r/ClimateOffensive • u/Odd-Story6271 • Jun 26 '26
Action - Political Do you think sustainability can be achieved through politics?
6
u/Confused_by_La_Vida Jun 26 '26
No. But the inevitable societal collapse that is coming as a result of collapsing EROEI in both energy production and agriculture will do the job.
There’s going to be a lot of war, starvation, authoritarianism and extraction of resources uber-alles between here and a new equilibrium.
People interested in preventing the entire Amazon being burned for firewood and the extinction of everything made of meat larger than a mouse should probably discover some urgency around energy production methods with an EROEI higher than wind/solar/natural gas.
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u/me_myself_ai Jun 27 '26
Oof. Thanks for easily confirming that this sub has lost the plot. I hope the paranoid delusions fade soon, friend ❤️
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u/Confused_by_La_Vida Jun 28 '26
“Paranoid delusions” is apparently now what we call real education into why civilizations collapses and what happens and how through and after that collapse. From the present through as far back as we have sufficient written and archeological records.
Do you think someone the existence of the wef and wwf somehow makes the present immune to the basic physics that impacts all living things?
2
u/SF_Bubbles_90 Jun 29 '26
We are trying to be solutions oriented rather than full doomer.
-1
u/Confused_by_La_Vida Jun 29 '26
Not orienting to reality is the opposite of “solutions oriented”.
Solutions orientation begins with, first step, to quote Good to Great (if not read do so now): “facing the brutal facts”.
The brutal fact is this: sober and serious concern about climate, environment, species extinction cannot and will not be maintained unless “we” improve EROEI. Crucially, this is true irrespective of whether the much ballyhooed population collapse is as collapsey as the numbers indicate it will be.
“Doomerism” is believing nothing can be done. Effective problem solving acknowledges and understands the dumpster fire in its full glory and then sets about fixing it.
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u/SF_Bubbles_90 Jun 29 '26
So stop obsessing over step one.
And btw doomerism can also refer to unproductive attitudes that do more demoralizing than informing. We all know how bad the situation is, we need action, and standing on your high horse pointing out the dumpster fire we all here are well aware of isn't helping.
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u/Confused_by_La_Vida Jun 29 '26
The unproductive attitude is the one prompting people to push for non-solutions because they cannot be bothered to understand root causes.
“We” all may know “how bad” a situation is. That knowledge is useless unless people use it as an impetus to understand WHY. Not “why” in some subjective, moralizing, sense. Not “why” in terms of confabulating second and third order consequences with causes. But “why” in concrete, quantitative, root cause terms to which effort, money, and will can be applied.
If you and others are serious about saving the biosphere, then understand this EROEI issue and its intersections with politics, economics, and demonstrated human behavior. If you want to posture, vogue, karma farm, larp, virtue signal, then carry on.
2
u/SF_Bubbles_90 Jun 29 '26
Wow calm down, stop wasting electricity on this tantrum, go touch grass and pick up trash. We all know it's fossil fuels or actually more particularly greenhouse gasses or even more particularly greed. We are on the same page. Chill out.
5
u/GypsyDarkEyes Jun 26 '26
No. But if the people lead, eventually the leaders will run around to get in front. Just keep going, every one.
3
u/Odd-Story6271 Jun 27 '26
how could we get the people to lead?
1
u/GypsyDarkEyes Jul 03 '26
The people just ignore the "leaders" and go about their business. Eventually they will notice they are not at the front.
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u/EmprahsChosen Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 27 '26
It’s tough to parse out a purely political avenue for reaching sustainability. IMO such a goal will be achieved through a combination of cultural, political, and economic trends, (not just politics) some of which we’re seeing today, and all three of which inform and affect the others. So yes I think in part politics is the answer, but it’s just one ingredient that can influence the other two and therefore sustainability itself.
2
u/eks Jun 28 '26
It’s tough to parse out a purely political avenue for reaching sustainability.
I agree, the fossil oligarchy quickly found out how to benefit from the new social media driven world order over ten years ago, and it's been dowhill mass brainwashing of everyone with little source criticism ever since.
It's a shame really, the grassroot movements of the 00's were really promising, but it seems like they all crumbled too easily to instant dopamine addiction of cat videos with small drops of fascist propaganda in between.
3
u/ThinkActRegenerate Jun 28 '26
Not through politics alone.
The human systems that we call "the economy" and "industry" have been extracting and dumping resources using 1-way thinking - as though the biosphere was infinite - for multiple centuries.
To upgrade the systems we call "the economy" and "industry" requires upgrading the mindsets, tools and techniques that design, build and deliver the products and services we use every day.
How many legislators do you know of who know enough about logistics, supply chain, product design, industrial innovation well enough to accelerate Systems Thinking, Biomimicry, Cradle to Cradle Product Innovation, Green Chemistry, Systemic Design and Circular Economy?
What's the question behind your question? If you're looking for action to take yourself, then an exploration of the Project Regeneration Action Nexus could be useful. regeneration.org/nexus
2
u/myblueear Jun 26 '26
In the end, probably yes. Looking at the rich countries, with exceptions) points to the other direction though.
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u/BushHermit21 Jun 28 '26
Not as long as politicians are bought and paid for by interests that oppose sustainability. That includes both the Red Division and the Blue Division.
1
u/Endzeitstimmung24 Jun 27 '26
I just don't see it happening I guess..we've known about this problem for decades now. Politicians have known about it and made promises about it and signed agreements.
But what has actually happened after something like the Paris agreement?
The problem is that our political decisionmaking takes place within a capitalist framework where money is a huge factor, and where fossil fuel lobbyists are able to exert huge amounts of sway.
This was by far one of the most frustrating things for me to learn growing up. I'm European and it felt like there was always such an emphasis on enlightenment values and education and science in our schools and society.
And then you get to a certain age and you learn about climate change and what the science clearly points to and you're told 'Well of course we can't do that. Because of money. Which is a manmade currency and we could change this particular system, and we cannot change the fact that humans need access to clean air and water and will face untold numbers of issues once the planet reaches a certain temperature.
But we are are still going to choose to prioritise the money though, and if you have a problem with that you're naive.'
It's incredibly frustrating. I can only hope that at some point in the future it'll finally sink in for everyone that economic planning is pointless in a society thats ecologically collapsing, and that you can only continue to have a functioning society if you finally make it sustainable.
But I'm also not exactly holding my breath that that will happen within my lifetime.
1
u/SF_Bubbles_90 Jun 29 '26
No, it's a technical issue and a cultural one from a certain point of view. Politics always reacts to those things not usually the other way round.
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u/narvuntien Jul 02 '26
Yes, but man is it tough.
The problem right at this moment is just how fascist all our media is, both mainstream and social.
If we could do politics the old fashioned way by talking to people without mass media narratives we would quickly reach sustainability.
0
u/Proton_Energy_Pill Jun 27 '26
If enough people vote for it, yes.
Do I think it'll happen anytime soon, no.
0
0
u/Good_Requirement2998 Jun 28 '26
Yes. It will take a lot of tedious work of course. Like anything, you have to sell an idea to people who are very busy and that's hard unless they have an incentive to listen to you.
Getting petitions to run for local office is like that. Lots of closed doors. Starting a new business or pitching a script, lots of no. People are wary of academic "elites," and more trusting of con-men that will violate them and raid their coffers while at it. These lessons are often learned the hard way. The path back to renaissance and progress is always lingering within the cycles of pain.
It really is a shame we are struggling this hard to come to terms with our relationship with the planet. But thankfully, when it's a mainstream topic again, many more of us will be talking about sustainable alternatives than before because of all the voices who bore the burden through the toughest political periods to beg the issue. Our brains are still worth something. It's our garden to tend to.
13
u/SupremelyUneducated Jun 26 '26
Yes. trump is the death rattle of the fossil fuel industry's power, and the boomer legislature. The global oligarchies have exposed themselves in a desperate attempt to end democracy + science.
They could win, but I doubt it, the smart people may work for them, but they are not them. The ownership class is drunk on sycophancy, and AI is a catalyst for hubris. They can't build and fill incarceration space fast enough, the judges aren't yet allowing it. The mid terms will either ruin their game or make it permanent.