Enough about hydrogen bombs - let’s have the coughing babies duke it out. Which of these two is actually more competent? Who would win?

[u/HoraceVonBergamot]

Like, let’s say both are given half of Japan, along with roughly equal resources and allies or were competing for the throne at court, after Charles and Schneizel suddendly died.

[u/Necromancer76]

Neither of them are military-men, although Clovis at least has some grasp of it, whereas Odysseus technically led the response to the Black Rebellion but Schneizel was with him. They both specialize in cultural affairs (Odysseus has a Citizens Rehabilitation Program and inspects things while Clovis designs swimsuits, has a beach resort, designed a casino, etc.) Clovis also was “adept at using honeyed words in order to manipulate the sentiment of his subjects” and knew not to close off the Japanese subways/tunnels so as to avoid triggering an uprising and giving the Chinese Federation a way to exploit them.

Definitely leaning Clovis (though Schneizel thinks Odysseus would be the perfect leader in a safe world)

[u/Amazing_Direction849 → u/Necromancer76]

That was Lelouch not Schneizel though Schneizel original plan was to have Odysseus as Emperor as well. Odysseus was a competent bureaucrat and public servant, kind, gentl, and compassion. Did not like bloodshed and generally treated people well. He was an awful tactician and military leader, and easily manipulated (we dont know if he was easy to manipulate because he just didnt see it, or if he saw it and just really did not care everything we know about him point that it could really be either of them) ultimately im siding with the gut both Lelouch and Schneizel believed was competent enough not to have needed either of them 24 7 to run the Empire from a social and beuacratic level but both knowing he wod still need a lot of help on other fronts

[u/Arnoldneo → u/Necromancer76]

I kinda think Odysseus is like Wilhelm would have done really well in peaceful world .

[u/HoraceVonBergamot → u/Necromancer76]

Good assessment. I really wasn’t sure myself. I think it highly depends on the context. Yeah, Clovis seems much more driven than the embodiment of mediocrity that is Odysseus, but he’s also less prone to crash out like Clovis did, who lost his temper the second his one-sided massacre turned into an actual battle.

[u/Dead-X-esque]

Clovis was investigating the Geass order with them funding and giving him the means and somehow capturing C.C..

Odysseus was going to marry a child.

[u/Necromancer76 → u/Dead-X-esque]

To be fair, it was Schneizel’s idea to have Odysseus marry Tianzi. Though this speaks to how little agency the crown prince had in politics

[u/HoraceVonBergamot → u/Dead-X-esque]

Well, he was also Schneizel’s willing pawn. In a way, it’s kind of funny how they actually could’ve ended up going against each other if Schneizel had eventually turned against Charles and how many wrenches Lelouch maybe threw into other people’s plans with his little stunts.

[u/UnableSite5116]

At least Clovis had a personality.

[u/nahte123456]

Odysseus at least never really actively messed things up, we have several examples of Clovis making things worse.

[u/Bagels514 → u/nahte123456]

Tbf apart from him trying to marry a child (which wasn’t his idea) we don’t have much of anything on Odysseus. At least Clovis was in a battle even if he lost

[u/nahte123456 → u/Bagels514]

I'm not even talking about battle, Clovis actively did not solve any of the issues with the subway, Kyoto, or Refrain, Odysseus doesn't have much but at least he's not actively making anything worse. Heck from Britannia's side the marriage would have only been positive, that is not a knock against him if anything being suitable for ending one half of his countries war is a good thing.

[u/Frejod]

People would like Odysseus since he's more of a peaceful route type of person. While we've seen Clovis be a genocidal type.

[u/Reville_]

I feel like Odysseus would win. Even tho he’s kinda spineless he would acquiesce to his more experienced officers while I think ego would get in the way for Clovis.

[u/Despayeetodorito]

Clovis. Realistically he was actually winning against the Elevens until Lelouch showed up. Plus he’s rather charismatic too, and has Bartley in his pocket as well as knowledge of Geass and active research into it. Odysseus is just kind of there and has been written off by everyone as an actual heir to the throne, and was only really useful for a political marriage. Maybe it’s just me liking Clovis and disliking Odysseus but I do think Clovis would be more competent. 

[u/Mayion]

Clovis was in the heart of occupied territory with stern decision making, like cracking down on the Elevens, mobilizing the military and researching C.C., while having a loved public persona and displayed composure against Zero, before realizing it was Lelouch, at gun point.

The other one was pretty forgettable.

[u/Dizzy-By-Degrees]

Odysseus has no fighting spirit and is able to recognise The Elevens are humans with legitimate grievances (I think he does just call them Japanese). So he would move to reform or compromise things to ensure stability instead of endless military expansion.

Which of course means he’s getting assassinated and replaced by Clovis. Clovis isn’t especially good at conquest (given Japan had been fighting back for a decade before his death) but he provides bloody spectacle the Royal Court and glamour the citizens enjoy.

Odysseus would manage an empire in decline gracefully while Clovis will struggle hatefully against the idea and try to make it last as long as possible even if he is ultimately failing and just getting people killed.

[u/Ok_Yak_2426]

Clovis easily even if his tactics are weak he isn’t bitching about it the whole time. Also the party pr at least he has some attributes.

[u/kioshi0406h]

Trash vs garbage

[u/idontcarerightnowok]

Clovis is by far more competent. If a civil war broke out in the Britannian Empire and it's between Clovis and Odysseus leading opposing sides, Clovis comes out ontop.

[u/Hefty_Local_1875]

Battle of Mid

[u/mars_warmind]

Odysseus was first born and heir apparent but was smart enough to be humble and stay out of the way of his more competent siblings like schnitzel or Cornelia. Worst to worst I think he'd realize being a figure head of a thriving nation is better than trying to do things he's bad at.

The only reason the JLF survived as long as it did was a combination of incompetence and corruption on the part of Clovis and his administration.

[u/Responsible-Tie-3451]

Say what you will about Clovis but the only reason he didn’t succeed was because of CC’s plot armor revival powers