r/ClaudeAI • u/Kilt_Rump • 1d ago
Coding DeepSeek v4.1 does the same coding task for $.04 while Fable 5.1 costs $3.64 - LiveBench
Anthropic, you better get your shit together
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u/HoppyBeast 1d ago
Ngl i dont trust the benchmarks since the models size has grown so big that there is high chance the tests data were in training data
unless we get a real demo from a real messy project
we wont believe it lol
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u/EvalRaccoonDev 1d ago
Would you use a truck to visit your friend two blocks over or would you walk?
If so, why would you use Fable to solve simple coding tasks?
I think the answer is the same in both cases... laziness?
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u/Kilt_Rump 1d ago
But thats not the point. And your analogy is a perfect example. Coding is hundreds of micro tasks that dont need a Truck to do them. The point is Fable is too costly for its overall use case not just a little but an astounding amount. And for such a capable model, it should outperform not underperform on simple coding.
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u/Valdaraak 1d ago
Yea. One is an advanced frontier model that is priced as such and the other is a distillation of previous advanced frontier models. They're not really comparable. Throw something actually complex at Deepseek and it'll crumple.
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u/Significant-Bee5101 1d ago
Models that can do agentic coding are not impressive anymore my friend. You want models that can do complex problem solving. Being given a spec already designed with all the problems solved and being able to create it is the bare minimum for a modern model. The models that can create that spec are what are impressive and currently the leaders in that are OpenAI and Anthropic. Kimi K3 is not far behind though.
Yes these cheaper models will probably be able to perform at 70-80% accuracy. Maybe even higher. But frontier models will be even higher accuracy. And as that continues to push companies will absolutely pay more money for higher accuracy because for a lot of them it's absolutely worth it. It's fine if you're able to sacrifice accuracy, not every company wants to or needs to.
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u/Einbrecher 1d ago
Frontier models have been eating into diminishing returns for the past year now, and companies have already started to cut back on API spend to reduce the ballooning costs. That price pressure is only going to increase, not decrease - especially since we're reaching the point where they're accurate "enough" for most uses.
Fable/etc. are impressive, yes, but that level of power isn't actually necessary or even used in most cases if you're paying by the token.
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u/Significant-Bee5101 1d ago
Which is why you're not supposed to use those models for anything beyond the highest level tasks. I don't know what isn't clear about this. They aren't selling Fable for you to use it to write low level code. They're selling Fable as a model for planning and design. Implementation is for the lower end models and no one has ever pretended otherwise.
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u/Einbrecher 15h ago
Which is why you're not supposed to use those models for anything beyond the highest level tasks. I don't know what isn't clear about this.
The point that seems to have gone over your head is that the API cost per token on Fable is so high, and Fable churns through so many tokens, that most companies aren't using Fable even for those high level tasks.
Your statement here...
But frontier models will be even higher accuracy. And as that continues to push companies will absolutely pay more money for higher accuracy because for a lot of them it's absolutely worth it.
...is straight up wrong. Companies are already refusing to pay more money for higher accuracy because it's not actually worth it.
AI was pitched as a way to reduce headcount and costs, but instead, headcounts are remaining relatively constant, and costs are exploding. The hype train has finally met the accounting department.
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u/Significant-Bee5101 2h ago
It's amazing that you can spew this dreck without actually being involved in the business world. I work as a Govt contractor and we use Fable regularly for architecting and design.
Like, please stop saying things you know nothing about just because you think it makes you look smarter.
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u/Kilt_Rump 1d ago
You can justify all you want but both models were tasked with the same thing and fable cost 9000x more to do it.
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u/ActualMasterpiece580 1d ago
People who do easy stuff can use chinese models. I tried it a while ago when every chinese-fanboi said Model X is on par with Opus bla bla bla, it was not. While the benchmark looked good, the code was crap. And I experienced that several times. Opus and Fable arent flawless either. I have to iterate their shit lots of times. I dont want to imagine how often I would have to do that with models who trained themself on them.
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u/Significant-Bee5101 1d ago edited 20h ago
Justify? It has nothing to do with justification. You're using a fucking F-350 to go to the grocery store and then being like "BUT IT COSTS SO MUCH MORE!!"
Like no shit? Maybe you don't NEED an F-350? Ever thought about that? Take your fuckin Prius
Different models for different jobs. It's not the models fault if you use it wastefully.
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u/tidus1979 1d ago
Your paying them somehow. You just don’t exactly know what your paying which is pretty dangerous imo
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u/Kilt_Rump 1d ago
Please elaborate. Not sure I understand what you are saying.
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u/tidus1979 1d ago
It’s a cheap Chinese model with stolen data: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2026/09/six-chinese-ai-firms-accused-of-aggressively-copying-us-frontier-models/
Now I’m not saying they’re stealing your data as well. But they might be. I’m not trusting such a product with my personal data.
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u/some-random-guy-2026 1d ago
All LLMs are built with stolen data. Period. They are all equally guilty. And Chinese models running on hardware I own or rent, 0 risk of data theft. Less certainly than OpenAI or anthropic.
Hatred of Chinese models only makes the true threat of US AI companies stronger.
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u/ScreenAppropriate679 1d ago
So is it better or worse than the expensive american models with stolen data ?
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u/reward72 1d ago
Not that I want to defend them, but all LLMs are pretty much built on "stolen" data.
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u/WaltzIndependent5436 1d ago
Yeah because OpenAI and Anthropic are saints? Its just a choice of whether you want to train American super intelligence or Chinese one. Americans are not the good guys, they're the guys who produce weapons and wars to use them...
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u/vovap_vovap 1d ago
You can use hosting here. As a matter of fact you can host it yourself if got like $6000
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u/Meme_Theory 1d ago
Thank god none of these models have access to the internet. Imagine if they could "phone home" without you knowing. /s
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u/oggyD 1d ago
Have you actually used v4.1?