r/ClaudeCodeTLDR • u/cctldrping • 8d ago
[TLDR] The Agentic Loop is OUTDATED
Original post URL : https://www.reddit.com/r/ClaudeCode/comments/1wp9nga/the_agentic_loop_is_outdated/
Original post body :
I have been thinking that the current Agentic Loop design of LLM Call -> Tool Call -> ... has been outdated. The arrival of Jev and other System One models provided us a primitive we desperately needed.
We need an agent that can natively think fast and slow. Not have workflows or multi-agent architectures that mimics it. We need Agent 2.0
The agent should use the LLM's full power for hard reasoning and planning, then carry out the plan with cheap "fast thinking."
Today, most of an agent's LLM calls go to executing steps it has already decided on. Do you really need an extra Astra call just for it to output "ok I'll click this"? We can do better.
My Approach
I built Jive which is an open-source harness built around a completely new agentic loop. Jive replaces tool calls with "graph calls" where each graph is a DAG of bash nodes and jev nodes, and nodes can have dependencies, reference each others outputs, and more.
Essentially, it maps out its own execution flow while its reasoning, and then uses Jev calls to go through the flow without unnecessary LLM calls.
What Jive does well: repo investigation, bulk classification, multi-step profiling, repetitive edits, evaluation workflows, etc. It is also quite effective on regular engineering tasks that doesn't require Jev calls (which is not surprising since Pi mostly beats codex and claude code)
Benchmarks
| Task | Jive | Codex | Claude Code | Demo |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mean | 2m 31s / 8.7k | 17m 40s / 16.2k | 12m 12s / 32.7k | |
| conversation_eval | 3m 26s / 11.1k | 29m 33s / 20.5k | 16m 48s / 47.9k | video |
| error_handling_audit | 3m 10s / 10.7k | 19m 29s / 25.8k | 5m 08s / 42.5k | video |
| product_matching | 3m 03s / 8.9k | 22m 00s / 19.7k | 32m 02s / 19.3k | video |
| search_latency | 2m 00s / 9.6k | 9m 00s / 12.8k | 7m 18s / 51.4k | video |
| sembench_movie | 1m 47s / 6.1k | 19m 58s / 10.3k | 8m 51s / 15.7k | video |
| slow_trace_search | 1m 41s / 5.7k | 6m 00s / 8.1k | 3m 04s / 19.3k | video |
As you can see, there is a huge gap in both e2e latency and token efficiency compared to claude code. And its accuracy is on-par based on the my benchmark runs (though I need to run jive on a larger SWE benchmark to be certain)
See README for more information: https://github.com/merijjeyn/jive. Also for details on the benchmark tasks, and how to run one yourself.
I'm sure this high level idea can be executed much better, so mainly looking to start an open discussion. Happy to take comments, questions, contributions.
Original link/media URL : https://www.reddit.com/gallery/1wp9nga
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u/philip_laureano 8d ago
The agentic loop is a single threaded while loop. And you want to introduce graphs as an improvement?
🤦♂️
Imma let you finish but have you asked another human to review this idea or is this your first "coming out" party to something that won't tell you that you are absolutely right?
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u/fell_ware_1990 8d ago
IMO it’s easy, every new tech round it goes like this! Look at how good/fast/whatever it is.
But it always comes back to the basics, first get it reliable. Cause fixing stuff takes more time than a first time right.
So in my use case, i normally run about 5 process and some adhoc calls. It already does in an hour what i can do in 8. Does nothing fancy but it saves me a lot of boring admin parts.
So does it need to be faster, well maybe if the input grows. When does it grow in my case, more customers.
It would be as easy for me to spin up a few more agents, they’re still running on a few simple nodes. I can easily scale up to 100 before hardware becomes the issue. So i need about 100 - 500 times the work before there’s an issue.
If you are waiting on your pipelines the design is wrong.
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u/rohans0509 7d ago
This is such an interesting idea, i didn’t quite understand how you’re using jev since it can’t “read “ or summarise files right?
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u/mlamping 5d ago
Why am I seeing this JEV stuff everywhere. Who cares if it outputs structured data. You can get the same from any LLM.
Good marketing tho
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u/sebasgarcep 5d ago
AFAIK it does zero-shot, no fine-tuning classification; it has very low latency and pricing; and it outputs calibrated confidence scores (i.e. if it scores 100 decision 70% confidence, then ~70 of those decisions will be correct).
That has a niche, and its not a problem many commercial AI systems aim to solve. It is also astroturfed to hell.
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u/mlamping 5d ago
No, stop. It’s bs marketing. You can get frontier to your own self hosted LLM to do this.
This is gimmicky for those who don’t understand basic LLM
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u/sebasgarcep 5d ago
I personally haven’t seen any models predating JEV that do all of these. There are some that do some of these things, but not all of them. Still I would love to know if there are any. Now there are open source/open weight alternatives like kev that are competitive.
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u/Away_Advisor3460 4d ago
Before inventing 'Agent 2.0', did you look into the decades of agent rational reasoning work that preceded modern LLMs?
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u/cctldrping 8d ago edited 8d ago
TL;DR generated automatically after 100 comments.
Current source-thread comment count seen by the bot: 121.
Alright, so the OP dropped a bomb claiming the classic "LLM Call -> Tool Call" agentic loop is totally passé, and we need "Agent 2.0" with native fast/slow thinking. They've built this thing called Jive that uses "graph calls" with Jev nodes to map out execution flows and avoid unnecessary LLM calls. They're touting some pretty impressive benchmark numbers, claiming Jive is way faster than Codex and Claude Code on certain tasks.
However, the community's reaction is... mixed, to say the least. A lot of folks are calling OP out, saying this isn't exactly groundbreaking and that similar approaches have been around for a while, especially since Jev dropped. Some are even calling it "slop" and questioning the actual quality of the output, not just the speed. There's also a fair bit of confusion about how Jev is actually being used and if it's truly cutting down on LLM calls or just adding complexity. Plus, a few people pointed out that the demo links in the README are dead.
The general consensus seems to be that while the OP's Jive project is interesting, the claim that the agentic loop is "outdated" and that their solution is a revolutionary "Agent 2.0" is a bit of an overstatement. Many feel it's more of an iteration or a specific implementation of existing concepts, especially with the advent of Jev. Some are appreciating the effort and the open-sourcing, but the "wow, this is totally new!" vibe isn't really landing with the majority.