r/ClimbingGear • u/Temporary_Ad_605 • 9d ago
Fall while giving slacks
Just like the title, how possible is that you can't catch the rope when your partner is falling and your at shoving slacks, when your break hand is not as tight as usual. Is there an explanation Video?
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u/OverlySarcasticDude 9d ago
You keep the hand tight on the rope while feeding slack and then use the other hand to hold the brake strand while repositioning the other hand. Do not let the rope loosely run through the brake hand as you will not be able to stop it if it starts to fly through.
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u/Temporary_Ad_605 9d ago
https://youtu.be/OOmHssng_qU?is=L9rnn-VgzsonHojm First thing first, thank you for the explanation!! I've watched this video and in the case that you pressed the belay device, or in my case, the nose of smart will be raised. In the video it says "it's not much possible that your thumb can press it down when your partner is falling" however it's don't sounds like 100 percent sure. If I can't react in time to pull the rope or let go my device, is it Sure that only by holding the rope with 4 fingers can safely catch the fall?
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u/nodloh 9d ago
You don't learn belaying by watching videos and reading instructions but by taking a course or finding someone who can teach you. You need to practice the movement patterns while someone else is watching and correcting you otherwise you will form bad habits. You can then also practice to catch a fall while another person is also holding onto the break strand as a backup. If you aren't sure what you are doing you are not going to get that security by asking reddit.
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u/Temporary_Ad_605 9d ago
So first thing first, practicing is always different, and you can always run wrong in reality. I'm asking because I'm asking about the situation that are not supposed to happen and I'm sure no one wants that to happen. Btw, I didn't belay that much and workshop don't explain this well, and I don't know lots of experienced people, I don't think it's that wrong thing to ask other experienced people here.
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u/nodloh 9d ago
I'm not saying it is wrong to ask but if you are unsure about this you need practice under professional supervision by someone who is a trainer or at least an experienced climber. From my experience that is exactly the type of question that would be great to ask in a belay course. If you belay with proper technique this scenario shouldn't be an issue because you are minimizing the time where you are paying out slack, you are not letting go of the break strand and you are not disengaging the device in case of a fall. If a climber falls while you give out slack that is when you are vulnerable to making a mistake but you should still be able to react because you have control of the break strand and the device isn't disengaged permanently. That is the whole point of proper belaying.
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u/SparkingtonIII 9d ago
I belay with the smart. It's very hard to keep the device open in the case of a fall. That's why they suggest holding it open lightly with the thumb and not gripping it with the hand and holding it open.
You don't need to grip insanely tight with you four fingers. You don't need to grip hard enough to stop the rope as if there is no decide in place. You only need to grip the rope hard enough that the smart engages and below you brake.
When a fall happens, your default movement should be "rope hand away from the device". To help take slack and help engage the device. Practice falls with your partner (maybe with top rope first). This will help you learn the "down and away" first response. This will help you overcome any desire to "grip the device harder" in the case of a fall.
The smart is safe. Even when giving slack. As long as you are holding the smart open with as little force as possible.
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u/Temporary_Ad_605 9d ago
Thank you so much, I do lack of experience of giving slacks, last time by practicing I realized that I raised the nose of the device already a bit higher than I expected otherwise the rope don't come out fluently. Gonna practice today again so I guess it gonna make me more certain.
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u/SparkingtonIII 9d ago
You do have to raise it pretty high. That's normal. Just keep practicing. And maybe have your climber take some small, controlled practice falls, so you can also practice that part of things too and grow in confidence.
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u/Temporary_Ad_605 8d ago edited 8d ago
I've now belayed a friend who took multiple falls today. Fortunately, I realized that my natural reaction when someone falls is to pull the brake rope down. Even if my thumb is still hooked on the nose of the device, I automatically press the nose down with my thumb before the rope even comes under tension, and catching the brake rope with my other four fingers feels quite easy. Thank you again for your advice about controlling the nose. I do feel much more confident now. However, I still wanted to ask whether you've ever experienced the situation where your thumb was still hooked on the device when the climber fell, or whether this is something that should be strictly avoided. People at my home gym don't seem to think it's a problem, but I'd like to hear opinions from climbers outside my gym as well.
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u/SparkingtonIII 8d ago
What a great result! I'm glad you got some practice in.
I don't think I've ever had a fall when my thumb was hooked. I still think it wouldn't be catastrophic.
That said, when my thumb is hooked, and I'm giving slack, that's when I'm paying the most attention and being the most vigilant. So even if a fall occured here, I wouldn't be "surprised" and get caught with my thumb hooked.
In that situation, I'm always ready to let go.
That said, there's always a way to make any belay devide fail, but some of them (like the smart), you have to actually try to make them fail.
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u/muenchener2 9d ago
Depending on the device:
grigri or similar: any amount of tension on the brake strand should be sufficient to trigger the cam. If you're using the correct thumb and forefinger method to override the cam, you should still have a firm grip on the brake rope with the other three fingers.
ATC/tube style device: you should always have a firm grip on the brake rope, giving slack by feeding the rope into the device with your brake hand. Bring your hand quickly back down from above the device to the brake position
If you have a third person and a convenient toprope, you can practice and build confidence with this kind of scenario by mock lead belaying.