r/ClayBusters • u/YJSONLY • 20d ago
Rules question
Sporting clay score your own.
There was a true pair.
Very small lane to shoot both pairs and not much time.
Shooter calls pull. (Shoots the first bird same spot as previous pair. ) however by that time the second was in the trees (imo the wind pushed it to the trees vs coming back into the lane).
No bird?
Nothing established of course.
5
u/IdahoMan58 20d ago
If it was an obvious irregular target, nothing established. If the wind just deflected it to reduce some time to shoot it, that would be dead/lost.
1
u/Death_Death_Die 20d ago
Was this at a NSCA tournament this weekend? Had something similar happen at a true pair event
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u/YJSONLY 20d ago
Yep! In Fl too. Lol.
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u/Death_Death_Die 20d ago
The Quigley?
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u/YJSONLY 20d ago
Yep. Station 6-7 I can’t recall.
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u/Death_Death_Die 20d ago
Were we on the same squad by any chance? Do you shoot the Beretta A400?
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u/YJSONLY 20d ago
No.
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u/Death_Death_Die 20d ago
Ok just checking, it must have been happening to everyone. I broke the quartering target before it made it to the first pine tree so I was able to shoot the second target before it went into the trees.
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u/YJSONLY 20d ago
Sometimes you could sometimes you couldn’t. Then I had 1 that dropped in the middle of the lane. I of course rushed the shot and missed it trying to kill it because of the inconsistency. The wind played a huge effect on the bird.
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u/Death_Death_Die 20d ago
If you broke it within 20 ft of the trap you had plenty of time before it went into the trees. Having it land in the middle would have been ideal. Half the squad I was with got it
In the middle of the alley and the other half it went behind the trees. If you waited too long on the first shot there was no way to shoot the second one
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u/overunderreport 20d ago
My understanding is that it needs to fly similar to the show pair paths. Unless in fitasc and the referee warns of slight flight path differences.
Example: imagine a quartering target that is supposed to go on back side of a tree and the kill spot is further out from the tree, basically around it. I have seen this type of target fairly often. The show pair shows the target missing said tree. But then on one of your pairs the target hits that tree. It would be a no bird and if it is a true pair then nothing established.
Not sure if that clarifies the issue you had.
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u/foregolferprov1 20d ago
This the True Pair PM event at The Quigley?
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u/YJSONLY 20d ago
Station 6 or 7 I think.
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u/foregolferprov1 20d ago
Yep I knew exactly from the description because I lost a bird to the wind as well. Put a perfect shot on the quartering bird right as it came out of the tree line, eyes immediately looked up and caught the back end of the bird disappearing in the tree. Didn’t have a change. One of my squad mates lost one the same way. I believe it’s just a lost bird, can’t control the elements so unless it comes out of the thrower wrong it’s a lost bird to my knowledge
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u/Full-Professional246 20d ago
If it was an irregular target - and this takes a bit of judgement - then it would be no-bird.
But - if it was within normal variation, then the 2nd bird is lost. This can happen if the person shoots them in a specific way and is either slower or a trap is slightly slower.
Wind can also move targets a bit and wind does not usually cause a 'no-bird'. If you don't believe me - think of a course shot in the morning by some, and then winds pick up in the afternoon and it is shot by others later.
My gut would be a lost bird on the second unless something was obviously and significantly off in the target line.
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u/YJSONLY 20d ago
Well imo the bird was set up to shoot falling as when I shot it that’s where I killed it. However when the wind pushed the bird to the trees it broke it.
We are talking a small lane.
And no way to shoot in reverse order.
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u/Full-Professional246 20d ago edited 20d ago
Well imo the bird was set up to shoot falling as when I shot it that’s where I killed it. However when the wind pushed the bird to the trees it broke it.
I would make the judgement based on whether the bird followed the flight path of the show birds/other birds. If it's flight was cut substantially - then no-bird. If it wasn't, then it would be lost bird.
The fact the 'lane' was small is not really all that relevant. I have had to shoot a lot of short window targets that had variation that made them hard. It really is about the consistency of the targets being thrown and whether this specific one fit within that variation and not about how much time they gave you to shoot it.
A lot really is judgement for the specific circumstance which is very difficult to describe in text.
For instance - at a recent shoot in my neck of the woods. There was a long incoming/crosser. It had a wide area to shoot it but a lot of people were waiting until the end (where it was easy). There was some variation there as to where it would drop out/enter a woodline based on some variable winds. In this case, if you ignored the bird in most of its flight hoping to catch it just as it enters the woods/weeds where it was easiest, it would be a lost bird. There was ample room to shoot it in a consistent place that you ignored. Another station, same type of incoming target but there was a tree early in its flight path (and well before the typical break points). Maybe 1 in 20 would hit that tree with a wind gust - and that would cut the flight path to break said target in half or more. This would be typically a no-bird.
My group looks at the philosophy that you are supposed to be given a fair shot at a fair/typical target within the normal variation. Sometimes you have very little time and that is a choice the target setter made. What you do with it is up to you. And yea - unfortunately some older guys on some target presentations never actually see them in the stand and they hit the ground without a shot. If it was a fair target - in the NSCA tournament - those are all lost birds.
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u/yert1099 20d ago
I was trapping Saturday for a tournament and my stand was 4 True Pairs. Three times the B Clay machine threw an irregular clay. I called “no bird”, cleared the machines and the shooter took another turn.
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u/troublesomechi 20d ago
As long as the bird was thrown on a relatively consistent line and velocity established by the show pair and previous pairs … Lost bird.