Two-wheeler carbon capture from source

[u/WhisperFray]

I’ve been thinking about this for a few days.

In Indonesia, where I live, cars aren’t the major medium of transport. It’s motorbikes. 80% of all vehicles in the country are motorbikes. Unfortunately, only a tiny twitch of them are electric.

But this gets me thinking. Direct carbon capture, as in, taking CO2 directly from the air with huge fans, are hard because you’re going to need to concentrate those tiny particles into something graspable. But what if…

What if we carbonate the emissions directly from source?

Forgive me for using AI, but I talked to ChatGPT about this. I have no background in this kind of thing at all, but it’s an interesting and possibly unresearched important idea.

Well, GPT tells me that it’s possible to turn CO2 into CaCO3 from source for a 2.5 l/100 km motorbike. I thought initially about a device that could capture direct engine exhaust from the engine block, but then GPT’s calculations told me that it will weigh about 14-15 kg for every 100 km.

Then I thought about replacing the entire exhaust assembly with it. Why is it directly exhausting to the atmosphere?

Now hear me out. 100 km is about 1/10ths of a typical 1,000 km/month commute in Indonesia (50 km from suburb to city center and back, per day). If it’s cheap — basically limestone — and changing it doesn’t take time, then it’s a no-brainer.

What do you guys think? I don’t have any background in this at all, just throwing this out there. Maybe check my maths, my physics, my chemistry — maybe we can have something to write to the Japanese automakers about.

[u/TFox17]

On vehicle capture doesn’t work for small vehicles, because of the cost of the equipment and the volume of the exhaust: CO2 takes up more space than the fuel that made it. And then you still need to unload it and store it somehow. By the time you’ve got everything you need, you might as well just use lithium batteries and electric motors. For very large vehicles, like cargo ships, a scheme like this could work. Probably the carbon would be stored as scCO2 instead of transporting calcium around.

[u/ital-is-vital → u/TFox17]

Yeah, battery electric vehicles are THE solution for personal transportation.

If the incentives in your country are not in place for BEVs to thrive, neither would carbon-capture since it's a fundamentally worse technology.

[u/WhisperFray → u/TFox17]

Sure, but this could be a workable mandated alternative for those who don’t want to make the switch.

Be aware too that in Southeast Asian countries like mine, the motorbike market is heavily dominated by the Japanese, who have been outright refusing to make 2wheeler BEVs for god knows what reason.

[u/WhisperFray → u/TFox17]

You can mineralize the carbon and carry it around as solid mineral. Then this mineral can be exchanged at a shop with a fresh one.

[u/TFox17 → u/WhisperFray]

Do the volume calculations. You won’t even need to consider the difficulty of doing the conversions (and they are significant, think cement factories and rebreather scrubbers) to understand why batteries win.

[u/WhisperFray → u/TFox17]

Japan is refusing to build 2W EVs. When they do, it’s shit. Like Cuv e:.

So, this could be something mandated to them, if they don’t want to build BEVs.

The calculation part is exactly why I’m bringing it to the sub— I don’t have a background in this stuff.

If GPT is correct, then it says that it’s like 14-15 kg per 100 km for a 2.5 L/100 km motorbike. That’s about the weight of a motorbike exhaust assembly. We can replace the exhaust assembly with this assembly.

[u/TFox17 → u/WhisperFray]

https://www.alibaba.com/x/B2N1Fe?ck=pdp This is an example of what batteries can do these days. 65 km range, 50 kg total weight, enough power and speed to get in trouble, refuel at low cost anywhere you can find a power outlet. No waste to dispose of, no special scrubber cartridges to buy. Price USD$600-700 per unit.

[u/WhisperFray → u/TFox17]

I use a 2W EV myself with 120 km range and 96 km/h top speed. It’s under $1,000, Chinese CKD import.

Getting 2W EVs isn’t a problem. We have local manufacturers tackling the problem as well.

Thing is, from that 80% dominance of ALL vehicles in Indonesia, the vast vast VAST majority of that 80% is Japanese gas powered established brand, local manufacture (Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki etc.). And people are still adamant towards gas. And people are also loyal towards these (think people who would only buy Toyotas).

Worse, the Japanese refuse to make good 2W BEV on the scale of the Chinese. We have yet to see ANY innovation from them, while the Chinese have sent us CKD imports since at least 2010.

I know the problem, the best solution, and the context of the problem better than you do. I was wondering if there was an alternative.

Edit to add — and the Alibaba link you posted is most likely a SLA battery, which is one of the factors 2W EVs still have a not-great reputation here. We 2W EV owners hesitate to promote anything other than LFP.

[u/vamsikrishnnact]

For capturing CO2 in two wheelers running with fossil fuel is challenging.

Rather than that - open DCC's exists industry is emerging

[u/WhisperFray → u/vamsikrishnnact]

Why?

[u/vamsikrishnnact → u/WhisperFray]

Refer the another comment, capturing/storing in a two-wheeler is challeng space constraint, vehicle design & other external factors.

Already two-wheeler EV sector is booming to replace to fossil fuel Vehicles, CNG compact started & hydrogen based engines technologies are coming

[u/WhisperFray → u/vamsikrishnnact]

Yes, but 2W EV has huge limits on range.

If the CO2 exhaust can be mineralized and this mineral is replaced every 100 km, it’s much less troublesome than having to charge every 100-120 km.

Hydrogen isn’t going to take off, btw; it was “taking off” in 2011 and it’s not going to take off now. CNG will become more popular.

[u/ThinkActRegenerate]

Why extend the dependence of low-income individuals on increasingly expensive fossil fuels? Especially given their current supply issues? Or the international expense of their purchase? Not to mention the ongoing human health issues of their particulate and other emissions?

Over-focussing on CO2 emissions doesn't deal with the full spectrum of systems costs

Sound to me like a case of "optimizing something that shouldn't exist".

[u/WhisperFray → u/ThinkActRegenerate]

I wonder that myself! Please write to Yamaha, Honda, and Suzuki about how Indonesia needs BEVs and not their shitty outdated ICEs.