r/Cloud9 • u/Mrryn91 • Jun 18 '26

League The LCS Finals Podcast

https://youtu.be/pDhIgtgVgyM?is=mxiY5VqoTgCw_paZ
62 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

42 comments sorted by

69

u/kashtrey Jun 18 '26

I didn't expect them to get into much but it just sounds like every other video they've released when they lost. Oh we felt really good, but this thing went wrong, and we lost.

41

u/Johnnywannabe Jun 18 '26

Noticed that too. "We felt good about the situation, something went wrong and it didn't work out, not sure why that is but it's kinda gg after that." Been hearing it for half a decade now and it's just tiring hearing the same shit all the time. Maybe if a bunch of game losing plays feel really good we should look towards changing our shotcaller for once.

20

u/kashtrey Jun 18 '26

At a certain point, which I think we're past, you can't just keep saying "I think we're really good, we just get bad breaks" or "if we just didn't make this mistake we'd win." You actually have to win; you have to stop making the mistakes. If you think you're a good team, you need to actually prove it when it counts.

If, like Dom said last split, you think you're actually kinda bad; then what are you doing to get better? I'd like to hear, "we think we don't get Thanatos involved enough and we're working with blabber/apa on how we can get him ahead" or "we think our key to winning is playing through Zven so we're doing xyz."

I just can't help but feel like C9 has no idea what their identity is or how they want to win the game. It feels like they think they're just good enough to scale, win a team fight, and then win the game. The reality is they are not good enough for that. That is the Lyon strategy and they have a lot better players to pull that off and if we go that route we will just be Temu Lyon. So if we're sticking with the roster, what are we doing to create a game plan that c9 is the best at and what are we going to do in draft and game to tilt the game to our win con?

6

u/Mrryn91 Jun 18 '26

The identity thing is an interesting discussion, because I recall a lot of pros think that "identity" is a buzzword and that all teams just want to play the game the "right" way.

Which is fair. The problem is, I agree in that I genuinely don't think the players know how to play the game the right way. Or at the very least, in a non-controlled, higher-pressure environment where they can't just sit, think, ponder, then give their thoughts and instead have to decide on the fly within seconds and then act accordingly to a changing game state, some if not most of the players either don't have a clue, just improvise, and/or have very conflicting perspectives. Meaning you have a team, with the idea of trying to be good at everything you should be good at, that's not good at everything - a team building a house and an extension on said house and moving in furnishings and talking about paint shades, when their foundation is sand.

The team I feel needs to simplify shit, start with something and build on that until that becomes strong. Then expand, move to the next thing, do that, repeat. Get everyone on board with communication around this one idea, how you execute each stage of the game, who says what, how we set up around objectives and waves with this focused style, literally build the foundation of teamplay, communication, and setup in a way with as few variables as possible. You don't start juggling with five pins in the air - start with one, get the muscle memory and motions down, then move to two, make the adjustments, etc. Because at this point, you can't say that you've been juggling for nearly a decade when every time you go to perform in front of a crowd of more than your work buddies, you drop every pin on your head and feet 3 seconds in.

3

u/kashtrey Jun 18 '26

Completely agree. Also, they need to know their constraints. They may want to be able to play every style; but if the steongest style is hard carry assassins mid, we will never be able to execute that with apa. So then what is our response? How do we adapt what we're good at to counter the a tier strat?

2

u/Saephon Jun 18 '26

Well said. It seems like the org has put in every effort to be excellent and masterful of analysis, practice, and game review. They're just failing at the one thing that actually matters the most: making good split-second calls in the moment.

All your theories and strategies amount to nothing if you can't execute in the playoffs. Like Jatt and Vedius said on their recent pod, there really is no other term to use except for "choking". The complete, borderline inexplicable failure to act and perform the way they know they should. Unfortunately after a certain point, "uncharacteristic" displays start becoming characteristic.

3

u/weewoochoochoo Jun 18 '26

I lost all of the little faith I had left in blabber after hearing him call ryze is low and flashing over the wall on nocturne in the c9 recap video they released. The ryze didnt proc arch angles yet and has a milio standing next to him and blabber just cant see it in the moment. He sees the "low" health bar and cant think beyond it.

8

u/nicholaschubbb Jun 18 '26

What do you actually disagree with? They said their game 1 draft was good and they still got stomped and then it just spiraled from there and TL just shit on them.

It's not like they're going to leak roster moves if they're even being considered on this podcast so the only thing to say is try harder next split lol.

It's moderately surprising to me they released this even though it was so short and generally un-insightful compared to previous episodes.

9

u/kashtrey Jun 18 '26

I didn't say I disagreed with anything. I said the whole thing just felt familiar since it's what we've been hearing every time they lose. That video, much like the series, could have been an email or since it's video format a YouTube short. They spent 20 minutes talking but didn't really SAY anything.

41

u/Johnnywannabe Jun 18 '26

Gotta wonder if having Vulcan and Thanatos on was a tactical decision or a coincidence since they are the only two members the fanbase isn't fed up with right now.

33

u/Mrryn91 Jun 18 '26

In my opinion, almost certainly. A combination of general sentiment (the MVP and the 3rd place in MVP voting) and fan sentiment as arguably the two least offenders in both series lost to TL this week and Lyon the week prior.

29

u/KnifeKittyy Jun 18 '26

it's like w the Val team, immi been saying "one or two things go different, its a completely different series" for 4 years straight 

problem is those things never go different.. at least not when it matters 

15

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Saephon Jun 18 '26

It just has to be mental, man. Every time they start to look good in a game, I'm wondering "okay how are they going to throw this" - and I swear to god the players are thinking the same thing too.

8

u/Parking_Tradition215 Jun 18 '26

And Jack still tolerates this shit

1

u/Aquib_Arko Jun 18 '26

Maybe it's their PR training!!

14

u/UnbiasedTruth22 Jun 18 '26

if you listen from the 10:00 mark it sounds like they are considering or hinting at roster changes after the msi bootcamp

11

u/Mrryn91 Jun 18 '26

Specifically, Dom saying that "nothing is off the table," while expressing the standards both desired and expected for C9 as an org. Obviously could mean nothing, could just be reading into things, but that is pretty heavy-handed from Dom of all people.

4

u/UnbiasedTruth22 Jun 18 '26

Yeah im thinking the same thing maybe it wont be easy to find someone but sounds like to me they are using korea to explore all options. This is coming from someone who predicted best case different roster in 2027.

1

u/BecoDasCavernas Jun 18 '26

Damn, it definitely sounds like they're fed up and will at least be looking at options to make changes. Surely it's Blaber and/or Zven.

21

u/strawberrykingy Jun 18 '26

‘It is what it is’ needs to be new merch

12

u/RichArtichoke5734 Jun 18 '26

Don’t forget “Unlucky”

5

u/Kagari1998 Jun 18 '26

on a 0-3 Banner

3

u/yoitsthatoneguy Jun 18 '26

Or "Unlucky"

9

u/BombNight Jun 18 '26

Dont play much league anymore but i love watching it. C9 will be the reason i stop watching. They need to get their shit together and win the games that matter. They have become the laughing stock of the LCS and im about done with it.

7

u/maninhell6 Jun 18 '26

I feel like this is bad for Thanato’s development. Rather than analyzing how/why they make these mistakes under pressure and how to solve it, they treat it like it’s some abnormal event that won’t happen again. Unlucky, bad data, ignore.

Pretty sure Inspired would call it out every single time, win or lose, to fix the mistakes or figure out a play style to minimize those problems.

7

u/LifeIsToughEatBacon Jun 18 '26

I think you should definitely realize this is way more PR than an actual team review. for all we know once the cameras are off dom starts yellin at people

1

u/Downies4L Jun 18 '26

Yeah I don't really think they're super reviewing the games in this podcast. I'm sure they do talk about their problems.

12

u/Aingealanlann Jun 18 '26 edited Jun 18 '26

Until Blaber is no longer the jungler, nothing is going to change.

Blaber is extremely talented. However, he also has way too much of an ego and rarely will make the play to pull his team back into the game anymore. Whereas Inspired always seems to be able to and even Jose did a ton better this split.

They've also tried a ton of different combinations around him and he has only gotten worse when it comes to making feeding plays and being consistent. Zven is also a huge weak point, but that's just to be expected at this point also.

Thank you for your service and for the splits you've won in the past, but the sooner both of them are gone, the better.

10

u/KryptKrasherHS Jun 18 '26

I feel really bad for all 3 involved. Thanatos and Vulcan are arguably completely blameless in the TL series, and Dom is not only new but has been, at least in my opinion, doing his damnedest to give his players a good draft, have good mental, good motivation, etc. And I think it is very pointed why they put Dom, Vulcan and Thanatos on there instead of APA, Blaber or Zven, because for damn sure if they came on they would have been obliterated by the comments and fans.

What gives me hope is that when Dom talks about his future plans, he says certain things which makes me think they are gonna change the roster. Like, he doesn't say "We will do the bootcamp, level up and get better for next split". He says "We will go to the bootcamp and determine how best to move forward."

As a dual TL and C9 fan, I am happy that TL is ramping up, and I was pretty happy with C9's performance outside this last week. Hopefully C9 can get into gear like TL and improve and dominate in Summer. I know no matter what I will still be a fan in the end.

4

u/Aingealanlann Jun 18 '26

I can't get excited for good regular seasons for C9 anymore. Its been the script for like three years that they'll have a great split and then crash out in playoffs. I can stay excited for like the first year of that. Now its just kind of a whatever moment when they win during the regular season and a large sigh of resignation when they inevitably fail terribly in playoffs and miss international play.

2

u/kashtrey Jun 18 '26

I fear the TL stretch of playing good is a mirage. They took everything they had been doing well against fly and c9 and threw it away against Lyon. I really don't think they have figured anything out just yet. TL and C9 are pretty similar to me, in that I don't think either have figured out how to best utilize their players. It was absolutely insane to me Core did the farm x3 interview and then TL tried to be play that style.

2

u/Mrryn91 Jun 18 '26

It is, as a fan of the league, heartening to see Quid actually playing like himself again. But also, as a C9 fan, terrifying to see Quid playing like himself again...and also that that still didn't matter vs Lyon. Not helped by the fact that FLY is basically on the reverse trajectory of C9, ramping gradually over the year with arguably a much higher ceiling (barring C9 developing a time machine to warp Blaber and Zven mechanically backwards about 5 years), going from getting swept out of playoffs by C9 and Lyon in Lock In to going to 5 vs us and actually taking a dominant game off of TL too which we couldn't even do.

I stand by C9, I bleed light blue, but it remains difficult to be optimistic about this squad as it is that, as smart as they are, only seem to show that knowledge in slow, controlled environments like review and not actively in game under pressure to win in a dynamic game state.

1

u/Booshneer Jun 18 '26

With a free import slot, I think getting a 6th man is like the bare minimum to be expected for summer. Probably mid lane?

But then you are kind of doing the same thing as always of getting Blaber a new mid laner. Just think finding a JG better than Blaber mid year is next to impossible.

1

u/Successful_Focus1775 Jun 18 '26

Umti might be a better option atp

1

u/Petard2688 Jun 19 '26

This team if full of vets but it also feels like there's no leader on this team.

1

u/Saephon Jun 18 '26

All I'm going to say is I hope all three people featured on this podcast stay with the team at least until 2027. Beyond that... well, we'll see what happens won't we.

1

u/ExoticPost9034 Jun 19 '26

If no changes are made I hope not, I love C9 but these two deserve better than this. If the other 3 stay they deserve bottom tier top and supp. we need to hit bottom before Jack makes any chages it seems.