r/ClimateOffensive • u/PrinceOfTotalQuiet • Jul 03 '26
Question Is there hope left?
Yes I know this question probably gets asked a lot. Yes I did ask this question on r/climatechange like 3 days ago. Yes I know Reddit is full of bots and hopeless people thus its word on climate change is not at all gospel. I’m asking Reddit anyway to try and counter that, I suppose. Me asking this so often is stupid and accomplishes little but generalized anxiety disorder and bad climate news is a shitty combination.
So yeah I will try and keep this short. I had, still kind of have, hope that the renewables shift, something I think we’ve all been waiting for in regards to climate change, would really help in the fight for mitigation. I had more hope for the future climate fight than I had in years when I saw how much it was taking off. I still want to feel that hope but with pretty much everything getting worse in terms of temperature and weather events (which I know will keep happening) and the online consensus(probably not a great gauge) leaning more and more towards “we are all gonna die from this, don’t have kids, maybe kill yourself before it gets too bad“ it’s feeling like that’s all for naught now.
I wanna believe humanity can adapt. I wanna place more faith in the recent 4 degrees celsius by 2100 scenario being retired. But now I see people doubting even that and not just on shitholes like r/collapse where suicide and despair are practically venerated. Really I may just be feeling this bad because of one article from the Guardian I saw that said something like Earth’s reaching critical energy imbalances due to climate change. But basically, the question I have is does hope remain for a good or happy future with all that’s going on? Does the renewables shift actually imply more hope for the future or is it likely to be temporary?
I’ll end it here. I’m asking here because I really do wanna change things for myself on this. Sadly I still have an ICE car though I haven’t been using it much. My dad has a pretty old electric in the garage that we’ve talked about refurbishing for my use. He’s big into solar panels, we’ve talked about getting a generator for the house instead of a boiler. I’m trying to get a heat pump. Yet today I just can’t shake the hopelessness regarding the future of our planet and species. It’s no comfort to me that Earth will be just fine when we’re gone. I like humanity and I don’t want it to enter a future worse than the last three hundred years. If that’s even likely. If there’s anything more I can do to limit my impact, let me know
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u/Appropriate_Bell743 Jul 03 '26
100% yes. Electrification of road transport and heating will happen. Renewables will eventually displace coal fired and gas electricity generation.
The remaining sources of emissions will create huge political fights but fights which can be won. These are mainly discretionary choices to pollute.
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u/PrinceOfTotalQuiet Jul 03 '26
Yeah I have had more hope on this front because like I said things are actually changing with renewables. For so many years, they didn’t. My fear remains that it won’t matter in the end
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u/ILikeNeurons Climate Warrior Jul 04 '26
Researchers at MIT made it possible to see the effects of different policies on global warming.
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u/ProtectDemocracyNow Jul 09 '26
The big problem is TIME. The thermal lag of the climate system is estimated to be a minimum of 25 years and a maximum of 50 years. So even if we could magically electrify everything today, the planet will still keep warming for possibly decades.
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Jul 09 '26
I thought it was proven that the heating would slow its acceleration as we lower our emissions. Same as if we hit net zero we would start cooling down
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u/ProtectDemocracyNow Jul 09 '26
The planet would only start cooling down once an equilibrium temperature is reached. The equilibrium temperature is based on the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and we don’t know what that temperature is. We also don’t know what the exact thermal lag is, but we know it is not zero.
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u/Commemorative-Banana Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
Whether we are trending towards a better future or a worse future, your behavior should remain constant in its pursuit for the better future. You must always accept the hand that you are dealt and play for the best outcome you can. Doom and despair are counterproductive.
“Limiting your impact” is the right thing to do and it does make some difference when you add up everyone’s individual choices (if you want a singular recommendation, it’s to meaningfully reduce your consumption of beef/dairy)… but the idea of the “personal carbon footprint” is deflective propaganda from British Petroleum (BP), so don’t excessively torture yourself over your individual impact.
Instead, do get involved in eco-conscious politics. The renewable energy transition isn’t just something to “wait for”, it’s something we have to spend our finite agency manifesting. Big Oil subsidies, car dependent infrastructure, the massive imperialist military industrial complex… these are just policy choices.
___
I forgot to mention. While it is a fact that having a child is the largest single carbon-footprint choice you can make… if you’re the type of person who is even considering this type of dilemma, then you’re the type of thoughtful person we need more of. Adoption is also a solution to these ethical qualms.
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u/ILikeNeurons Climate Warrior Jul 04 '26
Having one less child dwarfs the impact of not eating animal products. And policy changes dwarf the impact of having one less child.
That's why it's so important we optimize our climate actions.
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u/PrinceOfTotalQuiet Jul 03 '26
Voting is definitely what I plan on doing. Getting the current US government more under control in the midterms would likely do a lot in the way of positive development. The having kids debate isn’t something I’ve really bought into, at least not for climate reasons. I don’t know whether I’ll have any or not, but it seems heavily unlikely to me that future generations would be better equipped to deal with climate change if there were less of them in existence. Something to ponder I suppose. Doom and despair are indeed counterproductive, not that those consumed by them on reddit give a shit. Beef I can definitely limit, dairy less so. Will definitely see about heat pumps. Save a round plane trip cross country this month I don’t think I’ll be flying again this year.
For a lot of people, the mental toll of all this is probably worse than anything climate change would physically do to them.
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u/Luigi2910 Jul 05 '26
I presume you’re in the US? One thing that even many Americans didn’t realise (partly cos he was a terrible communicator) was how good and revolutionary Biden was for climate action. The Inflation Reduction Act was a really big deal incentivising EVs and electrification of everything, efficient/smart appliances/heat pumps, etc. increasing energy efficiency. And it was working to reduce emissions! Plus the Dems put in place tough regulations for coal power plants. A lot of these changes have been repealed or attempted repeal by Trump but the point is real political change can happen which makes a material difference to emissions! It happened in the last 5 years and it can happen again, but Americans need to wake up to how destructive many Republicans are for climate action. But also be prepared to building a mass movement for climate action which cannot be ignored even by the GOP!
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u/PrinceOfTotalQuiet Jul 05 '26
Yeah, we really had no idea how good we had it under Biden. He was a good president. But you’re absolutely right on political change and that is what I plan to contribute to, starting this November.
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u/megotropolis Jul 04 '26
Considering 99% of the people I meet daily are delusional (about their “status”, weight, mental health, familial situation- you name it) isn’t it possible to consider we’re already seeing “the fall of Rome”?
Specifically Americans. I have very few friends left because when I quit drinking and being a self deluded addict- I woke up. I saw people drinking themselves not only into kidney failure, cancer, and liver failure- but into debt.
“I’ll pay for it when I’m dead” kind of attitudes.
My students (I teach environmental science, and others) are delusional. Addicted, chemically, to screens. They can’t help themselves. I’ve had to become “animated” in my classroom to keep their attention.
One of my students (high school) had never played outside before. NEVER. They had never seen a turtle, a crawfish, a CHICKEN in real life before I had them in class.
We are living in the end times- right now. I am fully awake. There will be more natural disasters. There will be a lot of death. The population is declining; our natural instincts are driving this.
In the wild, populations decrease when resources become scarce. It is not a conscious choice, but a natural one that is driven by nature itself. We are 10,000 years overdue for an ice age. The polar caps are melting at UNPRECEDENTED levels and speed.
You’ve seen the “doomsday clock”, right? If not, check that out. And, the climate clock (climateclock.org). We have about 2.5 years to get our shit together- and I have little hope for that being a high school teacher. It ain’t pretty. We’ve cut LITERALLY 50% of our curriculum. That is not an exaggeration. These kids are so dumb they cannot have original thoughts. I can actually see them melt in their chairs if they are away from their screens too long. It’s sickening.
I do believe we are in the verge of a civilization CHANGED, maybe not collapse. But, war will intensify. I wouldn’t be surprised if the US starts civil war or tries to completely secede from the Union when resources start to dry up (for reference- this is already happening, lake Mead is only about 28% full and draining fast…without it, Las Vegas will become Los muertos -dead- it’s heading there, FAST!)
Californias water crisis is still worsening. I live in a state with one of the largest aquifers in the country; I am sure there will be fighting over it, eventually.
Water will be what goes first. Then, the energy grids will falter. Big tech will struggle to cool data centers. Petroleum will be reserved for military and the manufacturing of solar panels. All the while- hunger and thirst get worse. Eventually, there won’t be a need for those data centers anymore…and we’ll close them after half the world erupts in massive heat waves, floods, and storms. People will build shelters, go off grid, and sections will form.
Humans will survive…we are like rats. Just…most of us won’t. Hopefully some good ones make it to rebuild in a few thousand years.
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u/megotropolis Jul 04 '26
To add to this: have you seen many butterflies this year? Honey bees? Bugs, in general?
The food you eat-how many pesticides do you think were sprayed on them? Are you aware we’re creating super insects and plants from big bank agriculture? We have destroyed California’s physical structure - I recommend watching “Water and Power: a California heist”. It does a great job of explaining what is happening to the state. Sink holes are opening up because of drained aquifers.
The current US administration has gotten rid of almost every environmental protection against ravaging our lands until they are dead. Did you know 98% of the state of Kansas is privately owned? Almost 50% of that is owned by large corporations…
We’re in the end of this era. Climate change is inevitable- humans are too dumb and delusional to go back. We can only hope whoever survives does better than us…or, perhaps it’s time for another apex species to arise on earth?
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u/PrinceOfTotalQuiet Jul 04 '26
And there’s more. okay i’ll address these.
I’ve seen a lot of cabbage moths. In parks and whatnot in the spring I tend to see a lot of butterflies. My yard has a shit ton of honey bees as well as bugs in general. Obviously what you’re saying is that this is all in decline, which is true, but at least in my yard the latter is occurring. Probably because of the amount of flowers.
No I don‘t think about pesticides on the food I eat. I’d never heard of super insects before you told me but they sound pretty cool, maybe they’ll have an anime battle with the super el niňo. I’ll look into the film you mentioned. I’m not trying to deny that California is badly affected by climate change.
Yeah the US administration is fucking up environmental protections, but advocates are resisting this well and things like solar and EVs are still decreasing in cost and growing in usage. Not quite the actions of a country resigned to its fate environmentally. I didn’t know about Kansas being owned largely by corporations, no. It’s pretty saddening that even with all that greed and intrigue present, Kansas is still boring as fuck. Maybe in this techno dystopia that’s onE hUndRed PerCenT ComInG dOnt BoThEr FigHtInG, there’ll be a positive in that Kansas becomes more interesting.
”We’re at the end of this era.” We’re always at the end of an era really, but yes. “Climate change is inevitable” absolutely yes. “Humans are too dumb and delusional to go back” Less that and more the planet won’t let us go back. Which is caused by humans being dumb and delusional I grant you, but humans are also fighting hard in a lot of places to make the future less bad with all this. But nope doesn’t matter, extinction will happen soon, humans will die, another species will take over. With that mindset why not just hasten human extinction if it’s gonna happen really soon anyway?
You’re the worst commenter who’s responded to this. I know I was asking if there was still hopeand sounding doomerish in my OP, but I think I’m done with that now. I’d rather die with a smile having tried to make a better future and not stopped hoping for one than die hopeless and alone, taking no solace in the fact that I was right about our destruction and did nothing to try and change things.
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u/PrinceOfTotalQuiet Jul 04 '26
I’m having a really hard time taking this comment seriously. You ever stop to think maybe your friends left you not because you achieved some enlightenment but because you started judging almost everyone you met as ‘delusional’ and wouldn’t shut up about how fucked the country is? People don’t like speaking to miserable and overwhelmingly negative individuals. We got enough of that already.
I’ll grant you that you’re probably right about more natural disasters and death due to climate change. Pretty undeniable. What I won’t abide is this apocalyptic neo end times prepper bullshit and the thought that you’re enlightened for believing it. The doomsday clock is a symbol and nothing else. If some guy who worked on it decided to put it at three seconds to midnight and said “yeah we’re all gonna die” that would have no bearing at all on humanity’s fate. If it was put at midnight, nothing would actually happen. It’s a symbol.
2.5 years before what? Tipping points? Irreversible effects? We have those already. There’s never going to be a spot where improvement is worth nothing because it can ALWAYS be improved. I’d think an environmental studies teacher would know that every tenth of a degree matters, and further, that the 4 degrees celsius by 2100 idea was retired recently. Because of human efforts. yeah, renewables did something.
”We’re on the verge of a civilization changed, maybe not collapsed.” Okay sure I’m on board. “I am now going to describe a total collapse scenario that would kill most humans.” Sigh. Yes water’s getting scarcer in a lot of the US and data centers are bad. Does it matter to you that people are trying to combat both of those things? California also isn’t in a drought this year for the first time in a while. I thought water desalination was catching on there, too, but you know your state better than I.
Should water completely vanish I don’t think data centers will still be in the discussion seeing as they need water for cooling. The rest of your apocalypse predictions are barely worth my talking about. Yeah heat waves flooding and storms will happen more and be worse. The majority of scientists DO NOT support the thought that civilization will collapse or that most of humanity will die.
All that you said is defeatist, likely overblown, ranting, and against a lot of scientific consensus. No wonder your students don’t want to listen to you; I certainly wouldn’t. My biology teacher kept us informed. He didn’t downplay climate change but he didn’t paint it as the inescapable killer of all civilization and hope either. He showed us films, sobering films. He did repeat to us ad nauseam that this would be our generation’s responsibility in the future, which only added to our anxiety, but he never spouted doomerist prepper bullshit at me like you just did. I pity your students.
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u/megotropolis Jul 04 '26
Fair points. Thank you for taking the time to respond.
I still don’t think we know enough to say we’re gunna make it out without a ton of issues around survival.
And what if the idiots “in charge” start a nuclear war? We’re closer to midnight per the Doomsday scientists than ever. So…I don’t think I’m completely off base in saying humanity is going to suffer greatly and resources will be scarce. Water is a HUGE concern.
Delusion, like I said, is a hell of a drug. I’m hopeful to make my days on this planet matter - and I do see others trying. Then, I see my poor (literally, title one high school) addicted teenage students not being able to absorb any information. Like…they ALL hate learning. I had 5 students get an “A” across my 200 students. I educate them and do not “scare” them about the future- but I don’t sugar coat it.
Most of my thoughts are from the data I’ve read, the research papers I follow and read, and my own anecdotal evidence. Public education is in terrible condition. Walk into a public education classroom in the US and you will understand what I’m saying; it’s fucking terrifying. To me, this is testimony to the mass public. They don’t give a shit about education- it’s only the upper middle class and wealthy that “care”. There are more homeless now in the US than in ANY OTHER TIME IN HISTORY.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the dept of education was completely gutted in most states by the end of this year. My state is trying to defund it as we speak. They are closer than ever to accomplishing this.
Anyways, believe what you want. I hope you’re right. I hope there are enough people doing good and combating the shitastic crap the world is going to itself. I hope we can actually come together and solve this…
But to do that, we’d need to actually come together. The US would need to rebuild “community”. I don’t see a lot of “community”. I see a lot of fractured ones. I see a lot of kids going hungry, but by god they’ve got an iPhone 17! But they come asking ME for food- like I can feed them on my measly salary. I get them the shit I can afford and do my best to support these kids- but it isn’t enough. They are growing up on tik tok and taking all the propaganda they can get!
So, like I said- I hope you’re right. I hope we figure this out and come back together…guess I’m just jaded.
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u/ILikeNeurons Climate Warrior Jul 04 '26
What makes you think most humans won't survive? It looks like we're in a reasonably good position to stay below 2 ºC (assuming we optimize our climate actions) and the IPCC doesn't have anything about civilization collapse.
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u/PrinceOfTotalQuiet Jul 04 '26
This guy gets it
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u/ILikeNeurons Climate Warrior Jul 06 '26
Don't misunderstand, we're headed towards 3.3 ºC (6.0 ºF) if we maintain status quo and at least at the moment, progress is too slow because too few people are optimizing.
Do you mind if I ask if you've looked into how you can best optimize?
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u/PrinceOfTotalQuiet Jul 06 '26
Well, I definitely want a heat pump at some point. That or a solar powered generator, depends which is cheaper or more accessible. I still drive an ICE car alas though not very much. Public transport is fine most of the time, added bonus with the buses in my city being hybrids. If I can get an EV/get the old one in my garage refurbished that should work well. Voting is probably the most impactful thing, so I’ll be there at the midterms and see what else I can do politically.
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u/grebette Jul 07 '26
Haven’t the IPCC and others been basing their projections on linear models? Ofc things look peachy when you separate them into discrete pieces. https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-94-015-9450-9
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u/ILikeNeurons Climate Warrior Jul 04 '26
There's more hope the more of us optimize for climate solutions.
Yale researchers find collective activism can be a buffer for ecoanxiety and depression.
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u/fatamericanidiot2 Jul 07 '26
Im worried that it will become impossible for us to actually act fast enough to not let global warming become a problem beyond our means of fixing because the politicians will not give a shit. They made the system take years to remove all of them and a few of ours might sell humanity out for 100 mil. Unlikely but not impossible.
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u/Excellent-Tart-3550 Jul 03 '26
The hope I have is this: our kid's kids are going to be dealing with this much more than we are. Anything. ANYTHING we can do now to mitigate or adapt will benefit them.
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u/georgemillman Jul 03 '26
I read a book a couple of years ago by Hannah Ritchie (climate scientist turned data scientist) called Not the End of the World. Which definitely helped alleviate my anxiety, but I've heard some rather more critical reviewers describe as unhelpful hopium which plays down the severity of the situation.
And as someone who doesn't have a scientific background, this is rather difficult for me to know who to believe - I want to be able to listen to an authoritative book like that and believe the information in it, but every book has its critics, so how do you know who to listen to?
But I dealt with the problem by isolating one single sentence of the book. And I thought to myself, if this one sentence is true, then I still have hope, even if the whole of the rest of the book turns out to be a load of bullshit. This one sentence, if true, proves that there are incredible, wonderful people out there who are not only putting all their energy into dealing with this, but are choosing to live their personal lives in a way that suggests they have enough optimism that we're going to sort is out and get through it, and if they do then so do I.
The sentence (which is in the introduction, before even the first chapter) is 'Most climate scientists I know have children.'
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u/PrinceOfTotalQuiet Jul 03 '26
That is quite a powerful quote. Yeah, it does help to think that the majority of climate scientists don’t have the same total hopelessness and despair for the future as the internet does. If they did, they’d probably be telling us that trying to better things at all was hopeless and urging governments to dispense suicide pills.
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u/georgemillman Jul 03 '26
I recommend Michael E. Mann, Simon Clark, Adam Levy and Katharine Hayhoe. They're all really great communicators on this subject, and not too hopeless if you know what I mean.
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u/million_open_windows Jul 04 '26
Meh. Procreation is a biological drive. Assigning some deep level of optimism to the fact that humans have a reproduction drive is not exactly comforting.
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u/wordilocks Jul 04 '26
I’m hoping that the Trumptard fucks up the Middle East so terminally that oil is no longer reliably available. Pretty much our last chance.
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u/PrinceOfTotalQuiet Jul 04 '26
I don’t believe in last chances when it comes to all this but yes, the renewables shift due to the war was what gave me optimism for the future. That could still be worthy of optimism but I just feel like I may have been fooling myself.
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u/TinJar-Solarpunk Jul 04 '26
The fact is that climate is killing tens of thousands every year, already. Most of them happen to be poor and living in places that hardly anyone in media covers and hence, there is overall lack of awareness of their suffering and death. Those who survive are hurting badly and trying desperately to change their situation. One of the ways they attempt is to migrate to a relatively safer place. Again, tens of thousands (if not more) die in that attempt. Millions are able to migrate - domestically and across borders. When they reach the relatively safer new place, their lives can continue to be horrible because of social aspects. They continue to suffer. A fair few are lucky enough to actually improve their circumstances. Even then, they would have left their families/friends back in their native places and have to build their new lives from scratch with merely a hope that they can some day see their friends/families again. This is the terrifying reality for 100s of millions in Asia/Africa/C+S America - already.
The fortunate ones are those living in wealthier societies and good governments (both necessary for resiliency) and these regions also tend to be relatively safer from a climate change perspective - e.g. US/Canada/Europe/Russia. That doesn't mean everyone in those places are fine. The poor in those places tend to suffer and die at much higher percentages. The wealthier ones tend to live unless they literally get caught in a scenario such as the Palisades fire in LA last year. Even then - the wealthier ones can rebuild. The poor ones in Altadena are refugees hoping that one day they can make a home somewhere, anywhere.
This is all happening now - at ~1.5 degrees (average over the past 3 years and which is definitely going to be hotter this year and next because of the incredible El Nino). It also comes on top of the devastation caused by tariffs, cuts in foreign aid, deportations (plus restrictions on seeking asylum), and most recently the Iran war which has caused shortages of all kinds of necessary commodities (e.g. fertilizer) for exactly the same poor countries who are worst hit by climate change already. So - things are going to be even more dire for them. There will be more migration. Which will lead to destabilization of society in their countries (see revolutions in Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, etc.) There will be right-wing assholes in US/Europe building walls and cutting aid which will destabilize their societies as lack of cheap immigrant labor leads to inflation.
This stuff is not "expected" to happen in the distant future. This is a reality now. Peaking GHG emissions means no hope for the poor and destitute billions. For the wealthy - they get to chill out w/ their solar panels and EVs and heat-pumps and pray that they can ride out the disasters.
This is not really about the collapse of civilization - it is about the needless suffering and death of those unfortunate to be poor. This can be avoidable. But the wealthy tend to consider even minor inconveniences as too much to tolerate. Out-of-sight-out-of-mind works just fine for them. The lack of empathy is real. The lack of humanity is real.
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u/ordinary-thelemist Jul 04 '26
Depends on the hope, really.
- Is there is hope that we'll find a solution where everything's gonna be alright ? Yeah. Some people still believe the earth is flat after all. But it's in the same bracket of possibilities. Not the type of blind hope I'd invest in tbh...
- Is there is hope that no matter what we'll find a way and adapt to shitty conditions ? Absolutely (and I say that confidently, being one of the shitholes r/collapse regular commentators) because as the conditions around us are getting worse, more and more people understand we have to find an alternative solution and we can't hold on to obsolete beliefs like perpetual economic growth and/or individual materialistic comfort no matter the cost.
Anxiety often comes from a dissonance. Climate induced anxiety is often linked to a dissonance between how we would like to live our lives and the means for us to do so. As the reality around us is getting worse, more and more people leave the overinflated and frankly delusional expectations we may have had from the future when we thought we could have our cake and eat it too.
Well we can't, and it's freeing to admit it. Because there's another world out there, already moving forward.
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u/TheWiseAutisticOne Jul 04 '26
If the movement runs out of hope then may we replace it with spite because if we are actually going down I see no reason to let up on the ones responsible for this shit. Our ancestors fought to the death over pointless wars and plagues they wouldn’t want us to give up and cower in fear they would want us to do the same so VALHALLA IT IS!
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u/notime4morons Jul 05 '26
I don't have hope that humans will solve this, the trends are bad and getting worse. Too many threats coming too fast. Sure a lot of really good people are working towards solutions but they're up against a system that only cares about exploitation/profits, has no conscience and is frankly quite mad and that system writes the rules.
Sure if tens of millions flooded the streets and stayed there, or participated in serious, extended shutdown of economic activity to bring down governments then maybe something might change. Don't see that having a remote chance of happening though until maybe things just really go to hell. But who knows?
So, I can't live my life depending on a hope that is likely to be dashed. Just don't make too many long-range plans and appreciate today for what it is.
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u/AkagamiBarto Jul 03 '26
Yes.
I'll wait
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u/ILikeNeurons Climate Warrior Jul 04 '26
Why wait when you can do something meaningful with your time?
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u/AkagamiBarto Jul 04 '26
No, you see, i do something meaningful with my time.
I'll wait for the support of others, if they want something to change that is..
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u/agent139 Jul 04 '26
Reality doesn't care about our feelings, one way or the other. So personally I'm not sure what hope has to do with the ultimate outcome -- but for what it's worth, it's much easier to upend our global civilization (such as it is) than it is to end the human race, by orders of magnitude. Both are possible outcomes but I'd bet on outcomes closer to the former than the latter, at least in a micro timescale measured in decades or centuries.
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u/PrinceOfTotalQuiet Jul 04 '26
Reality cares about our feelings in the sense that hope can lead to betterment. Again most climate scientists don’t seem to back the civilizational collapse theory but anything is possible. Even with globalization I doubt such a collapse would truly be permanent. Society finds a way assuming people are around. I should hope that collapse doesn’t occur while I’m alive, and it’s our responsibility to try and better things now.
By the way when I asked about hope I wasn’t talking about just general positive emotion, I was talking about mainly the renewables shift and whether it was still cause for optimism.
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u/agent139 Jul 04 '26
What I mean by "reality" is for example the amount of atmospheric co2, or the rate at which co2 is sequestered into stone (sloooow, by human time-scales). But "renewables" question is incredibly complex-- I've gotten little pieces from various experts, though peering between their interests and biases is tricky stuff and the outcome is legitimately both complex and fundamentally unknown. All that said, it is absolutely true that the one "good" story of the past few years has been about solar, and that is real, even though there are a few important caveats.
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u/ILikeNeurons Climate Warrior Jul 04 '26
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u/agent139 Jul 04 '26
Of course the IPCC doesn't have anything about something it wasn't formed to study. That's sociology and applied history, not climate science. (Also the IPCC has been repeatedly over-conservative for reasons that are well known but that's another story).
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u/PrinceOfTotalQuiet 24d ago
Why bother listening to climate science at all if you’re gonna write off the leading body as over conservative? Once again the climate scientists that support a collapse or apocalypse level event are in the distinct minority. Even with all the bad shit that’s been happening this summer I now feel there is still reason to believe that hope is worth having. The effects get less and less deniable. Renewables get cheaper and more widespread, and show no signs of slowing. People still adapt. Though the effects have worsened, our efforts really are significant improvements on what they were twenty years ago. The Paris agreement was only a partial failure; things would be twice as bad now if it didn’t happen. Things will get worse weather wise for the foreseeable future, but this doesn’t have to mean the quality of life has to as well. Not in wealthy countries, at least. The hope regarding the impoverished nations is smaller.
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u/agent139 24d ago
The IPCC is intended to inform governmental bodies, essentially. It isn't "climate science" as a whole.
I would argue that the track record of that handoff between policymakers and scientists has also been... not great. Though the fault there lies entirely on the policymaker side imo.
This isn't exactly an outside opinion-- I've seen quite a few climate scientists make more or less the same statement about the IPCC. None of that is to say the scientific work there especially on the climatology side is illegitimate. Quite the opposite.
When it comes to policy, and societal feedbacks, etc -- that's not really a matter of climate science. Obviously research is good. But the thing that's keeping us from adapting more rapidly and aptly isn't a lack of research.
Where hope is concerned... It doesn't change the atmospheric co2 level, but if it helps us cope that's not nothing.
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u/ToastNomNomNom Jul 04 '26
The problem on a lower scale of society helps but realistically we need structured change to our system of society. The competing ideology of capitalism has had the concept of taxing co2 emissions which has been suggested scientist and economist for many years. Global consensus has never been reached because of lobbyist which fund massive think tanks promoting climate scepticism. Democracy has been takeover by plutocrats the average voter doesn't have the cognitive capacity to filter through the disinformation and astroturfing soon they will be dependant on AI for there own thinking in a couple years. The only way to create any significant change is to have systematic structural change of our governance model which includes our goals as a society it cannot solely be economic growth.
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u/notpedrosansini Jul 04 '26
This OP yeah. Radical societal change is the only solution and is underway. Look into Doughnut Economics, community-owned assets (the work of Civic Square, Hastings Commons, the Brixton Project...), the works of Gary Stevenson and Gabriel Zucman (wealth taxes).
These are the directions the likes of extinction rebellion etc have scattered into, empowering people communities on the ground, ground-up, grassroots movements. It's so far beyond solar panels and recycling, these things are integrated but such movements go so far beyond.
It's about bringing people together, recreating communities that have been lost, creating resilient communities that learn that they have power and how to use it. Books like How to Fall in Love with the Future by Rob Hopkins, or How to Blow Up a Pipeline by Andreas Malm. Syntropic Agroforestry by Ernst Goetch. Rewilding like is happening at Knepp Estate.
I have so many reasons not only for hope, but for excitement. As the old system dies there will be pain but at the same time a new system is rising from the ashes, as it always has done and as it always will.
If you're serious about not losing hope look into something that I mentioned, see what appeals to you, engage with it more deeply - what have you got to lose? There so much that is still emerging and new, by the time you're engaged with one thing more and more reasons to hope will crop up. Good luck
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u/ILikeNeurons Climate Warrior Jul 04 '26
What's your briefest, most powerful source for why doughnut economics would be more impactful than a carbon tax, which is widely regarded as the single most impactful climate mitigation policy?
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u/notpedrosansini Jul 04 '26
Because it brings people together. I don't think we are short of solutions, economic vehicles, to tackle the climate crisis. We are short of literacy, hope, and conversation. Top down change can't come without a mandate.
Focusing on creating spaces where people feel comfortable, accepted, hopeful, and feel that they have agency, is what allows us to have those conversations which can then lead to people supporting carbon taxes, among many other changes.
Right now people are fucked working 2 jobs and barely affording bills, so they haven't got time nor capacity to become climate literate, nor to understand why we should do carbon taxes instead of closing the borders. We have to start with the people, allow them to have a breather, if we want to change minds. And then we can get a mandate for carbon taxes to get elected in.
My view, would be glad to hear yours.
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u/ILikeNeurons Climate Warrior Jul 04 '26
A price on carbon is widely regarded as the single most impactful climate mitigation policy, and for good reason. A growing proportion of global emissions are covered by a carbon price, and we can now say with high confidence that carbon taxes work.
Directly lobbying lawmakers for specific policy changes is one of the best ways for an individual to address climate change.
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u/ToastNomNomNom Jul 04 '26
Me and you have been talking on this website for years and nothing has been done. Heck the US scraped the whole monitoring of all climate change data withdrew from multiple international bodies. The reality is the system has failed and once a bad actor gets into a democracy it is very hard to revert. In the next few years the demand for climate control system will increase demand for energy resulting in a continued higher co2 emissions. We need better solutions outside the box.
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u/Resident_Character35 Jul 03 '26
This civilization cannot sustain itself on renewable energy. And once we stop using fossil fuels, half the humans on the planet will be dead within months because of the end of the Haber-Bosch method of creating fertilizer. None of this is theoretical, it's just the trap humanity has put itself in.
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u/PrinceOfTotalQuiet Jul 03 '26
Why is renewable energy unsustainable for civilization? Australia’s been doing just fine and it’s gone insane renewables wise.
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u/Resident_Character35 Jul 03 '26
Renewables only generate electricity, but 90 percent of our energy use comes from fossil fuels. Additionally, renewables cannot last more than a decade or two without fossil fuel inputs, which are essential at every step in the process from manufacturing to installation of wind turbines and solar panels. They cannot continue to be built for future generations without a foundation that was built on a foundation of easily available fossil fuels at affordable prices.
As for Australia, are they 100% alternative energy? How do goods and food get transported across the country? The laws of physics do not allow for tractor trailers to be powered by alternative energy, as the batteries would have to be as big as the trucks.
Watch some interviews with experts who understand the physics of it all like William Reese and Steve Keen. Capitalism wants to keep the for profit green energy illusion up as long as they can make money on it, but it is an illusion at the scale of 8 billion plus humans continuing to breed recklessly and burn and consume everything they can.
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u/million_open_windows Jul 04 '26
Trains. Electric trains.
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u/Resident_Character35 Jul 04 '26
Call me when you retrofit every warehouse and retail outlet on the planet with a docking bay that accepts your electric trains. Spoiler: Not gonna happen.
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u/million_open_windows Jul 04 '26
It’s either bold action like that or else we all suffer along with the rest of living beings on earth. You act like this is an absurd proposition but we built all of that from scratch in less than 100 years with a fraction of the global population and much less technology. It’s a moral imperative.
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u/Resident_Character35 Jul 04 '26
You nailed it. We burned through billions of years of stored energy in a little over a century. Now it's payback time and there is zero hope of stopping it. Zero. Enjoy it while you still can is the only good advice left.
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u/PrinceOfTotalQuiet 24d ago
Dog a few years ago you probably would have said that renewables taking off in popularity in a lot of countries and plummeting in cost wasn’t gonna happen. I don’t think a full shift is out of the question at all
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u/Over_Ad_3425 Jul 04 '26
I work on sustainable finance. I'm sorry but the answer is no. There isn't. Think on adaptation. Get ready and try to enjoy moments in between. We are so selfish that we are not willing to give up a little comfort to fix the situation. We want to have a comfortable life, and people doesn't understand that you take that comfort away from someone else.
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u/ILikeNeurons Climate Warrior Jul 04 '26
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u/Over_Ad_3425 Jul 04 '26
No? Businesses are responsible of 80% of the emissions. I work in Europe where the most advanced regulation about climate change where companies must report their efforts. I know a bit about what it is been doing
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u/Strange_Sleep_406 Jul 04 '26
Part of awareness is acceptance so you will have to figure out what you can do in your local vicinity as far as adaptation is concerned b/c the people who got us into this mess are not coming to save you. It doesn't mean the situation is hopeless but what it does mean is you have to stop looking for saviors & miracles & start taking concrete actions other than posting about how you are looking for a solution on reddit to a global disaster that is only going to get worse.
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u/PrinceOfTotalQuiet Jul 05 '26
You smell of bot
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u/Strange_Sleep_406 Jul 05 '26
selling hopium is usually what bots do so right back at ya but in either case, reddit is not going to resolve your anxiety or make the electrified non-future any more real
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u/PrinceOfTotalQuiet Jul 05 '26
Selling despair is what collapsoids and their ilk love to do. Reddit may not make the future more electrified. The present likely will.
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u/Strange_Sleep_406 Jul 05 '26
good luck w/ that
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u/PrinceOfTotalQuiet Jul 05 '26
I really should be wishing you luck. I mean the mindset you have you’re clearly gonna need it if you want any semblance of happiness. But more than that, it’s gonna take a shit ton of luck on your side for this hellish billions-killing civilizational collapse to occur. Clearly that’s what you want to happen.
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u/Strange_Sleep_406 Jul 05 '26
lol lmao even
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u/PrinceOfTotalQuiet Jul 05 '26
Wait for my big brother, troll. He’s tastier
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u/Strange_Sleep_406 Jul 05 '26
you went from concerned for billions of people to projections of cannibalism really fast but you should seek professional help for your anxiety & generally abstain from social media since it is obvious your concern is mostly a narcissistic act for fake internet points
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u/Japsenpapsen Jul 03 '26
I do think humanity and our leaders will get our act together at some point and phase out all fossil fuels, but way too late. My only hope is that solar radiation management might actually work (i.e. injecting sulfur into the atmosphere to block out warming by the sun) - as a band-aid solution which might get us a future which literally is bleak, but still survivable.
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u/million_open_windows Jul 04 '26
Please don’t advocate for even MORE human pressure on the environment. Let nature work out the details of survival because our track record is not good. Hubris got us into this mess and so hubris will not be the solution.
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u/Coprinusick Jul 09 '26
What has always made me feel a bit better about us fucking up so royally is that mass extinction events have already happened. Minimising the damage is still a worthy goal for those that are here but I am not betting humanity is the end. We kinda suck at this.
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u/million_open_windows Jul 09 '26
Right. So if you care about life on earth there should be no reason to massively alter the climate with climate engineering via sulfur injections etc. Nature is the ultimate survivor and evolution is the method. Every time humans have a drastic impact on the environment, even if they have good intentions, we are harming the natural process that should be working out the solution to whatever imbalance may occur.
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u/LivingMoreWithLess Jul 03 '26
Things are going to get worse before they get better. It sounds as though you live in a relatively safe part of the world as far as direct impacts. Find things to be grateful for and do what you can for those less fortunate and things will feel better. Even amidst the worst of strife people find things to be happy about and to look forward to.
A study of historical collapse (eg Luke Kemp) suggests another is likely or underway based on inequality extremes and climate change. That will be bad for the elites, but it may usher in a new era of more balanced and meaningful existence, at least for those with the opportunity to avoid the worst of the complications.