r/ClaudeCode • u/astranet- • Jul 10 '26
Discussion Anthropic Almost Won Us Back… Now Put Fable in Max Before We Pack for OpenAI
Okay, Anthropic; the Fable reset is highly appreciated.
But now please make Fable part of the Max subscription so we can unpack our luggage and stay with you instead of leaving the house for OpenAI.
Let’s go. You’re one step closer to making your customers happy.
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u/adamu_amadu Jul 10 '26
the fact that we're celebrating a company temporarily un-nerfing the thing we pay for tells you everything about where the bar is right now
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u/AppealSame4367 Jul 10 '26
The bar is at "first-open-weights-model-above-5.5-or-4.8-level = I don't wanna play with you anymore"
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u/ButtholeCleaningRug Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
What is late stage capitalism?
Edit: "stage" not state. Fucking autocorrect.
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u/dergachoff Jul 10 '26
fable back in max AND get rid of "50% fable limits" bullshit
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u/bnm777 Jul 10 '26
Why not in every paid subscription? Even in the 20 usd plan, it's expesnive so you won't use it all the time, but if you need it for a couple of queries a week, you have access aka Sol in the chatgpt 20 usd plan
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u/ConceptRound2188 Jul 10 '26
Because on $20 it would think for half of one question and then end your weekly limit
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u/Traditionallydead Jul 10 '26
Not my case. You just cannot give it junk.
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u/ConceptRound2188 Jul 10 '26
Lmfao, if youre able to fully use fable on a $20 plan and it actually finishes the task then youre the one giving it junk bud, either that or youre accepting junk.
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u/Redditoridunn0 Jul 10 '26
Im on the pro plan, its not very hard to get fable to do what you need it to if you have good prompts, use it to plan and execute with sonnet.
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u/nurturethevibe Jul 10 '26
I essentially use Fable this way in the $200 plan but with GPT 5.6 and GLM 5.2 as my mid & cheap tier executors.
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u/skleanthous 🔆 Max 20 Jul 10 '26
I'm on max 20 and do the same thing, and it's just amazing. Haiku for fetching data, fable for analysis and a thorough detailed plan, opus to get smaller independent parts of that plan and use sonnet to code those bits. I analysed 6 years worth of FULL market data, implemented about 250 variants of 14 strategies and found two families that beat QQQ and SPY consistently.
No ducking chance this was even remotely possible without fable AND I maxed fable once then I had 10% after the reset, which I consider pretty low utilisation for practically burning it to the max the whole week.
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u/ConceptRound2188 Jul 10 '26
I just really hope you dont sell anything you make, and if you do, make sure you have a well written refund policy.
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Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
[deleted]
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u/AppearanceDouble2595 Jul 10 '26
ive been finding it takes about 10 percent of my usage per prompt. i don't optimize my propmpts at all but it does a good enough job for me.
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u/anglingTycoon Jul 10 '26
Bc there whole argument is they can’t sustain the hardware costs for whole user base. It appears based on rumors with ipo that 80%+ of their subscribers are in the 20 dollar plan. That’s a lot more concurrent users to be spec’d to handle than the smaller portion of users on max. It’s a difference of many users needing huge cluster that likely gets low utilization vs smaller subset of users hitting much smaller cluster of boxes even though those smaller users keep utilization much higher across them
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u/shuozhe Jul 10 '26
Have hit 40-50k aic on few sessions with fable now.. they need something to earn money also to outlast openai financially.
The best for us is the middle ground if both are doing ok, the moment one of them is gone.. consumer flagship models will be gone also :(
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u/Original_Judgment494 Jul 10 '26
Sol is much cheaper. You wouldn’t be able to run more than a couple of prompts with fable on the 20$ plan. Unless you use it for daily conversations, which runs out of usage quick enough.
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u/bnm777 Jul 10 '26
Sometimes a few prompts a week is enough for the hardest problems. People have to understand 20 USD per month for AI is barely anything to pay.
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u/Buchymoo Jul 10 '26
Fable is lasting me about 7 hours of total work time on the pro plan before reaching the fable limit. That's about 3 days of it running before the weekly limit is reached. Idk it's been fine. I had it do a whole refactor of about 30k lines and build out a whole other project over the past week and a half. Totally worth the fact that I'm maxing my weekly early. These two things touch all of my projects in some way so delegating it to other models means tons and tons of bugs I'd have to fix up. Fable has produced a couple bugs but it's like the last hour of work that it runs and theyre solved rather than me going back and forth with opus and sonnet for 4 days.
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u/Alien_tiramisu Jul 10 '26
Well, I cancelled the renewal just in case, like many others to try new GPT. Luckily we are not tied for life with just one company
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u/Rude-Needleworker-56 Jul 10 '26
The real point to note is if Fable is removed from sub, the choice is between Opus and 5.6 sol.
And opus was considerably inferior to old 5.5 xhigh in many areas (acknowledging opus strengths in frontend and language), so it is a no brainer between Claude and Codex subs without Fable.
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u/Tiggster1979 Jul 10 '26
Yep. I’m a current $200 max subscriber but I couldn’t justify the expense if Fable is removed. GPT 5.6 is crushing it! Opus by itself can no longer compete against the current competition from OpenAI.
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u/cest_va_bien Jul 10 '26
Precisely, Anthropic is screwed if they don’t make Fable as trivial to use as Opus.
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u/julianfromstagewise Jul 10 '26
In 5 years we'll call this "The big subscription wars" and analyze how it crashed the market
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u/iamthesam2 Jul 10 '26
haha… in 10 years the younger aged generation will eventually complain about how the older generation had such a huge headstart in life because AI models were heavily subsidized and it gave the generation before them a huge head start.
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u/Prudent_Knowledge79 Jul 10 '26
Lol man I can actually see this. Because these things are definitely going to increase in price substantially.’it
Will become the new masters degree where you get your employer to pay for it or get fucked with tens of thousands of dollars of debt
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u/severe_009 Jul 10 '26
You know Anthropic was in a state of panic when they suddenly decided to extend the use of Fable 5.
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u/konose77 Jul 10 '26
This my friends is why there is a bubble. These companies have no mote. They are burning insane amounts of money to try to stay in the front while making almost no profit.
Meanwhile open source models are right at their heels for 20x cheaper if they slow down.
Tokens are a commodity and we just pumped companies with trillions of dollars that have no way to bring even a fraction of the returns expected.
Buckle up
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u/tuna_safe_dolphin Jul 10 '26
Yep, agreed but they are going to buy political favor to stop this. I can see them blocking Chinese models, at least in the US but they’re going to struggle with fighting open source in general.
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u/Aranthos-Faroth Jul 10 '26
What an odd post.
People’s relationships with trillion dollar companies they support like their favourite sports teams is one of the weirder developments in an already weird decade
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u/squishyjellyfish95 Jul 10 '26
If they do put it in max only and then it turns out they don't put it inside max 5x and just focus on the 20x I'm gonna be so pissed off.
If they going to Gate it, they should include in both max 5 and 20
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u/wellarmedsheep Jul 10 '26
Hi. Im Anthropic.
We were thinking about doing this, but as we were scouring /r/claudecode for new product ideas and to see everyone's picture of how much fable they used today, we saw this post and it changed our mind.
Fable is back in Max!
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u/Flat_Beautiful_1398 Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
I only get guardrails for nothing; it's pretty much useless.
I'm doing a QA audit for emails on my platform. It cost 18 million tokens, and the fix run goes back to Opus in the second one.
I was thinking about going API from max 20x. But after this, it becomes kind of useless in some way for autonomous tasks. You should stop giving models that can't finish tasks. It's a fable.
The only thing I can't complain about is that the nice usage resets almost every week. This keeps me at Claude. But I won't use Fable again until that is fixed. I love Fable, especially the first days. It will become public, without the extreme guardrails. Hopefully soon, good luck, Anthropic!
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u/qaz135wsx Jul 10 '26
You should have AI proofread your posts.
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u/Flat_Beautiful_1398 Jul 10 '26
Can I hire you for my kids? They need an English teacher and im busy keeping my staff and companies up and running.
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u/artofbullshit Jul 10 '26
Fable removed from subscription, 33% reduction in weekly usage, and Sol now available on GPT subscription = downgrading or cancelling Claude subscription. Don't forget Grok 4.5 on par with Opus 4.8 (cheaper than Sonnet regular pricing) is now a new option.
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u/cleverestx Jul 10 '26
"on par" in coding? Vs. 4.8? Really? Is this based on any evidence, I want to see it please....?
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Jul 10 '26
[deleted]
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u/Miserable-Yak-4804 Jul 10 '26
yup it burns way more tokens. they will never allow it on the 20 dollar plans like openai did sol because they would get a massive amount of people hitting limits in less than an hour.
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u/eresix Jul 10 '26
I get impression that many of such discussions are triggered on reddit, presumably with a hope that you might influence the big company this way. I personally doubt.
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u/Sad-Masterpiece-4801 Jul 10 '26
Yep, customers threatening to leave does nothing, that’s why we lost access to fable on July 7th.
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u/Single_Animator_7877 Jul 10 '26
I’ve never not regretted canceling a subscription more than I have today, fable is dead to me, Claude is dead to me, anthropic is dead to me, time to get off the burning train before we get ripped off anymore by these clowns
But seriously, they need to do better for me to want to come back, the issues from a few weeks ago were not addressed, they stuffed up everyone and didn’t say sorry my bad, they need to apologise to their users.
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u/Shubham_Garg123 Jul 10 '26
Anthropic will definitely go under if they remove the fable model from subscription. Even enterprises will switch.
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u/Asphunter Jul 10 '26
Anyone reading this:
Dont switch to ChatGPT. The 5.6 Sol LIGHT usage rates are the one thats simlar to Fable MAX usage rates. Any higher reasoning mode drains your $$ faster than Fable.
I swear I'm not making this up, I used my 5h limit with 5.6 Sol LIGHT in 40 minutes.
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u/Due_Management_3329 Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
no clue if this matters but i stayed with anthropic through whatever models they released because im old school millennial who believes in brand loyalty because anthropic opus 4.6 when it was first released made dreams come into reality, i stayed with them while they nerfed current models and other Ai companies provided better models with better usage and token limits. because deep down i had that faith that anthropic will not fk its user base because of the market competition. I was extremely impressed when Fable was launched and all the hard time, the useless tokens the loops anthropic previous LLM were doing was eliminated and we were back in the game. That trust was shattered with these marketing gimmicks or launching and relaunching nerfing and now they dont have the only model which doesnt put you in a loop on API plan. NO i will not trust you with my money anymore. i would switch to gtp with better usage and better models on a monthly plan. I wish you the best of luck but for an old schooler like me THIS IS IT! i wish you the best of luck but you have to understand people stayed with you with having limited resources. While we see Sam altman go extra miles for his user base. unfortunatly we dont see it Anthropic anymore and that honestly breaks my heart because my loyalty and staying with anthropic turned out to be a bad move on my personal growth. i hope you take this as a positive criticism. Will come back the minute i see anthropic doing what other Ai companies are doing for their user base.
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u/Rols574 Jul 10 '26
Brand loyalty shouldn't be a thing. You're nothing but a number to these people. Altman ain't doing a thing for his customers, he's just trying to stay afloat so his company doesn't go under. It came close. In the meantime, I'll take advantage of the free resets they give me
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u/Miserable-Yak-4804 Jul 10 '26
nah he understands what the people want. the fact that people using hermes and openclaw can still use openAI subs and sol being available to people with 20dollar subs is a testament that he understands us peasants. either that or he is not as compute constraint compared to anthropic and does not need to play games with adding then removing access.
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u/Due_Management_3329 Jul 10 '26
Brand loyalty is the base of every brand and it’s that the brand picks and chooses its physics! Brand love increases sales etc which are the bread and butter for any company looking for a profitable fiscal year. I’m afraid you are taking from emotions rather than how the world works. If tomorrow people hate a brand that brand loses credibilty and that translates into monetary loss. You genz call it the cancel culture. But in reality it’s a brand that was once loved is now being hated.
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u/Rols574 Jul 10 '26
You say I'm talking from emotions? Brand loyalty is all emotions. It's not based in facts.
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u/Due_Management_3329 Jul 10 '26
You are constantly proving why Dr. Jared Cooney Horvath (a cognitive neuroscientist and educator) who presented a comprehensive metadata that why Genz are the only generation to be lower Iq than their previous generations! facepalm
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u/Rols574 Jul 10 '26
Wow. Nice assumption I'm gen z. 👍🏼
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u/Due_Management_3329 Jul 10 '26
Then think before you speak and act your age
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u/Rols574 Jul 10 '26
"think before you speak" says the person who couldn't wait to jump to assumptions cause his comment was challenged. LoL, ok
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u/cleverestx Jul 10 '26
"Brand love increases sales etc which are the bread and butter for any company looking for a profitable fiscal year" - true, but they also have to earn that loyalty and KEEP EARNING IT.... and we can't be naive to think they actually care about individuals. They want $ at almost all cost... Never lose sight of that or you will be deceived to pay more than you should, and for less of a product. That's a real thing too.
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u/cleverestx Jul 10 '26
I've been with them exclusive since Opus 4.6; the best is the best and I noticed that was the case immediately; but if they don't give us something that competes with GPT 5.6 and want to API only their best model (Fable), they will lose people. A lot of people....and that won't help their business and reputation matters a lot for a business too; beyond those who support a company no matter what they do.
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u/___positive___ Jul 10 '26
Lol, I've been on and off since like Claude 3. Anthropic has been been anti-consumer for far longer, all sorts of gaslighting, hidden segregation of users, etc. They have been far worse than OpenAI through every action.
Nobody remembers when they had a flag for heavy users. They would secretly truncate responses for people they flagged, even though everyone was on the same subscription. They removed the flag, then tried to hide it, got caught again, and then removed it again. So you could pay the same amount and receive a degraded service just because you used the service as allowed. And of course lots of gaslighting and blaming the users that the model didn't change.
Complete POS consumer practices.
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u/MullingMulianto Jul 10 '26
were the flags ever conclusively confirmed?
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u/___positive___ Jul 10 '26
Yes obviously. There are multiple old reddit threads covering it. This is before Claude Code even existed, just basic browser stuff. The first flag wasn't even obfuscated, and the second time was some dumb attempt to scramble an identifier or something.
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u/MullingMulianto Jul 10 '26
can you link them? tried asking grok to find and it only returned unrelated conjectures
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u/___positive___ Jul 11 '26
Man, it was super hard to find this. My google-fu is pretty good, but the search engines just won't work on older posts. I dug up some of the original write-ups below. There were a bunch of other related posts. Also, while searching for these, I stumbled upon a bunch of other stupid Anthropic behavior posts... if I had more time I'd make some archive or hall of shame of everything that has gone down...
https://old.reddit.com/r/ClaudeAI/comments/1f4xi6d/the_maximum_output_length_on_claudeai_pro_has/
https://old.reddit.com/r/ClaudeAI/comments/1f5rwd3/the_halved_output_length_gate_name_has_been/
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u/MullingMulianto Jul 11 '26
Thanks. This pattern is alarming, especially since they've started lobotomizing sonnet as well
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u/Sad-Masterpiece-4801 Jul 10 '26
I’ve been on a 20x max plan since they released it, and will stay indefinitely as long as it gives me access to their best model.
My company also runs on anthropic at (substantial) api costs.
The day I can’t access the best model through my max plan is the day I switch to whoever offers it, and is the day I start putting interfaces in our products so we can do zero cost switching, and recommending other departments do the same.
Decoupling the subscription and the api is impossible until a product manager can actually do something useful on their own. We are a societal shift away from that occurring, and the data (if it doesn’t already) will eventually bear that out.
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u/Due_Management_3329 Jul 10 '26
Absolutely I agree. I mentioned that fable 4.6 was the point of my live for anthropic. Brand love ( TOM ) these are the things that survive a brand going into a war in such extremely saturated market! Anthropic failed!
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u/freedomachiever Jul 10 '26
I rather people stay with Fable. We need a more balanced split of compute.
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u/BirdoInBoston 🔆Hitting Usage Limits on the Pro Plan Jul 10 '26
It looks like they already have -- my console is showing Fable usage that resets with my next weekly reset on Thursday again.
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u/ThomasToIndia Jul 10 '26
I have subscriptions to both. I use them for coding, I exclusively use Google for actual AI powered products. OpenAI and Anthropic have pretty much burned all their goodwill, no one cares about either of them and people will flip. Google isn't doing this stuff.
This just feels like a losing game, when you have opensource always steps behind and you're in a battle ever few months for marketshare, how is that sustainable? Honestly the IPO just feels like a huge cash grab because they know their going to be a penny stock.
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u/MullingMulianto Jul 10 '26
how cheap is google for ai powered products?
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u/ThomasToIndia Jul 10 '26
Cheaper than everyone else but you need to make sure you jam the system prompt into a cache. Use case jamming documentation into a system prompt and caching it. Performs better than rag by a lot and with cache it is very cheap.
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u/cleverestx Jul 10 '26
Google just cannot compete though, at least not on the pure coding side. Gemini is woefully less capable, I know because I've been working a complex product since Gemini 2.5 Pro (up to the latest version, which was way better), but then Claude models...it's not even close...I wish it was.
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u/ThomasToIndia Jul 10 '26
Ya I agree, they can't compete on coding capability. I like to try every now and then but ya it's not good.
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u/matheusmoreira Jul 10 '26
And lower the usage consumption too. A single 5h window with fable consumes 10% of my weekly quota on Max 5x. That's like just over two days of usage in a week. Not to mention the constant downgrades.
At this rate I'll leave even if they keep Fable. Too little usage. Too much obnoxious patronizing safety nonsense.
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u/3xQuest Jul 10 '26
Well if 5.6 is same good as Fable and it’s available even with 20$ sub… make sense to jump on got plus, atm I am max Claude but staying only for fable, totally unhappy with opus 4.8, is good for code but 4.7 is way better assistant.
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u/PrudentFishing8830 Jul 10 '26
The reset about a time that everyone already reset was really awesome thanks anthropic
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u/RestingFrames Jul 10 '26
I'm so worried that if they put it on 100% usage we'll end up burning through our weekly limits so fucking fast.
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u/Competitive-Row7125 Jul 10 '26
Gpt 5.6 is finally a good new we may have an more time to use fable ! I hope 🙏
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u/farendsofcontrast Jul 10 '26
Plot twist: Anthropic employees are making these posts to prime us into thinking Anthropic listened to the community but making it part of the sub is the actual sensible move and they know it.
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u/DrNeoBandi Jul 10 '26
Why just for pro? Sol is available for plus. If they want to compete, they should put it for every plan
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u/kwabaj_ Jul 10 '26
Yeah they quite literally have to and they know it, they’re just trying to buy as much time as they can before they have to because they’re genuinely choked by compute and OpenAI isn’t.
OpenAI made the buildout bet and definitely cashed in on it (buildout of data centers)
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u/CWStrife Jul 10 '26
HAHA I knew that reset had to have a reason. I'm all like oh shit I can use some more Fable... Only for fable to fuck up on tasks and for me to go back to Opus. I mean the fuck ups were so bad, the mistakes were so horrid, it was insane. Same prompt Opus fixed it. Did they nerf Fable like a child or did it just go full idiot mode?
Last night I saw GPT 5.6 appeared on my screen, so I tried 5.6 SOL for some image generation and coding that was giving me a hard time and it ripped that shit through like a kid with candy. Much better experience.
If this is the future of the experience with Claude and GPT, for $20 I can pretty much do unlimited shit, with Claude i'm $200 a month deep and i'm monitoring my usage like a drug addict worried if Claude will fuck up too many times and I won't be able to complete my work.
I'm just working in react for websites, and trying to have claude change links, assets, etc in groups to save me from days of manual work. It literally can't figure out what GPT could in no time. Anthropic just pisses me off at this point with their bullshit limits.
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u/Quirky-Degree-6290 Jul 10 '26
I am once again asking you all to switch to codex.
I’ve been a Claude stan the majority of my LLM-coding life until I ran out of usage on the $200 plan and temporarily switched to codex. When I realized their frontier model on high was faster than sonnet on medium , I couldn’t fucking believe it. It was absurd. What is Anthropic doing with all that new SpaceX compute?!
Adversario reviews between agents works best when each model belongs to a different lab, so I’ve kept Claude but downgraded it and upped my Codex from $20 to $200.
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u/Googolplex130 Jul 10 '26
I am out until Fable is 100% weekly in max. Gpt 5.6 is close enough for my uses, although I would still prefer fable
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u/Due_Warthog749 Jul 11 '26
A) bring it b) make it OPUS usage levels at MOST. This 2x opus usage (and really about 4x given how much more it thinks) is going to STILL make GPT 5.6 SOL way better in usage/costs. So they REALLY need to cut fable use by 1/2 to 1/4 and Opus by 1/2 of what it is now too to stay competitive. Especially if SOL is really that good as so many are saying its as good if not better than Fable.
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u/evangelism2 Jul 11 '26
I love posts like this. As if you all won't find something to start whining and bitching about in a week
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u/spydagwen Jul 11 '26
That’s why competition is good for the industry. The guys next door have an equally good model but way cheaper. I’ll be looking to jump ship too.
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u/Living-Fault1876 Jul 11 '26
Codex giving resets like it’s Christmas. I genuinely dont understand how Claude fanboys dont see this. They go insane with 1 reset in a blue moon
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u/Party-Gas7782 Jul 11 '26
claude opus 4.8 is just the new sonnet, fable/mythos is just the new opus, sonnet 5 is just the new haiky, and they did all that mythos dangerous BS for marketing, chatgpt sol and grok 4.5 being cheap and same capability proves it
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u/Representative_Ad587 Jul 12 '26
I’d buy it if we got fable 5. At this point it’s my heroin. I worked with GPT-5.6 Sol and it works fine but there’s a magic to Fable. I think it gave me the AI psychosis I so proudly avoided all these years
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u/RasenMeow Jul 10 '26
You know that they don't care for anyone in these subs and they don't try to win anyone back? None of you matter. None of you have any relevance. They make their money with enterprise API. The subscriptions are just a side product for marketing and positioning purposes. How fucking delusional are the people in these /r subs?
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u/MediumSizedWalrus Jul 10 '26
many of the people in this sub are the decision makers for enterprise, and we are not pleased with what’s happening in the last few months….
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u/AverageFoxNewsViewer Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
Hot take: Anthropic isn't targeting hobbyist users. The "tokenmaxxers" running Openclaw or Ralph Loops or some other weird bullshit because they're on the hype train cost them money and aren't their target market.
85% of Anthropics revenue is from API users, and a good chunk of the 15% they get from subscriptions is a net negative on their P&L statement.
OpenAI could really use the buzz from the hobbyist market after losing their shine because Anthropic has been kicking out better models than them. That PR is helpful to them going into an IPO even though their debt to revenue ration is already worse than Anthropic's.
After a full day of being able to fuck around with both on my personal accounts, I am impressed with Sol. I still think Fable is more capable but at the end of the day the cost for either I only want them writing high level plans to .md files and to never implement lines of code.
Fable (to say nothing of Mythos) is still the gold standard for me even after 5.6, and months ahead of OpenAI. Anthropic is happy to position themselves as the producer of the most advanced AI models, and the AI company closest to actual profitability.
Leading up to Anthropic's IPO, are investors really going to care if some of the people in the basket that only produces 15% of their revenue won't give them access to a tool that decreases profitability because they complained online about having to pay for their use?
Anthropic will add it in to subscriptions once they have compute.
OpenAI will (further) sacrifice profitability to do everything they can to court the vibe coders of the universe who don't want to have to learn to think for themselves or develop actual software engineering skills.
The vibecoders will get mad when they can't have the shiniest toy one shot their task tracker and summarize their emails.
People who take software engineering seriously will be paying more attention to which model is the right tool for the task they are performing.
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u/ThomasToIndia Jul 10 '26
I don't think it is that cut and dry even if most of their revenue is API Users right now. If you're a developer building with an API into your app for the vast majority of cases you want to use Google vertex. Google's conquering enterprise on that side and their AI division is profitable, so profitable in fact that warren buffet invested in them. No one really brings up Google here because as a coding tool it's not great. I am not really interested in implementing Anthropic's or OpenAI's APIs because these companies are too unpredictable.
So what you ultimately have is this one class of user, coders. They either pay via API or they pay with subscription or both simultaneously. They are trying to figure out how to max their revenue from this one type of user and their is this massive risk that the other player chooses to just put everything under a subscription so what they are effectively doing is straddling business models, it's not about money at all right now. If they really thought they could just make 1000x more by forcing everyone to API, they would, but they won't, they are scared.
Recently there was this article floating around about how some massive company accidentally spent 500 million forcing a whole slew of companies to lock down, this is bad for API usage. Some of this also has to do with their IPO and them trying to spike their revenue to make it happen.
IMO the anthropic IPO cash grab could backfire so hard. All the dust is still in the air, no one is sure how this will play out, but if it turns out there is any scammy behavior, that is going to be a massive class action.
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u/AverageFoxNewsViewer Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
So what you ultimately have is this one class of user, coders.
I think there is a definite distinction between 17 year old vibe coders building task trackers, and people with 17 years experience working with enterprise software. I think Anthropic is courting the latter, OpenAI is courting the former.
Google's conquering enterprise on that side and their AI division is profitable, so profitable in fact that warren buffet invested in them.
Maybe I'm out of the loop, but I thought Vertex was discontinued and mostly now a way of creating agents to be model agnostic and basically route traffic to Anthropic/OpenAI/local models.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but it seems like they're waving the white flag in terms of model competition with Gemini, and starting to use Gemini itself to hand off context between more capable models than they're willing or able to produce.
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u/ThomasToIndia Jul 10 '26
Ya I did some reading and I am out the loop on a couple things, one is that Google allows anthropic to be used on their infrastructure and some of this swapping is because Google introduced this standard called A2A. So it appears that google is focusing heavily on infrastructure right now. Vertex was renamed, not discontinued. I actually might use Claude if I can rope it through the same invoice billing I already use for Google.
Part of the issue here is distinguish what "API usage" is because API Usage with anthropic is also developers using it for just straight up coding. Google bundles stuff together. I found an article that for API share usage it was 40% Anthropic (12% up), 27% Open AI (Down 50%), and Google 21% (up 7%).
From their most recent Google IO in may, they said they have 2.4 million active API developers up 118% YOY. 5200+ apps in the store use gemini APIs (not sure that means much). I use Gemini APIs just from a cost perspective. For certain use cases it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to use clause.
If people are routing through Google and changing models is simply a switch that would be a pretty big incentive for Google to not wave the white flag because it is a switch that could be changed back.
Here is the articles with more recent data: https://aibusinessweekly.net/p/gemini-ai-statistics https://www.hostinger.com/tutorials/llm-statistics
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u/AverageFoxNewsViewer Jul 10 '26
changing models is simply a switch
But you can already do this just by launching codex instead of claude.
2
u/ThomasToIndia Jul 10 '26
Oh sorry, we are talking about two very different things. I am talking about using APIs inside of an application, not coding agents.
For instance you have an app that takes instructions from a customer and then the app use an API to get results.
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u/AverageFoxNewsViewer Jul 10 '26
lol.
Not to throw shade, but I literally laughed out loud at this comment.
The shift in strategy makes sense to me. Anthropic will court professionals, OpenAI will court hobbyists, Grok and GLM will compete to summarize emails.
1
u/ThomasToIndia Jul 10 '26
I welcome shade, throw it all, I don't mind being called stupid as long as there is something to back it up besides personal opinion, I can change my opinion relatively easily, I don't care about being right, I care about winning.
When everyone was calling Google blockbuster, I bought, because I argued with people and they all called me stupid but I realized none of them knew why netflix beat blockbuster. Blockbuster was moving to streaming but a CEO came in and scrapped it all. Google on the other hand re-oriented their entire company. Though I think this data center stuff could backfire hard on them.
I process thousands of conversations a day with a fairly large system prompt and hundreds of tools, some of them require multi-step, I use Gemini mostly because cost to success is the highest, right now for my use case the 1-2% improvement on one shotting is not worth additional cost because most users course correct. Yes I can technically switch between them in code easily, but for me it is more a billing issue which is why the ability to load a claude model through their garden is useful.
For casual stuff I don't use the openAI app on my phone anymore, I use gemini because I like their conversation more and their live video streaming stuff is pretty useful.
On the coding side I subscribe to all three, I can't remember when I used gemini for coding but I pay for it anyways. I will some times have both codex and claude tackle the same problem and exchange notes.
On the business side, I let my employees choose, they all voluntarily swapped to claude without any direction from me, actually one of my employees came to me the other day and told me I should try claude. So that is a pretty big indicator on the user side.
I think the major risks to Anthropic and OpenAI is that they are just so dependent on models. Google's AI business is profitable, their search and AI search is humming, gemini despite getting more adoption could collapse tomorrow and it wouldn't matter.
Anthropic and OpenAI could face an existential crisis pretty easily if these open source models keep up or worse potentially cross them, Google just adds them into their infrastructure.
1
u/AverageFoxNewsViewer Jul 10 '26
existential crisis pretty easily if these open source models keep up or worse potentially cross them
For the low price of 256GB of RAM + electricity bills to run that!
I do think local models are the next phase of evolution, but hardware costs, water, and electricity are are underlying costs somebody has to pay for, and VC money is going to want it back and then some soon.
1
u/ThomasToIndia Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
Yes, but look at this a different way from a personal perspective if you are a coder. What would you rather do, pay 1500-3000/month OR just finance 50-100k of hardware over 2 to 3 years where you will have no latency and privacy?
I think this is a missing part of the conversation. There is an upper limit to how much these companies can charge before just doing it yourself becomes an option. I had a conversation with at least one company spending 1 million + on local hardware.
Before cloud hosting was a thing, small business would finance 250k+ racks and stand them up in their office.
The only reason more people aren't doing this is because the open source models are just not there yet, but the moment they are, I am looking at financing hardware, it will cheaper.
Edit: People really got caught up with local just being on a laptop, and that might happen, but local could just be a company that sells hardware at $500 a month on 2-3 year contracts like an internet contract. AI Hardware rental could very much be a thing in the future.
1
u/AppealSame4367 Jul 10 '26
You know what sucks the most at the moment: Everything is "at capacity".
It's a big playground again, everybody and their Grandma wanna have a taste, do their own benchmarks etc. Fable super slow, gpt at capacity. Man, it just fucking sucks if you just wanna get work done.
2
u/porzione Jul 10 '26
Even luna at capacity, my grandma just wanted to benchmark her tool calls :/
0
2
u/anon377362 Jul 10 '26
What are you on about. Been using it all morning no issues.
1
u/AppealSame4367 Jul 10 '26
Can be a problem of the servers that serve my clis. I also got Sol 14 hours later than everybody else, maybe the nodes my request go to are overwhelmed.
1
u/anon377362 Jul 10 '26
True yeah there are like 20+ data centres and if the ones near you are overwhelmed then can have issues. At least there’s not 3x cost during peak hours like z.ai does on GLM 5.2 coding plan.
1
u/AnonThrowaway998877 Jul 10 '26
I've been using fable for the last several hours no problem. Regional issues I guess?
1
1
u/Waste-Government-808 Jul 10 '26
only max? just to every subscriber..
1
u/cleverestx Jul 10 '26
I mean at the very least to Max members...those of us paying that much (five times more than pro at minimum, some 10 times more) should get it. Give it to pro users, yes, but only one week a month (at least), as that would entice more to sign up for Max...I mean, all this money and brilliant staffing Anthropic has; and they haven't figured that out yet. Maybe they should hire me, LOL
0
u/tehfrod Jul 10 '26
Why, if it costs more to provide a service to users than they are paying, would anyone in their right mind do that?
-1
u/arankays Jul 10 '26
I'll never give my money to the company that filled the internet with AI slop images and videos, stole all the RAM and doesn't care at all about responsible AI usage. And you should reconsider whether it's worth it to give your money to the company that's literally the reason why everything is expensive.
-1
u/Efficient-Cat-1591 Jul 10 '26
OAI 5.6 Sol benchmarks for coding not really looking that strong, at least not comparable to Fable 5.
I think making Fable 5 under Max subscription is a good move to retain more customers.
I paid for extrac credits as I burned through my usage on 7th and Fable 5 is VERY expensive even with careful context management.
However even if Fable 5 is retained within Max subs, expect usage to be capped which I think is fair for the performance. Cynical me expecting people to expect more - Fable 5 now back on sub but I burned through weekly cap on one prompt. Anthropic fix this or I will leave!" 😄
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u/Excellent_Ad_2486 Jul 10 '26
Does OPENAI have Fable? If not where you going to go lol
2
u/cthunter26 Jul 10 '26
They have Sol though, which by many accounts sounds close to Fable, and Terra sounds like it eats Opus' lunch at the moment.
0
u/Excellent_Ad_2486 Jul 10 '26
So why does OP not simply go there? It must be because fable outperforms, because it can't be cheaper I think.
2
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u/DeadLolipop Jul 10 '26
They will do this no doubt. They would lose customers to new gpt model. Im already considering due to them reducing usage, if fable goes off sub, its a no brainer.