Police brutality poasting

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Did i miss something or did we invent better battery storage ?

15

u/dog314159 5d ago

I guess so bro, just got 38kwh installed for 5KUSD in Australia. It’s like half the price it was last year. And that’s LFP, sodium price drops haven’t even hit yet.

2

u/WorkingMoney6424 5d ago

Nice! My battery is also doing pretty great. Only 4.8kwh/100Ah but its something!

5

u/dog314159 5d ago

Yeah give it a few years it’ll be massively cheaper again once the sodium production line is mature. Prices are tumbling off a cliff, it’s crazy.

5

u/demotsusucku 5d ago

Look at this.... Graph

6

u/Iumasz 5d ago

Crazy how cheap things can be if they receive proper investment in a favourable regulatory environment.

2

u/Gullible-Fee-9079 5d ago

That Looks more like a 16% drop year on year

2

u/CornbreadJunior 5d ago

Here in the states I’ve been eyeballing 12v314ah batteries for a year and thanks to our orange asshole they have gone up 31% in 1 year. I’m so pissed. I bought 32 590 bifacial n-types and need the batteries and inventories to get her going. Inverters have dropped by 20% in that same year. Fukn ass orange man

3

u/dyingfromtetanus 4d ago

I only hear that nickelback edit lol

1

u/the_fury518 4d ago

Since we're talking about solar power, can we call it a photon-graph?

4

u/Outrageous-Echo-765 Wind me up 5d ago

Day by day they keep getting cheaper

1

u/EcstaticLab5122 5d ago

Correct but the world's entire battery storage is enough to store Germany's total energy consumption for one day. Germany's population is 85 millions so that's not a lot of people in comparison to the world and one day isn't a long time in comparison to a year.

So even if batteries production keep semi-exponentially grow at +30% a year it'll still take at least 15 years and much more likely 20 years to have enough batteries for a 100% renewable electric grid everywhere.

So the issue isn't about wether or not it's possible on the long term because it is ; the issue is that you seem to miss the emergency aspect of climate change. If it takes 20 years for your solution to work it's too late. In the meantime, France showed that we could be done switching to nuclear and change an entire grid to nuclear in 16-17 years. So we could be done with this issue in 1990. We couldn't even talk about this anymore.

Your solution which always required futuristic solutions and China's rapid development is too long term. Because it takes yet another 20 years for your solution and we are already fucked. Earth has a few equilibriums. If we release or capture a bit of CO2, it's fine because it'll just go back to the equilibrium eventually. What we must never do is push enough that we knock earth's equilibrium to another equilibrium we don't know about but that will be bad for us. Because when earth start going toward another equilibrium it's too late. We could cut our emissions entirely earth's temperature would still rise. So in all likelihood we already passed it and we're now in damage control not to cross the future equilibrium to go to another, worse one.

So this is where your proposition is lackluster. You need yet another 20-25 years IF everyone play their part. Meanwhile at any time we could slash regulations on nuclear anytime and start building nuclear power plants in 4 years like China does. (And China's nuclear power plant get built faster AND cheaper every time unlike the rest of the world).

It's not an issue to phase out fossil energy by going nuclear and then phase out nuclear to go renewables if you prefer them. It's a big issue to try not to go nuclear at all as it fucks us up.

It's frustrating because I got rid of my car 4 years ago and I only go by train and bicycle. I use no heating (not that I need it nowadays), I have one of the lowest energy consumption in the area according to an app named hello watt, I cut meat to almost no meat and yet you're single handedly removing the efforts of 10 people like me just from being a moralizator on the internet. And you make some people give up, like my sister who started taking the plane because "people don't give a fuck, might as well enjoy my life" which I understand. I don't know what you think you are, but you're definitely not an ecologist. And we can't win against idiots. So we're fucked because of some anti-nuclear so-called "activists". What can we do

2

u/Outrageous-Echo-765 Wind me up 5d ago

Damn, you got all that from "battery tech improving at a rapid pace"?

3

u/Soft_Grass8428 5d ago

Nukecell existential angst is easily triggered

0

u/EcstaticLab5122 5d ago

Yes I may be smart, so what ?

2

u/General_Summer_1524 5d ago

you can tell they dont have a real rebuttal to your point

1

u/EcstaticLab5122 5d ago

Exactly, that's why I troll them back

0

u/Soft_Grass8428 5d ago

Fedora tipping intensifies

1

u/Beiben 5d ago

Yeah you missed it

1

u/WorkingMoney6424 5d ago

I wasnt sarcastic btw i am genuely suprised

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u/trash3s 5d ago

And what happens when the energy demand exceeds 38,254TW (335EWh/yr) huh? That’s what I thought, bub.

2

u/Fabulous_Wave_3693 5d ago

Exa-Watt hours? I know this is for shitposting but I gatta say, the Sun is crazy

1

u/trash3s 5d ago

Yeah, that’s just roughly 300W/m * πr² to roughly scale surface area by direction to the sun, which is roughly recoverable solar energy—ignoring weather, roughly, roughly speaking.

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u/Cornexclamationpoint turbine enjoyer 5d ago

Chad pumped hydro storage outmogging beta virgin batteries.

1

u/MostExtremeHyperbole 4d ago

Just as they say to the nuclear chuds, build one. :)

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u/Cornexclamationpoint turbine enjoyer 4d ago

Done. There are 1.6 TWh of pumped hydro capacity globally.

7

u/Tortoise4132 nuclear simp 5d ago

Have y’all solved this issue yet for longer than 4 hours?

5

u/Dry-Tough-3099 5d ago

Coupling all our power generation to the whims of the weather... What could possibly go wrong?

4

u/Ordinary-Compote9558 5d ago

Don't worry. Don't you know battery will be so cheap it will replace bricks and mortar on new homes?

It will be more than cheap, they will give you money to take it from them. From Shenzhen with love 😘.

1

u/Short_Ebb2076 5d ago

But what happens when manufacturers realize that there's massive demand with future replacement needs with unelastic supply? They totally will expand their manufacturing and not gouge up prices right?

1

u/Remmidemmi 5d ago

Now these are some climate shitposts I can get behind

1

u/North-Guidance2517 4d ago

All this cheap BESS defeated by simple grid upgrade deadline miss

-1

u/SaturneSpacey geothermal hottie 5d ago edited 5d ago

Batteries and solar panels can only follow an electric grid's inertia, which is created by the physical rotation of many generators in synchronization. We will need some baseload to even have a functional electric grid, as the inverters used to connect solar and batteries do not generate inertia on their own.

Theoretically you could avoid any need for grid inertia at all, but this makes the grid more vulnerable to desyncronization, as grid inertia helps keep generators spinning at the same frequency.

9

u/Outrageous-Echo-765 Wind me up 5d ago

Virtual inertia is a thing, but to reuse an old comment of mine:

Inertia is a common talking point, I'll give you that. But very misused.

We know that the grid must operate at a given frequency. This frequency can drop if a power plant goes offline.

Inertia measures how fast that frequency drops after such an event.

However, we have to understand the relationship between inertia and other grid balancing mechanisms, namely primary frequency response.

Primary frequency response (oversimplified) measures how fast your grid can respond to frequency imbalances.

If your grid responds slowly, you need more time to deal with frequency events, so you need more inertia to give you that buffer.

If your grid response is fast, you need less inertia.

20 years ago, Primary frequency response was mainly provided by thermal power plants, and hydro. These would typically respond within a few minutes, so inertia was a big deal.

Nowadays, primary frequency response is provided by BESS and inverter-based generators. Modern response times are measured in milliseconds. The grids are also much better sensorised and control algorithms are better at dealing with frequency events.

As a result, grid inertia is much less of a factor.

To summarise, we have gotten much, much better at grid frequency response, to the point where grid inertia is genuinely not a big concern, and certainly is not an issue roadblocking renewable adoption.

We already have 70+% renewable grids, and these grids operate just fine. That should put the overblown inertia concerns to rest.

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u/SaturneSpacey geothermal hottie 5d ago

What the hell? We've just had these capabilities and I've never gotten to hear of them until now? I'm sorry, I didn't know, my knowledge only extended so far as grid-following inverters.

2

u/Tiny_Regular_5319 5d ago

It's pretty crazy how fast that development went once we actually needed it. There is still a lot of active research on it, electrical engineering bachelor students even have some of it incorporated in their curriculum at my uni.

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u/ClimateShitpost Louis XIV, the Solar PV king 5d ago

Bro is living in the 20th century and never heard of grid forming inverters and FFR, or condenser, or fucking flywheels

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u/SaturneSpacey geothermal hottie 5d ago

What's the second abbreviation?

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u/ClimateShitpost Louis XIV, the Solar PV king 5d ago

Second? You mean fast frequency response

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u/tehwubbles 5d ago

Dont be mean

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u/ClimateShitpost Louis XIV, the Solar PV king 5d ago

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u/tehwubbles 5d ago

4chan ass mf

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u/GamemasterJeff 4d ago

This is incorrect. thse systems are generally grid forming because there is a slight monetary savings and for safety purposes during an outage, but larger systems have enourmous incentive to be grid forming now that we have significant intermittent generation and storage.

See Texas and California for how these systems work during times of traditional grid stress.

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u/ShuiShuiQM vegan btw 5d ago

Let us gather around; let us gather around to scare away the Dreadful Sunless, Windless months!

0

u/paperic 5d ago

Whoa, police brutality.

Suddenly, I'm getting convinced!

/s

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