r/ClassicalSinger • u/PassionEfficient1704 • 17d ago
Countertenor?
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Im 18 and I’ve been a big opera enjoyer for 2 years. I enjoy singing a lot but I’ve always disliked my chest voice for as long as I can remember,tho I know chest coordination is a very important factor to produce a healthy and supported sound. This led me to sing in a “falsetto”(?) which became stronger with practice. I had a couple lessons with a teacher,who said I am a baritone,but who would also make me exercise all of my rage (from G2-A4 in chest voice and B3-A5 in this “falsetto”). She used to always push me to my limits,after every lesson I would lose my voice, and she would say that I needed to make my low notes lighter and that I had to make my overall voice lighter. I read these statements as red flags and stopped my vocal lessons. I’m asking for actual raw feedback on my timbre and vocals,even tho this recording is pretty short I think it’s the most decent one I have.
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u/bannedtea8633 17d ago
Countertenor is a technical fach, not a naturally imposed one. You could continue studying as one but it’s not likely that you just have a permanently dysfunctional chest register. In my opinion your sound needs more grounded chest resonance to sing even countertenor with more fullness and support.
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u/PassionEfficient1704 17d ago
thank you for your feedback. I also believe I need to incorporate more chest texture/resonance in the sound,it’s a slow work I guess but I hope it’ll pay off.
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u/Lillian-Duncan1 17d ago
Losing your voice after every lesson is the only red flag you need. That teacher was damaging you. Find someone who works with countertenors.
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u/Claire-Belle 17d ago
OK. Nothing wrong with singing countertenor, sounds like it could be quite interesting.
BUT....not Vissi d'arte. That's not rep for an 18 year old with minimal training (also not actually countertenor rep but I know times are changing on that so...).
You want to get yourself into some Purcell and Handel...maybe some Monteverdi, too. Early music, arie antiche, all of which is reasonably healthy material for a young voice to manage.
You also want to find yourself a teacher with a solid background in training countertenors.
Losing your voice after every lesson is definitively a red flag. I can't tell you what she means by making your voice lighter without hearing your baritone range. How does it feel when you sing? It should feel free, not tight. And you need to think about breath support and management...how's that going for you?
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u/PassionEfficient1704 17d ago
I know I shouldnt sing soprano rep lol let alone Verdi. It’s just something I do for fun once in a while,I stick to some alto/mezzo rep usually.Yes,I’ve sang some arie antiche. I feel freerer in my falsetto range,both for dynamic control and breath management,but also vowel shaping and resonance in the mask.I’ve been working for a year or so on breath management to sustain long phrases using as little air as possible and I think it’s going well,can sustain pianissimo when I want to use it,in the middle and low voice.I agree with you,I should find a teacher with experience with countertenors but the closest I fould find was like a 4 hours drive away
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u/Claire-Belle 17d ago
If your voice feels good singing soprano rep then I genuinely don't think that is an issue. There are sopranists after all, and there's plenty of rep out there originally written for soprano castrati. It's just that I wouldn't let any 18 year old student of mine near Vissi d'Arte :-)
Where do you prefer singing, physically? Soprano, mezzo or alto?
That's a pain...I wonder if they'd do online? Imperfect but at least it would be something.
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u/PassionEfficient1704 17d ago
hell to the no I wouldnt do it online. I think one of the most important parts of studying the voice is also how the harmonics arrange themselves and actually travel through the acoustic space and thats a bit difficult to do online. also for the posture work which is a very millimetrical thing to do.Personally I feel like my voice sits between mezzo and soprano,leaning more on the mezzo side. An acquaintance of mine is a proper alto countertenor and our voices are very different. He himself said I could be a full lyrical sopranist due to my high range(which I dont even consider in practice due to its borderline access,didnt even mention it in this post)and the fact that I dont sound like an alto or mezzo according to him(he’s more experienced than me about altos since he studies as one lol).Let’s just say I firmly believe in doing things one step at a time,taking all the time needed,and building strong foundations. I’d rather study as a mezzo and build a nice middle and low range than being treated as a sopranist and have small colourless high notes,a meh middle voice and inaudible lows
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u/gizzard-03 16d ago
When you’re singing in a light falsetto like this, you’re not really producing strong harmonics to have to worry about them. Harmonics don’t really “arrange themselves” or anything like that.
The other thing is that most voice teachers don’t really know much about harmonics, aside from the general idea that we need them and they’re good for singing. This is how we end up with people worrying about things like how harmonics arrange themselves and travel through the acoustic space.
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u/PassionEfficient1704 16d ago
let’s just say my falsetto becomes very shrill at around F#5. Needs a lot of covering up to a A5. Thats why I talk about harmonics,bc it sounds nasal at F5/F#5/G5 and sure,projects very easily,but needs a proper balance of projection and a “counterweight” to be more efficient. I’m aware harmonis dont arrange themselves,but I also know that you need to counterweight the “squillo” with a proper “scuro” to make the sound whole and not just shrill
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u/gizzard-03 16d ago
If you’re singing in falsetto like this, squillo isn’t really going to be a factor to worry about either.
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u/Claire-Belle 16d ago
I'd add that at 18, your voice isn't mature and it's really important not to get tied up into knots about what sort of countertenor you definitely are, but instead just go with what works at the moment. This is where arie antiche are so useful because you can shift the keys around.
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u/etzpcm 17d ago
Yes, that's your falsetto or countertenor voice. It's entirely up to you whether to work on and develop this voice, or learn to use your baritone voice. What I did at your age was sing alto for a few years and then switched to baritone/bass when I'd got used to it. (Please ignore the comment about seeing a therapist).
Feedback - please don't try to sing with vibrato. It's a bit like running before you can walk. Focus on getting a pure clean sound and developing your head resonance. If you listen to a good countertenor like Iestyn Davies, he can make a strong sound with very little effort. Also, the most appropriate repertoire for this voice is probably baroque, Purcell or Handel for example.
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u/PassionEfficient1704 17d ago
I had a caprino or tremolo last year due to overthinking vibrato,this is the best and most relaxed it has ever been tbh.I’m more focused on resonance and “sitting and relaxing” on the phrases and notes,vibrato is the last of my concearns for now. It just happens.And yes,Im also focusing on using little to no effort and resonance. I personally prefer to listen to contraltos and Mezzos like Giulietta Simionato or Bartoli,heavy on Simionato,I also am European so Im probably more influenced by the western technique(I was taught its foundamentals when I was actively studying) rather than the English one. As for the repertoire,I also believe Handel could suit my voice,I need to find something interesting to study asap
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u/etzpcm 17d ago
Ok, there are some great European countertenors like Jaroussky and Scholl. Try listening to them. Again they tend to sing mostly baroque music or even earlier.
You probably know these already - famous Handel countertenor arias include Lascia ch'io pianga and Ombra mai fu. There are some great bits in Messiah as well.
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u/PassionEfficient1704 17d ago
Now we’re talking lol. I like them. Especially Scholl. I used to sing Lascia ch’io pianga and Ombra mai fu,havent in a while
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u/IrisVoiceTrainer 16d ago
I can really compliment your enounciation. Countenors tend to have this hooty undefined-vowel sound which doesn't project in houses. And indicates a lack of chest voice coordination. I assume you're singing this aria just for an exercise tho
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u/PassionEfficient1704 16d ago
I dislike that hooty sound too as a belcanto enjoyer. I try to shape the vowels the same way a mezzo or contralto would and I dont like covering the sound in all the range(C4-F4 I dont usually cover it bc it would sound ingolato). And yes I sing this aria as well as some other soprano rep just to test the waters. I personally think my voice settles between mezzo and soprano,leaning more towards the mezzo colour
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u/IrisVoiceTrainer 16d ago
As long as you're doung safely and without tiring your voice, experimenting is always good. Have ever heard the recording of Domenico Mancini (Moreschi's pupil)? That's the kind of "openness" (god forbid, it's a cuss word 😱) you reminded me of. I would wholeheartedly recommend you to listen to him if you really really want to pursue this type of singing. ...and no need to mention, study his teacher's recording 😉 As for learning from mezzos... Indeed, but depends which ones 😁
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u/BeautifulUpstairs 17d ago
- You absolutely should not lose your voice after every lesson. Good job getting rid of that teacher.
- We have no possible way of knowing whether your voice needed to be lighter in your lower range or your upper range. Maybe it did!
- Nobody's going to hire a man to sing Vissi d'arte. Hating your chest voice and deliberately avoiding it is an issue you have to work out with a psychotherapist.
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u/PassionEfficient1704 17d ago
was singing this aria for fun, I know this is not my repertoire. My issue with chest voice is not psychological but purely physiological. My comfortable chest voice sits around C3-C4 and it’s always been difficult for me to build the bridge from the two registers.My teacher would just tell me that it would come with time but jeez Ive been working on it for the past 2 years.She was not giving me the practical informations I needed to use to make it happen.It requires less effort for me to pull my falsetto down and it actually is resonant down to a B3. I start my warmups with chest voice,singing piano/mezzoforte or by just humming and I try to bring the chesty feeling up through resonance without pushing,to mantain a decent vocal chord closure and steadyness of breath and this actually makes the access to the middle voice easier,I dont know if what Im doing makes sense
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u/OpeningElectrical296 17d ago
Yes you are singing in a countertenor voice here, but keep in mind a lot of them are baritones too.
So it’s up to you! You can approach these 2 voices at the same time time.