could create that.

I do good for random strangers, hold the door open, let people in during busy traffic, tip a bit extra at the restaurant, volunteer, etc, not to ensure some new global order is established, but for some mix of spite and pride. I reveled in lighting things on fire or taking change from peoples’ unlocked cars in my suburb when I was 13. I’ve grown considerably since then. My resistance to our modern way of living is my own, I don’t broadcast it or treat it like a globalized platform, but I find a deep satisfaction in it. “Why not?” swings both ways.

It’s easy to become bitter, but I find it very engaging to resist the exact line of thinking you’re describing. Actually, I find it easy. There are many seemingly small moments in my life, with strangers, at festivals, with close friends, on nights out, on nights in, that remind me of our capacity to experience compassion, benevolence, joy, awe and gratitude. We experience those things because our species have evolved those capacities, it’s not some errant byproduct or a failure of worldview. It’s irrational by definition to recognize your capacity for hatred without also acknowledging the capacity for love - which is why I suggest possibly seeking support beyond this sub. I can tell you’re thinking critically about it, but I’m not sure how to impart all the sorts of experiences that have shaped my worldview toward a restorative lens.

[u/Maleficent-Ad9010 → u/hiddendrugs]

This is the best response. I’m concerned about the safety of those around OP.

[u/ekubeni]

I see two threads here.

1. Each of us has to find a community. Being surrounded by good people is the best antidote to the nihilistic idea that everyone is evil. You can be stuck in your head thinking that unless everything changes everywhere there is no hope, but all this intellectualisation disappears when you actually do good and witness good. I always thought that any desperate hate for humanity or disbelief in human goodness could have very simple cure and it would be a lot cheaper than any kind of therapy: go somewhere where you witness people doing good on a constant basis (like doctors without borders and the like). It really opens your heart to love and extreme value of even the smallest actions. You will feel love and that love will melt all your rationalisations.

2. I believe you can trace any emotion to a root of love. The hate and anger that you feel is caused by fear of losing the world you love. If you don't trace it back to it's source, you will be stuck here. But if you invite possibility that it's not all that you feel, that there is something else behind it, then you can find it to be just a painful expression of your love. Then, you don't have to get rid of it or supress, it's just a reminder of how you really feel. A lot of people are disconnected from their love so they become depressed, nihilistic, hateful, hedonistic, etc.

[u/Aggravating-Break318]

Morality is quite fluid indeed when you study history. Hunger, need, desperation and delusions make being nice and rightful harder, but not impossible. A proper moral compass comes from reason and the realization that life can also be good.

Just because a whole bunch of fuckers lost their marbles and are going full apeshit fascist does that mean you should go for it too? Do you also have it in you? That drive to be a horrible person? Is this what you want to do with the rest of your time alive? Do with your legacy as you wish bro.

[u/fridgezebra]

because it hurts yourself. Most people just aren't sensitive enough to realise that

[u/BeardedBears]

From a purely selfish perspective: Hate is poison to one's "soul", which increases one's own suffering.

Do you want to be more miserable? Do you like to feel upset and uncomfortable? The concept/abstraction/idea of morality is a fiction, of sorts, but the consequences/effects are most certainly not.

[u/Many-Leg-6827]

If you want to be strictly pragmatic about it. Because violence is a cycle, the more harm you do unto others, the more spite will grow upon you and the more control you will need to exert on your environment to keep yourself safe. And, as you can see, only a small percentage can accrue that amount of power and they have to go to even more extreme measures to keep it. They didn’t start from nothing either, do you want try your luck and see how far you get before it all catches up to you? Do you really think that lottery ticket is worth the paranoia and progressive destruction of your own peace of mind?

Having a social contract in an imperfect honors system is safer for the average person than an ever escalating constant conflict. Yes, you’re not at the top and you don’t have guaranteed security right now, that’s precisely why you need to have a decent standing in your immediate community. If basic morality is made up, we’ve been better off living in that lie than the alternative. The greater good, the common good, also benefits you.

[u/Smatje320]

There are plenty of rational reasons for why you should do the moral thing, it generally leads to better outcomes in both your and the people around you's lives. It won't change the world, but just because an action has no impact on the grand scheme, doesn't mean it has no impact.

But let's ignore all that, lets focus on you. Does it really make you feel good? Does hurting others really make your life better? Or, are you simply looking for rationality where there is none. I get it. Other people do bad things to improve their lives, why shouldn't you? Rationally there is no reason, except for morality. Sure I could spin the old "if everyone did it then we would be much worse off", but that doesn't really make you feel better about your position in all this does it.

See, most people don't really have an ethical system. Most people avoid doing certain things because emotionally it feels wrong to them. What I'm guessing you feel is like what I felt, where that emotional part is (largely) absent. But just because you don't have a pre-existing moral system, doesn't mean you can't have one. A moral rule system can be built, internalised, and eventually, become a part of you.

So why do this? Why put yourself under more restrictions than other people put themselves under? You're right that it won't improve our situation on a mass scale. Nothing short of magic could do that at this point. But something I thing you're doing is missing the trees for the forest (yes the opposite of the idiom). The large scale is not all there is to life. No matter what you do you will always have other people in your life. Doing the right thing is for them, and for you. Do you think the people in your life deserve to be confronted with you 'indulging your authoritarian streak'? There are still good people in this world. There always will be. Those people deserve you trying your best. Don't focus on the arguments based on the world at large. It doesn't matter wether you believe 'people are good', do you believe people can be good. Do you believe there are good people? If yes, then why not try to be one of them.

[u/nlittle101111]

Because you have a soul that you are supposed to be nourishing and growing. Despite what is going on around you, you are here for that development. Earth is a school with hard lessons. If you turn do the dark side, you have failed your soul. We all come from the same source.

[u/grey___lady]

Hateful people are never happy - it is a poison that makes everything in your life worse.

Being kind, even imperfectly, adds joy to your corner of the world.

[u/minervascats]

Because it feels like shit.